Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[thehog]

why are all their riders producing 'clean' watts/kg performances if they are doped?

Whats a 'clean' watt? Why are their riders killing the field and dropping GT winners?

Stop being ridiculous.

 

[the sceptic]

why are all their riders producing 'clean' watts/kg performances if they are doped?

if my grandmother does 5.9 w/kg tomorrow will you believe it?

 

[Pandora]

of course rogers is nowhere - just like he was nowhere when he was on the sky train. have u ever bothered to notice where Rogers finished stages when he was on the sky train? minutes back, coz he only could ride his *** off for like 2/3 of a climb and then he'd die and pull off and ride up the rest slowly

O-key, so he was supposed to be with Contador today for the first 10 km of the last climb and then be allowed to drop from the leading group 4-5 km before the finish and loose few minutes.

However, he was nowhere to be seen during the climb and lost more than 17 minutes. It reminds me of Little Richie from the pre-Sky era. Riis obviously doesn't know how to get the basics of his team right, while Brailsford....

 

[willbick]

he was nowhere to be seen and lost 17 mins coz it wasnt his job in this stage to lead anyone up the climb so he obviously took it easy. are u seriously suggesting he couldnt finish closer than 17 mins to Froome if he was trying??

 

[Robert21]

why are all their riders producing 'clean' watts/kg performances if they are doped?

A meaningless statement, given that it assumes Froome, Wiggins et al. just happen to naturally have the highest theoretical possible V02 max and so forth that it is possible for a human to have, or close to it. The question is not 'Could some human being perform at such a level clean?' Rather it is, 'Could Froome / Wiggins perform at such a level clean? Especially given what we know of their previous history.

Further, to take Wiggins, if he has such natural ability, then it is rather hard to explain why not so long ago he was 'losing an hour a day' in the Tour. Historically, riders with such exceptional talent usually win their first grand Tour, or at least clearly demonstrate their ability to do so. The ' Tour donkeys becoming racehorses' phenomenon exemplified by the likes of Riis, Indurain and Armstrong (and now Wiggins) is closely associated with the benefits bestowed by Epo and blood doping.

 

[BroDeal]

One thing has become clear with Armstrong and Sky. The bigger the doper, the lower the mental bandwidth of their fans. It is not that they believe their guy is clean; it's that they are too ignorant and dumb to see the obvious.

Maybe the rule only holds for English speaking countries, but I suspect it is universal.

 

[willbick]

lol - wiggins was a multiple olympic gold medal winner in his early years and you call him a 'donkey'!!

and its well known that in his early tour years he wasnt in great physical shape and his training regime left a lot to be desired

 

[bigcog]

One thing has become clear with Armstrong and Sky. The bigger the doper, the lower the mental bandwidth of their fans. It is not that they believe their guy is clean; it's that they are too ignorant and dumb to see the obvious.

Maybe the rule only holds for English speaking countries, but I suspect it is universal.

Where does that leave spanish, italian and dutch cycling fans then ?

 

[willbick]

how u can compare amstrong to SKY is laughable. armstrong was regularly producing another 0.5 watts/kg than any sky rider ever has

 

[Lanark]

there are 100s of riders who could have performed the role that Rogers did for the Sky train

Now I'm confinced that you are a joke character and just trying to make fun of Sky fans.

 

[Netserk]

Now I'm confinced that you are a joke character and just trying to make fun of Sky fans.

Wonderlance sockpuppet?

 

[peloton]

lol - wiggins was a multiple olympic gold medal winner in his early years and you call him a 'donkey'!!

and its well known that in his early tour years he wasnt in great physical shape and his training regime left a lot to be desired

This is getting embarrassing dude, do some reading about road cycling and take the blinders off while you're at it, just a friendly advise.

 

[Pandora]

he was nowhere to be seen and lost 17 mins coz it wasnt his job in this stage to lead anyone up the climb so he obviously took it easy. are u seriously suggesting he couldnt finish closer than 17 mins to Froome if he was trying??

In that case please explain what do you think was his job today. And in this race generally.

 

[willbick]

you're the embarrassment here dude. guess u just dont like British riders dominating

 

[JimmyFingers]

You haven't missed anything and you know it. If you want to keep coming on here and defending the indefensible good for you but cut out the baiting.

Are you saying that as an administrator, or as a partisan member of this board, because I take exception to being told I'm baiting people when I was trying to illustrate that Froome hadn't even taken the leader's jersey against a backdrop of increasing exaggeration over what he had done today.

