Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[BroDeal]

lol - wiggins was a multiple olympic gold medal winner in his early years and you call him a 'donkey'!!

and its well known that in his early tour years he wasnt in great physical shape and his training regime left a lot to be desired

This is what is called having your cake and eating it too. On one hand Wiggins was a great champion (when performing against chumps on the track). On the other hand he was lazy (which explains why he could never perform against all the top riders who went to the road because that is where the money is to be made.) Well, which is it?

I have a question for all those Skrybabies who point to Wiggins being a big fish in a very small pond as evidence of his talent. Where are all the riders he barely beat on the track? How many GTs have they won? Surely a few of them, probably most, would not have been drunken, bone-idle gits like Wiggins when it came to racing on the road. If winning on the track is such a good indicator of road potential then what happened to the silver and gold medalists who placed just behind Wiggins?

 

[thehog]

The chapter has been written; Porte was promised PN and Froome was allowed to pad his stats/palmares (to solidify any claims of his innate talent) and to get the season going with a nice TA.

Froome 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEGpv0xn0E8

07:27 then 7:55 and lol @ 8:14... 8:15 Bilharzia hits him in the face. (Also wonderful footage of Menchov, he who only wants to talk about cycling. If I remember correctly, he never had much to say about cycling either. "no, yes, well, no")

The 450 program will be dialed back around September. Get used to a whiff of blue among all the black.

Ahhh yes!

Sideways Froomedawg!

 

[Bala Verde]

Apparently yes. The only thing that can proxy-detect this is the blood passport (as hematocrit levels will rise which is of course testable in itself) but there is a workaround for that: simply tell everyone that you're training at altitude and possibly only use the pills after altitude training, simply to maintain the higher hematocrit that the body produces when at altitude.

For the record, it is a product similar to this in working: http://pharmalicensing.com/public/o...-of-erythropoietin-levels-in-anaemic-patients

Is that not an explanation why they have to perform at the highest level all year round. Otherwise you'd see anomalies/unexplainable variations? You basically need to establish a different baseline?

 

[thehog]

See Ferryman this is baiting. Know the difference

Sky are clean & dominating. You should be happy, no?

 

[thehog]

To amend my previous post (which so far hasn't been answered):

I have no hesitation believing, that if there's a real "program" at Sky, that they don't worry about the controls - whether their stuff is undetectable or they are protected, both options would be highly plausible.

But USPS wasn't taken down by the testers, and neither was Festina or Fuentes. What got them were police investigations and witness testimony. And I don't see what protects Sky from either.

Thom Weisel probably didn't and doesn't give a **** about being associated with doping, beyond what it costs him financially, and the only thing Bruyneel cares about is being allowed to continue working in cycling. But I don't think the same goes for Brailsford or even Wiggins (for Froome the risk would probably be worth it).

Call me naive if you want, but I don't think the people at Sky would be willing to put all that on the line just for a trophy.

Which is why they hired Lienders, yes?

 

[willbick]

This is what is called having your cake and eating it too. On one hand Wiggins was a great champion (when performing against chumps on the track). On the other hand he was lazy (which explains why he could never perform against all the top riders who went to the road because that is where the money is to be made.) Well, which is it?

I have a question for all those Skrybabies who point to Wiggins being a big fish in a very small pond as evidence of his talent. Where are all the riders he barely beat on the track? How many GTs have they won? Surely a few of them, probably most, would not have been drunken, bone-idle gits like Wiggins when it came to racing on the road. If winning on the track is such a good indicator of road potential then what happened to the silver and gold medalists who placed just behind Wiggins?

the guys who finished 2nd behind wiggins on the track were beaten by miles coz wiggins was way better than them. im sure they cudda become half decent road riders but nowhere near wiggins' class

 

[Lanark]

To amend my previous post (which so far hasn't been answered):

I have no hesitation believing, that if there's a real "program" at Sky, that they don't worry about the controls - whether their stuff is undetectable or they are protected, both options would be highly plausible.

But USPS wasn't taken down by the testers, and neither was Festina or Fuentes. What got them were police investigations and witness testimony. And I don't see what protects Sky from either.

Thom Weisel probably didn't and doesn't give a **** about being associated with doping, beyond what it costs him financially, and the only thing Bruyneel cares about is being allowed to continue working in cycling. But I don't think the same goes for Brailsford or even Wiggins (for Froome the risk would probably be worth it).

Call me naive if you want, but I don't think the people at Sky would be willing to put all that on the line just for a trophy.

I disagree. Maybe Brailsford could 'lose' something if the whole dirty story comes out, although that's even assuming his whole legacy isn't build on doping. The rest of the Team Sky entourage aren't known enough to really risk any reputation damage, they don't have a reputation.

But when it comes to the riders, if their improvement is due to doping, they made (and will make) a fortune by it. If Wiggins hadn't turned into a GC rider he would be earing 60k a year at Cofidis, Froome the same. These guys are settled for their lives, even if everyting would come out, they'd still have 10 million in the bank. Hardly a tough choice.

 

[The Hitch]

Looks like we have two new additions to Sky's "WTF?" list in Dario Cataldo and David Lopez.

Ill wait a few more months to find out if Kreuziger was injured or something, before i start laughing at how Dario Cataldo absolutely cracked gt contender turned superdom Roman Kreuziger, in the early kilometers of the climb.

 

[willbick]

the only reason team sky exists is coz road cycling is broadly clean now. Brailsford wasnt involved in road cycling in the 90s/2000s coz drugs were rife and he wasnt interested in being a part of it.

