Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[JimmyFingers]

its not that sky won a stage.

Its that Froome won the queen mtf stage by flying away from Contador like he did in Oman.

Froome. He could win the next 10 tdfs and in 2023 if he is winning mountain stages we will still not accept that that is his place in the peloton.

Swings and roundabouts. Rodriguez won the stage after, and Nibali has just set up the overall win, both by flying away from Contador. And Froome sneaked the win with a last minute attack at Prati di Tivo, only winning by six seconds and putting about 20 seconds into Contador.

But I'll concede its not so much that Froome is doing these things, more that is on this level at all, at the sharp end of races like this.

 

[autologous]

except today the entire team cracked and lost control of the race. The same team that was supposedly taking some new secret undetectable EPO drug. Looked pretty human today.

Blood, EPO & aicar will not help you descend in the rain.

No amount of drug fueled robotic marginal gained nose glued to the power meter "riding" will help when real cycling ability gets a chance to shine.

This is just a tiny bump in sky's road, the exception that proves the rule. Unfortunately the grand tour stage profiles are set to reward UKpostal's marginal rhythms.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Blood, EPO & aicar will not help you descend in the rain.

No amount of drug fueled robotic marginal gained nose glued to the power meter "riding" will help when real cycling ability gets a chance to shine.

This is just a tiny bump in sky's road, the exception that proves the rule. Unfortunately the grand tour stage profiles are set to reward UKpostal's marginal rhythms.

And winner of the most original post of the day goes to.....

 

[airstream]

Im half British. I dont care where people come from i only care what type of person they are. That said I wanted Brits to do well to increase the profile of the sport here, but Bailsfords and wiggins lies dishonesty is unacceptable. Wouldnt cheer for them if they were kin.

Thanks. I understand you. I just want to say in my view forum members rely on the past too much. And say people who started watching in 2011-12 see the things absolutely differently compared to us. Not more right and not more wrong, just differently, because in such utterly disputable matters truth is always in the middle.

Anyone of us, forumities, has its own vision how a rider should grow, improve, gain high results. Sometimes these visions are similar sometimes not, but the main contradiction is that Froome and Wiggins both don't match these improvised scheme — scheme of how a rider should improve and progressiveness is a main factor here. Nonetheless, guys like Froome [yeh, probably not to often and not such bright ones] will always hit the picture, because there is no unified programmed model according sportsmen improve. It is the case in sport and in real life. A great talent often can not find himself. It is a very wide-spread situation. Naturally, one can remember Contador or someone else and their breakthrough and say 'they were talented', yes, but there are no untalented people on such a high level. It is an axiom. Simply one is a little bit more talented and other is a lil bit less talented.

As to doping, yes, Sky are lying as all their winning predecessors. Though, as we see they have their weaknessess too. But I don't see a big difference between LA's, AC's and Sky ways of behaviour from ethical viewpoint.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Swings and roundabouts. Rodriguez won the stage after, and Nibali has just set up the overall win, both by flying away from Contador. And Froome sneaked the win with a last minute attack at Prati di Tivo, only winning by six seconds and putting about 20 seconds into Contador.

But I'll concede its not so much that Froome is doing these things, more that is on this level at all, at the sharp end of races like this.

20 seconds in one km is a lot

 

[lemoogle]

And winner of the most original post of the day goes to.....

If that's not plain baiting then someone please show me what is.

What really scares me is how sky fanatics(excuse me for the strong word) with their "where is your proof" comments... ONLY defend sky over the course of the year. Seems to me more of a passionate nationalistic defense.

 

[JimmyFingers]

If that's not plain baiting then someone please show me what is.

What really scares me is how sky fanatics(excuse me for the strong word) with their "where is your proof" comments... ONLY defend sky over the course of the year. Seems to me more of a passionate nationalistic defense.

No amount of drug fueled robotic marginal gained nose glued to the power meter "riding" will help when real cycling ability gets a chance to shine.

And what do you call this? Objective, constructive, adding anything to the debate whatsoever? I could have said all those things, but choose to cut to the chase. I suggest you pick your fights if you're going to defend that sort of post and call me a fanatic.

 

[will10]

Close the thread guys. It seems that today's performance from Froome makes his performances since August 2011 clean. Chapeau to Sky for running such a tight ship.

 

[RoysRovers]

Blood, EPO & aicar will not help you descend in the rain.

No amount of drug fueled robotic marginal gained nose glued to the power meter "riding" will help when real cycling ability gets a chance to shine.

This is just a tiny bump in sky's road, the exception that proves the rule. Unfortunately the grand tour stage profiles are set to reward UKpostal's marginal rhythms.

