Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[del1962]

That's plagiarism. Page 17 of the Armstrong/Bruyneel/Stapleton handbook.


Kimmage logic says that a handful of men from one team cannot control/destroy the entire peloton for three weeks. The Wiggins/Froome transformations, Michael Freiburg's resurgence/dominance, the dodgy doc, the quick dismissals/transfers of people who might raise too many eyebrows once the goal was achieved, Tenerife, it would be illogical not to see a comparison to USPS.

The only thing that Kimmage say's is relevent is Leinders, but then why not compeare with Rabbobank (less shocj value I guess).

Does the dismissal of Julich really come under the hiding doping category though? And Tenerife (please spare me the bs about this seemingly magical island) it is almost asif Kimmage has spent to much time reading TheHog in the clinic.

 

[Galic Ho]

Wow!!

You go full *** with every post!!!

Love the paranoid 'sock puppet' attack. You don't realise how amusing that is from where I'm standing

Anyhoo, I am going to put you on ignore for two reasons. The first because you have nothing at all to say but you say it very loudly and secondly because there is no point trying to have a discussion with somebody as antagonistic as yourself.

Bye-bye!

Dude quit the lying and hit the block button. All you've managed to prove is that your word cannot be taken seriously. Want to know who also said EXACTLY the same thing to me and failed not once, not twice, but thrice to fail to carry through on? The guy who you're either a clone of, or who you're a sock puppet for. Coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences...you need to step your game up bro...

And yeah, in todays day and age, censorship is cowardly. It's always been cowardly. But I'll make an exception for you...after all, you thought LA had never tested positive. Someone like that needs some serious concessions granted...

 

[del1962]

I have a feeling Sky will underperform this season- not because of lack of talent-but to disipate a bit what the public & now the critics have already perceived on what's behind their success. They might play their cards on small races-but I doubt they'll risk another suspicions build up, following the LA case.....

If they are clean they won't try to disapate, though with Contador back it will be much tougher anyway

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Ah the Pharmstorng boy says Kimmage is right, what was it you were saying on another thread about wonderboy getting a bad deal, how did you feel about PK's question to Armstrong at the Tour of California, (the one with the guy who said he was only thinking about doping)

U really are a special one. Go read up a little bit before u accuse someone he is not and stop acting a ***, please.

But let me be polite and answer your total irrelevant question: Kimmage/Walsh and all the other anti Pharmstrong crusaders have been right from the start, I espacially like Walshe's statement on cancer and remission and being back. Does that suit you?

Really, you should learn to put things into context Del. Now hush and read up.

 

[sniper]

...Kimmage is of course dead right on Sky, we only need the smoking gun. It will come, it always comes.

hope you're right.
smoking gun didn't come with indurain, didn't come with sastre.
would not have come for contador if it weren't for a piece of meat.
brailsford is gathering people around him whose specialty it is to stay under the radar. That includes medical science and it includes maximally exploiting the intimidating shadow of sponsor Sky. UCI and ASO are in his pocket. He got rid of a lot of people who jeopardized the undertaking. Dan Hunt, another good move, imo.
Only chance I see is CCN. If the UCI falls, Sky is in trouble.
Wiggins being agitated by Kimmage is a sign on the wall.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sky (sponsor) is working behind the scenes to keep Phat in position.

Would be interesting if we could establish (commercial) links or shared interests between members of the 'independent' commission and sponsor Sky...

 

[hfer07]

Cowards always believe in censorship.

How big of you not to stomach your own blatant ignorance. I guess when one is a sock puppet for a known Pro Sky poster, or at token glance, appears to be their clone, running away and hiding is the bigger move. Chapeau to you. Some lessons really are too hard.

This guy is really going to get a ribbing here in the Clinic when 2013 racing is in full swing.

Censorship is rather for the ones in power to control what the masses need to know-the cowards are the ones swallowing every single thing of it without questioning-so I'd say yes- Sky is falling in the path of "censorship" to avoid the hard questions from the likes of Kimmage...

 

[Joachim]

That's plagiarism. Page 17 of the Armstrong/Bruyneel/Stapleton handbook.

How is your first order logic? This is what you've effectively expressed:

(∃x*∈*S*:*φ(x))*→*(∀x*∈*S*:*φ(x))

What you say is true, but the association you are trying to make is not.

So, to lighten the tone a little and introduce a little humour, allow me to behave like a Clinic regular for a moment...

Ha Ha! Look at all the Kimmage fanboys jumping up and down!! Ha ha ha!