 

[Netserk]

Call me naive if you want, but I don't think the people at Sky would be willing to put all that on the line just for money.

Changed 'a trophy' to 'money'.

And yes, I'd call you naive if you don't think there are people who through criminal activities risk their reputation to earn money. Lots of money.

 

[The Hitch]

Genuine question:

Does anyone know about Sky 'scouting' system.

They check which riders scored high on the UCI suspicion index from the 2010 Tour and sign them,

 

[The Hitch]

kelly is certainly aware of what is happening, he must be other wise he is as dumb as a rock.

TBF to kelly hes not a hypocrite about it. He plays down doping in general and doesnt discriminate against any riders for it.

 

[thehog]

Changed 'a trophy' to 'money'.

And yes, I'd call you naive if you don't think there are people who through criminal activities risk their reputation to earn money. Lots of money.

And of course the same owners who 'allowed' the hacking of phones to sell newspapers wouldn't get themselves involved in such things like doping... if it meant winning and selling 'the product'.

 

[spalco]

Which is why they hired Lienders, yes?

I don't have an answer to that, but it doesn't fundamentally change what I said. In fact, if Brailsford had known about Leinders what we know now at the time he was hired, he should have been even more scared about Leinders eventually spilling the beans about the Sky "program".

I disagree. Maybe Brailsford could 'lose' something if the whole dirty story comes out, although that's even assuming his whole legacy isn't build on doping. The rest of the Team Sky entourage aren't known enough to really risk any reputation damage, they don't have a reputation.

But when it comes to the riders, if their improvement is due to doping, they made (and will make) a fortune by it. If Wiggins hadn't turned into a GC rider he would be earing 60k a year at Cofidis, Froome the same. These guys are settled for their lives, even if everyting would come out, they'd still have 10 million in the bank. Hardly a tough choice.

And what does Sivtsov earn, what does Hayman earn, or Henao?

The suggestion in this thread is, that they are all in on it, basically. That's why they are so strong as a team.

I (figurately "I", not me personally) might rob a bank if I have a 50:50 chance of getting away with it or whatever. But if the chance is 10:90? The higher the risk of detection, the higher the possible reward has to be. And the risk for everybody at Sky would be immense if what most of the people in this thread are suggesting is true.

 

[willbick]

blah blah - the day any sky rider gives an unnaturally high watts/kg performance i'll eat my hat

 

[The Hitch]

I agree.

The rest of the peloton is not stupid. Most of them know how to train, recover and eat well.

Like a lot of people on this forum, I have my doubts about Froome. I hope he's clean. I've followed pro cycling for the last 25 years and when something looks too good to be true it's usually been proven to be.

If Froome had top 10d a stage like this that would be too good to be true (considering how recently Bailsford labelled him not even a wt quality rider)

to win the stage like that is well past "too good to be true"

 

[Pandora]

i dunno exactly what is role is but he finished 6 secs in front of Griepel ffs. You really think he was busting a gut?? lol

Somehow I cannot imagine Riis paying him to softpedal at a respectable race while he could at least collect some points for the team.

If I remember well, last year at the Tour, after helping Wiggins 2/3 of the climbs (your words) and taking it easy afterwards he still finished 20th-something. And where is he standing now? I don't believe Riis put him in the team just to fill in the number.

 

[thehog]

Ahhh yes!

Sideways Froomedawg!

See the guy in the distance going sideways uphill?

In two years time from this photo he would fly past Contador like he was standing still.

That's some improvement.

 

[willbick]

Somehow I cannot imagine Riis paying him to softpedal at a respectable race while he could at least collect some points for the team.

If I remember well, last year at the Tour, after helping Wiggins 2/3 of the climbs (your words) and taking it easy afterwards he still finished 20th-something. And where is he standing now? I don't believe Riis put him in the team just to fill in the number.

so basically you are saying that the best Rogers can do on a big mountain stage is to beat Griepel by 6 seconds??!!! this is hilarious

 

[The Hitch]

Meh. who cares about boring facts when you can just waffle tedious bullsh1t innuendo based on nothing?

oh oh oh oh .

Hold up a sec.

You think continental level bottle carrier Chris Froome ripping out 5.9 watts on a mtf is an argument in your favour?

Thats like someone who got 0 out of 20 on a spelling test, showing the results sheet as evidence that they are good at english.

 

[BroDeal]

This guy is trolling, not inobviously either.

 

[the sceptic]

See the guy in the distance going sideways uphill?

In two years time from this photo he would fly past Contador like he was standing still.

That's some improvement.

Froome was doing 5.9w/kg that day. Its just that everyone else slowed down

 

[cocteau_ireland]

Just for the record,almost certain I was first to use term Skyborg. So proud they are consuming every living thing in their path

 

[Robert21]

One thing is for sure, back in 2011 not even Brailsford rated either Wiggins (BW- World Tour podium rider but on a downward trajectory) or Froome (CF - a 'borderline' rider)...

"As you get older, the potential for improvement disappears". Dave Brailsford, 2011

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/features/inside-the-mind-of-dave-brailsford/

 

[Froome19]

So. The rest of the peloton do not manage to get their basics right? Damn people like Riis are such incompetent managers even when being involved for more than 20 years in the sport.

Pretty amazing too, that Froome couldnt get the basics right before 2011 either, and now indirectly slams the opposition.

But how come Sky's riders are evidently all in form, dope or no dope?
Whilst Saxo's riders are not?

Sky's may be better, but nevertheless I refuse to believe that "Sky's special programme" aided Michael Rogers that drastically etc