Typical clinic bs, ignoring the fact that the 3 man winning group went clear on the climb & that the chase brought back some time on the descent because it doesn't fit your narrative. Are you just hoping people don't watch the races?

 

[lemoogle]

And what do you call this? Objective, constructive, adding anything to the debate whatsoever? I could have said all those things, but choose to cut to the chase. I suggest you pick your fights if you're going to defend that sort of post and call me a fanatic.

Do you realise that your comment I called baiting was you pretty much insulting another comment and hence your response is to insult another? Those comments no matter how much they added to the debate were on topic.

I usually just read on here but I'm a little tired of hearing those "The clinic calls doping without proof" comments, well the way I see it proof is required when showing something outside of the norm.
And what is the norm in cycling over the last 20 years? is it clean teams dominating or even clean teams at all? Certainly not.
Why should we assume something out of the norm? Especially when sky fits the bill even more than any team has before. At this point it's not even up to the clinic to find proof that Sky are doping, it's up to you and sky to prove that they ARE clean.

And let's be clear on that, Sky could do SO MUCH to prove to us that they are clean, like publishing test results etc. Yet nothing has been done... except repeating the USPS playbook of marginal gains, cadence, training etc. Please,
what's ridiculous is not us calling them dopers without proof, it's them and others calling them clean without proof ( and that is much simpler proof with only good outcomes possible ).

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Seems Chris just was cold, had 'an Ullrich'. He will be back in buisiness tomorrow, do not worry.

Cheers for the Nibbles, this was cycling.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Do you realise that your comment I called baiting was you pretty much insulting another comment and hence your response is to insult another? Those comments no matter how much they added to the debate were on topic.

I usually just read on here but I'm a little tired of hearing those "The clinic calls doping without proof" comments, well the way I see it proof is required when showing something outside of the norm.
And what is the norm in cycling over the last 20 years? is it clean teams dominating or even clean teams at all? Certainly not.
Why should we assume something out of the norm? Especially when sky fits the bill even more than any team has before. At this point it's not even up to the clinic to find proof that Sky are doping, it's up to you and sky to prove that they ARE clean.

And let's be clear on that, Sky could do SO MUCH to prove to us that they are clean, like publishing test results etc. Yet nothing has been done... except repeating the USPS playbook of marginal gains, cadence, training etc. Please,
what's ridiculous is not us calling them dopers without proof, it's them and others calling them clean without proof ( and that is much simpler proof with only good outcomes possible ).

Nice post...

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Ah, mr Rujano 10 watts per kilo for 8 minutes and henao can win Pairs Roubaix.

Welcome.

Your contributions are always entertaining.

ps, how did it feel to watch that "pathetic" "overrated" joke of a rider Nibali tear the race apart today?

I never said that, but considering you find betaing someone by 8 seconds flying away I can see you don't take the truth very serious

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

The similarity between the US Postal and UK Postal groupies is absolutely amazing.

Same BS. Different decade.

 

[MartinGT]

I would like to see Libertine Seguros take on the last few days tbh. He has a good level head on him and value his posts.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I'm sure if Sky have won 200 stages, they've also lost a lot more

Solid thinking there. Guess you think Armstrong likewise was probably clean because he lost more stages than he won.

Golf clap.

 

[Escarabajo]

I want somebody in the Clinic to prove or have some certainty that Uran is doping.

- Power files
- Progression
- Results
- Early talent

I Have been following this guy since a while back can not find anything on him.

Please, other than relation with Sky or Movistar team.

Thanks.

PS: I just read lemoogle's post. I am doomed now. Good post.

 

[Benotti69]

Do you realise that your comment I called baiting was you pretty much insulting another comment and hence your response is to insult another? Those comments no matter how much they added to the debate were on topic.

I usually just read on here but I'm a little tired of hearing those "The clinic calls doping without proof" comments, well the way I see it proof is required when showing something outside of the norm.
And what is the norm in cycling over the last 20 years? is it clean teams dominating or even clean teams at all? Certainly not.
Why should we assume something out of the norm? Especially when sky fits the bill even more than any team has before. At this point it's not even up to the clinic to find proof that Sky are doping, it's up to you and sky to prove that they ARE clean.

And let's be clear on that, Sky could do SO MUCH to prove to us that they are clean, like publishing test results etc. Yet nothing has been done... except repeating the USPS playbook of marginal gains, cadence, training etc. Please,
what's ridiculous is not us calling them dopers without proof, it's them and others calling them clean without proof ( and that is much simpler proof with only good outcomes possible ).