Ooh, that's better. Had to get that one off my chest

 

[del1962]

At the end of the day, I live in a country where it doesn't rain non stop. I can count without needing to take off my socks and I can freely question anything I want and draw my own conclusions. But to top it all off, I also have a very, very good memory and don't make silly gaffs about basic info and then get upset when I am corrected.

Also I am really, really, really good at Gears of War, among other random things. So yeah, proud enough to be able to laugh at myself. At least you can reply to people without running away like a coward. That's braver than blocking the person pointing out your faults. Unfortunately, to those who don't know, this isn't Facebook, YouTube or XBox LIVE. You really can't block people. One can still find you in cyberspace... Not that I am stalking you.

You may be able to count with your socks on, but you also seem to have the ingrained need insult peopleyou have never met and know nothing about. And to do such a task in as many words as possible

 

[sniper]

I have a feeling Sky will underperform this season- not because of lack of talent-but to disipate a bit what the public & now the critics have already perceived on what's behind their success. They might play their cards on small races-but I doubt they'll risk another suspicions build up, following the LA case.....

have thought of this as well.
Brailsford does look like a decent strategist to me.
At least decent enough to fool Joe Average and the whole of Brittain.

Sky MUST have learned something from the lance files.
Recall for instance the Sky spokesman stressing recently that "no donations or financial payments of any kind have been made to any institution involved in cycling". He wasn't asked about this, nota bene.

 

[thehog]

Its not about me though, don't forget that

In this particular case it is about you.

 

[andy1234]

At the end of the day, I live in a country where it doesn't rain non stop. I can count without needing to take off my socks and I can freely question anything I want and draw my own conclusions. But to top it all off, I also have a very, very good memory and don't make silly gaffs about basic info and then get upset when I am corrected.

Also I am really, really, really good at Gears of War, among other random things. So yeah, proud enough to be able to laugh at myself. At least you can reply to people without running away like a coward. That's braver than blocking the person pointing out your faults. Unfortunately, to those who don't know, this isn't Facebook, YouTube or XBox LIVE. You really can't block people. One can still find you in cyberspace... Not that I am stalking you.

Save your keyboard...dude.

What you mean to say in most of your posts is this.....

I'm very angry, grrrrr, and am convinced everyone is less intelligent than me. Oh and I'm very angry....Very


Lots easier to type, but with all the important content.

Glad to help until the therapist arrives.

Xx

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Save your keyboard...dude.

What you mean to say in most of your posts is this.....

I'm very angry, grrrrr, and am convinced everyone is less intelligent than me. Oh and I'm very angry....Very


Lots easier to type, but with all the important content.

Glad to help until the therapist arrives.

Xx

I'm sure Gallic has made too many references to "a country where it always rains" for it to be a coincidence. I think you could join the dots and add "and I don't like Great Britain" to the above otherwise excellent and concise summary of Gallic's thinking. Though he could just have a thing about New Zealand I suppose.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

I am clsoing this thread while I clean it out. Deletions ae being made and warnings will be given, if not suspensions.

Do not take the debate to another thread. Everybody cool off and calm down.

Susan

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Re-opening this thread. Suspensions and warnings have been handed out.

Respect the forum rules or face the consequences.

Susan

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Would be interesting if we could establish (commercial) links or shared interests between members of the 'independent' commission and sponsor Sky...

Are you talking of the bio - pass panel?

Here we go:
http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/04/new-biological-passport-panel-created-in-lausanne/

lol

 

[Mellow Velo]

let's talk dan hunt.

new sky ds.

took him just 2.5 years and alot of 'enthusiasm' to turn donkeys into race horses:

Now, I know for a fact this is total rubbish.
Dani and Laura; young and talented, not donkeys.
Elinor Barker, 18, world junior ITT champ waiting in the wings.

 

[Benotti69]

Basically, it's a re-hash of the exact same stuff from a few weeks ago, qualified for legal reasons with a big, "I don't know".
Sounds to me as if he's:
a) Challenging Sky to give him some of the power data/ascent times (i.e. do his work for him) and Wiggins/Froome's Tour blood values.
b) Still miffed at not getting his VIP seat on the Sky Tour bus.
c) Still looking for a job.

Do you have a problem with Kimmage or do you prefer the 'idea' of a clean Sky to remain intact and not investigated in depth?

If i was a fan of Sky i would be imploring them to do everything in their power to help prove they are clean and not knocking those, like Kimmage who question Sky.

Sky fans are repeating the mistakes Armstrong's fans made, believing the myth and not questioning the 'dots' that point to doping.