I suggest you work harder to separate your administrative hat and your feelings about the subject in future, and talk to members in a less aggressive manner.

 

[Robert21]

lol - wiggins was a multiple olympic gold medal winner in his early years and you call him a 'donkey'!!

A 'Tour donkey', the sort of rider who, to use Wiggins' own words, 'lost an hour a day' in the mountains. Just as Armstrong did before he got on a full-blown, Ferrari managed Epo/ blood doping regime.

 

[spalco]

To amend my previous post (which so far hasn't been answered):

I have no hesitation believing, that if there's a real "program" at Sky, that they don't worry about the controls - whether their stuff is undetectable or they are protected, both options would be highly plausible.

But USPS wasn't taken down by the testers, and neither was Festina or Fuentes. What got them were police investigations and witness testimony. And I don't see what protects Sky from either.

Thom Weisel probably didn't and doesn't give a **** about being associated with doping, beyond what it costs him financially, and the only thing Bruyneel cares about is being allowed to continue working in cycling. But I don't think the same goes for Brailsford or even Wiggins (for Froome the risk would probably be worth it).

Call me naive if you want, but I don't think the people at Sky would be willing to put all that on the line just for a trophy.

 

[thehog]

Are you saying that as an administrator, or as a partisan member of this board, because I take exception to being told I'm baiting people when I was trying to illustrate that Froome hadn't even taken the leader's jersey against a backdrop of increasing exaggeration over what he had done today.

I suggest you work harder to separate your administrative hat and your feelings about the subject in future, and talk to members in a less aggressive manner.

Jimmy you'd never bait anyone would you! Haha!

Put it back in your pants and calm down.

Your boys are winning everything. Be happy.

 

[Red Rick]

my guess is that they have gene doped wiggins and froome, and are blood doping the foreign riders.
But there are hundreds of theories which could be the right one. The only one we can dismiss for sure is - they are clean.

How would that work? taking RNA strains?

 

[Bala Verde]

The chapter has been written; Porte was promised PN and Froome was allowed to pad his stats/palmares (to solidify any claims of his innate talent) and to get the season going with a nice TA.

Froome 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEGpv0xn0E8

07:27 then 7:55 and lol @ 8:14... 8:15 Bilharzia hits him in the face. (Also wonderful footage of Menchov, he who only wants to talk about cycling. If I remember correctly, he never had much to say about cycling either. "no, yes, well, no")

The 450 program will be dialed back around September. Get used to a whiff of blue among all the black.

 

[JimmyFingers]

To amend my previous post (which so far hasn't been answered):

I have no hesitation believing, that if there's a real "program" at Sky, that they don't worry about the controls - whether their stuff is undetectable or they are protected, both options would be highly plausible.

But USPS wasn't taken down by the testers, and neither was Festina or Fuentes. What got them were police investigations and witness testimony. And I don't see what protects Sky from either.

Thom Weisel probably didn't and doesn't give a **** about being associated with doping, beyond what it costs him financially, and the only thing Bruyneel cares about is being allowed to continue working in cycling. But I don't think the same goes for Brailsford or even Wiggins (for Froome the risk would probably be worth it).

Call me naive if you want, but I don't think the people at Sky would be willing to put all that on the line just for a trophy.

Solid analysis +1

 

[willbick]

In that case please explain what do you think was his job today. And in this race generally.

i dunno exactly what is role is but he finished 6 secs in front of Griepel ffs. You really think he was busting a gut?? lol

 

[JimmyFingers]

Jimmy you'd never bait anyone would you! Haha!

Put it back in your pants and calm down.

Your boys are winning everything. Be happy.

See Ferryman this is baiting. Know the difference

 

[the sceptic]

Poor Jimmy, posting in this forum against his will. If only there were some more sky friendly forums out there so he didnt have to hear all this doping talk.

 

[willbick]

To amend my previous post (which so far hasn't been answered):

I have no hesitation believing, that if there's a real "program" at Sky, that they don't worry about the controls - whether their stuff is undetectable or they are protected, both options would be highly plausible.

But USPS wasn't taken down by the testers, and neither was Festina or Fuentes. What got them were police investigations and witness testimony. And I don't see what protects Sky from either.

Thom Weisel probably didn't and doesn't give a **** about being associated with doping, beyond what it costs him financially, and the only thing Bruyneel cares about is being allowed to continue working in cycling. But I don't think the same goes for Brailsford or even Wiggins (for Froome the risk would probably be worth it).

Call me naive if you want, but I don't think the people at Sky would be willing to put all that on the line just for a trophy.

good to see someone on here has half a brain