Bingo.

Lets see them prove something is clean afters 25 years of doping.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I want somebody in the Clinic to prove or have the certainty that Uran is doping.

- Power files
- Progression
- Results
- Early talent

I Have been following this guy since a while back can not find anything on him.

Please, other than relation with Sky or Movistar team.

Thanks.

Nothing on Uran other than his CdE/Movi and Sky connection. What is interesting though is to compare Uran's palmares with Froome's.

Comparing those palmares, you'd think Froome should be carrying Uran's luggage, not to mention his bottles.

 

[sartoris]

Do you realise that your comment I called baiting was you pretty much insulting another comment and hence your response is to insult another? Those comments no matter how much they added to the debate were on topic.

I usually just read on here but I'm a little tired of hearing those "The clinic calls doping without proof" comments, well the way I see it proof is required when showing something outside of the norm.
And what is the norm in cycling over the last 20 years? is it clean teams dominating or even clean teams at all? Certainly not.
Why should we assume something out of the norm? Especially when sky fits the bill even more than any team has before. At this point it's not even up to the clinic to find proof that Sky are doping, it's up to you and sky to prove that they ARE clean.

And let's be clear on that, Sky could do SO MUCH to prove to us that they are clean, like publishing test results etc. Yet nothing has been done... except repeating the USPS playbook of marginal gains, cadence, training etc. Please,
what's ridiculous is not us calling them dopers without proof, it's them and others calling them clean without proof ( and that is much simpler proof with only good outcomes possible ).

Couldn't have expressed it better myself.

 

[will10]

I want somebody in the Clinic to prove or have some certainty that Uran is doping.

- Power files
- Progression
- Results
- Early talent

I Have been following this guy since a while back can not find anything on him.

Please, other than relation with Sky or Movistar team.

Thanks.

PS: I just read lemoogle's post. I am doomed now. Good post.

I think you'll find very few posts in this huge thread about Uran. And with good reason. He's not an outlier.

 

[BMCBikes]

The similarity between the US Postal and UK Postal groupies is absolutely amazing.

Same BS. Different decade.

I wanted to respond to this as you're absolutely correct. I WAS one of those US Postal / LA groupies. I believed it all, hook, line, and sinker. I WANTED to believe it. I could justify every single negative thing or accusation I heard to keep believing LA and US Postal were clean. Now I see the exact same thing from the SKY fans. They WANT to believe SKY is clean, but are igoring the past 20 years of proof that SKY really are just a newer version of USP. I look at SKY since the beginning of last year, and I see the exact same things I saw with USP, taken to an extraordinary level. As others have said....at this point, after 20 years of lying about doping, it's up to SKY to PROVE they ARE clean, and not simply mouth the same words we've all heard before protesting their innocence.

 

[BYOP88]

Solid thinking there. Guess you think Armstrong likewise was probably clean because he lost more stages than he won.

Golf clap.

this should work http://youtu.be/CP6v4T3VT7I

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I wanted to respond to this as you're absolutely correct. I WAS one of those US Postal / LA groupies. I believed it all, hook, line, and sinker. I WANTED to believe it. I could justify every single negative thing or accusation I heard to keep believing LA and US Postal were clean. Now I see the exact same thing from the SKY fans. They WANT to believe SKY is clean, but are igoring the past 20 years of proof that SKY really are just a newer version of USP. I look at SKY since the beginning of last year, and I see the exact same things I saw with USP, taken to an extraordinary level. As others have said....at this point, after 20 years of lying about doping, it's up to SKY to PROVE they ARE clean, and not simply mouth the same words we've all heard before protesting their innocence.

Thanks. Honestly, I was a huge Armstrong fan early on as well. The Simeoni incident was eye opening for me.

With regard to Froome, the guy was pack fodder before his sudden, meteoric rise.

Before 2011, his best finish was 36th in the Giro. Then he goes on to finish 2nd at the Vuelta and 2nd at the Tour. It's just laughable. This guy was zig-zagging up hills before, now he's a world-beater?

 

[thehog]

Thanks. Honestly, I was a huge Armstrong fan early on as well. The Simeoni incident was eye opening for me.

With regard to Froome, the guy was pack fodder before his sudden, meteoric rise.

Before 2011, his best finish was 36th in the Giro. Then he goes on to finish 2nd at the Vuelta and 2nd at the Tour. It's just laughable. This guy was zig-zagging up hills before, now he's a world-beater?

Did you see him attempt to take on Alberto on Sunday? He got a little aggressive there. Soon he’ll be chasing down Ag2R riders and taunting them.