 

[Mellow Velo]

let's talk dan hunt.

new sky ds.

took him just 2.5 years and alot of 'enthusiasm' to turn donkeys into race horses:

The donkeys you refer to being Rebecca Romero, Wendy Houvenaghel and current world record holder, Jo Rowsell?

Do you have a problem with Kimmage or do you prefer the 'idea' of a clean Sky to remain intact and not investigated in depth?

Has he not said this all before?
Do you not think he's after internal data?
I have no issue, but don't think his method will be productive.

 

[MatParker117]

I have a feeling Sky will underperform this season- not because of lack of talent-but to disipate a bit what the public & now the critics have already perceived on what's behind their success. They might play their cards on small races-but I doubt they'll risk another suspicions build up, following the LA case.....

There win total will go down no matter what with the loss of Cavendish.

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>


Has he not said this all before?
Do you not think he's after internal data?
I have no issue, but don't think his method will be productive.

He has said this all before but that is hardly his fault if he is asked this by a German publication. CN just copy and paste what they can scrounge around for.

But he doesn't believe Sky's spin and PR, that is obvious. So he will keep asking the qustions about them. Same way Walsh kept asking about Armstrong.

Cycling did not become clean in 2006, nor since and people who believe that really are kidding themselves. La Vuelta in 2012 showed that, I say that TdF 2012 was not clean either, katusha not getting a WT license with J-Rod up there all year tells us that too, Boonen's amazing spring, Gilberts amazing 2011 with the same Doc as Boonen. All these things point to cycling not being clean at the podium end.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

There win total will go down no matter what with the loss of Cavendish.

So next year we will see a train of 8 in front of Wiggo? Let's go total POSTAL...

Sky fans are repeating the mistakes Armstrong's fans made, believing the myth and not questioning the 'dots' that point to doping.

But they are tested 300 times a year, what else can they do?



Same old sh@t. Different shirts. And, the same groupies of course.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The only thing that Kimmage say's is relevent is Leinders, but then why not compeare with Rabbobank (less shocj value I guess).

Does the dismissal of Julich really come under the hiding doping category though? And Tenerife (please spare me the bs about this seemingly magical island) it is almost asif Kimmage has spent to much time reading TheHog in the clinic.

Because he's comparing the riding style. How many GTs did Rabobank destroy with four or five people on the front of every stage for two weeks? Maybe parts of the 2007 Tour before Rasmussen was kicked out, and maybe the 2007 Vuelta at a push. Sky rode the race like Banesto or USPS. The Banesto reference is a much longer time ago and also less familiar to the target audience, either Anglophone or German (many fans were turned on to the sport in Germany thanks to Ulle, and even if they remember the early days of Telekom, the endless heartbreak for Jan at Armstrong's hands will be fresh in the memory), and what's more, Sky had been asking for comparisons to USPS earlier in the season, dropping hints that this was the style they were looking for. And they got comparisons to USPS... not just in the way they wanted them. There are real positives and negatives to be taken from the USPS comparison; Sky were asking for the positive ones and ill-equipped for dealing with being given the negative ones.

 

[badboygolf16v]

What could Wiggo do to help prove his innicence.Obviously he wouldn't hand over all his data to someone like Kimmage.What he could do his hand over his data to a respected doping scientist for analysis.Not a celebrity scientist like Ashenden, but someone who doesn't seek the limelight and is only well known within his field.

Celebrity scientist seeking the limelight?

What planet do you live on.

No ****er knows who Ashenden is only cycling geeks like you and I.

 

[The Tibetan Hat]

I have a feeling Sky will underperform this season- not because of lack of talent-but to disipate a bit what the public & now the critics have already perceived on what's behind their success. They might play their cards on small races-but I doubt they'll risk another suspicions build up, following the LA case.....

Yes, they will set out to lose races, that'll be what they do(?). Bet it's ridiculous posts like that which help Wiggo ignore all the sensible things that do get said here.

Shame Kimmage has gone down the road of speculation, really devalues his own stock and gives credence to his enemies. The strength of his journalism was nailing down the facts and evidence nobody else would talk about. With remarks like those in this interview he joins the rabble who talk too much, suspect a lot but don't actually seem to know anything of relevance. Good luck to him finding a job if that his game now.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Celebrity scientist seeking the limelight?

He is not entirely untrue, given the fact the bio pass is a hoax. Dope up to 132 but watch the controls. Just like 1997: stay within the 50% rule.

Ashenden helped setting up that new rule. If I am wrong please feel free to correct.