- Apr 20, 2012
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http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/h2h.aspclassicomano said:
Pretty clear someone is training much harder, from 2011 onwards of course.
- Sep 29, 2012
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The Hitch said:
Cyclismas or someone need to do a McQuaid interview sp00f where someone asks him what he's doing after the Tour. You know, halfway through last year when he said, "I'm going to the Sky part- er I mean the winner's party then off to the Olympics".
Coz it seems fait accompli and I want someone to point it out like that, all obvious like n stuff.
thehog said:
take a note of the time for that effort. The estimate for the entire climb:
25:41, 23.36 Kph, VAM 1607 m/h, 5.98 W/kg.
I know all the Sky haters go into histrionics about every Sky performance, but these aren't even the #s seen for last year's Tour.
Strange how these are the performances that get everyone upset when the week saw two riders powering away from fields in other races. Good thing Sagan and Cancellara aren't wearing blue and black.
thehog
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- Jul 27, 2009
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mastersracer said:
You're right. It's very strange. I don't know what everyone is thinking.
Their eyes must be deceiving them.
It's all clean. Fans of cycling here shouldn't worry about the last 20 years of doping. That's all changed.
The passport has out an end to doping.
Sky just train harder and can dominate by being clean.
In my view Sky are clean. Not one positive test on the team. Not one.
- Dec 27, 2010
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mastersracer said:
5.98w/kg would've got Froome 4th behind Armstrong, Beloki and Heras on La Mongie (a 27 minute climb) in the 2002 Tour, ahead of Mancebo, Rumsas, Sevilla and Basso.
It's as fast as Rasmussen, Menchov, Valverde, Cobo, Kashechkin, Mayo in the 2007 Tour.
And Contador, Sella, Ricco, Menchov, Pellizotti in the 2008 Giro.
And Kohl, Menchov, Schleck in the 2008 Tour.
And even the "untouchable" 2011 Giro Contador, only showed 6.0w/kg once in that race, and that was the 20 minute MTT up Nevegal. Even Etna was only 5.6w/kg.
In fact you'll be hard pressed to find many climbing performances north of 6.0w/kg on a comparable climb in a Grand Tour since 2007. Has cycling been clean for six years?
It's so refreshing to see clean riders on a clean team going as fast as all the dopers from 2007 - 2012. And in warm-up races to boot.
- Jul 21, 2012
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- Dec 27, 2010
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- Sep 29, 2012
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mastersracer said:
1. you seem a bit hard of reading, but trust me, if it was saxo, or movistar doing this, in multi-stage races, well below their peak, we would be taking them to task instead. so, it bears repeating, only coz you clearly have skin in the game: we hate doping and boring, predictable (noone else can win) multi-stage racing. Sky just happen to be the current king of the crop at producing that style of racing.
I would love a different team to do the same, simultaneously. It really does get old when Sky lovers get so upset that "everyone hates Sky" when it's patently untrue. If there were 2 teams dominating, it would be so easy to point at the 2 areas under discussion and say - uh no. Both teams cop flack because what they are doing is so obviously NOT NORMAL.
But whatever. Keep telling yourself it's just coz they are a British based team, or Sky or something.
Nothing to do with supernormal performances.2. there is a massive difference (if you can ever stop to consider it in your self-deluded "everyone hates my favourite team coz they are warming down" cave) between winning a classic you've peaked for - you know, a one day race with a whole week to taper before hand and a week to fine-tune / recover afterwards, and being 4 months out from your goal race and therefore still essentially doing base training, nowhere near a peak, and smashing the living snot out of every single rider, except your team mate, over multiple stages.
3. hardly anyone thinks Sagan or Cancellara are clean. there is no disagreement on this point. it's only the skybots or pommy come lately posters and sports scientists with dubious inside connections to the team that look at Sky and say - what's wrong with that!?
4. if they are putting out 6W/kg doing base, they are going to have no problem at all doing this and more in the tour, with more racing and interval training in the leadup to the goal races - Giro and Tour. No problem at all.
That you would actually say: in the Tour they were going better, given these races are 3-4 months away from the Tour, is really making me shake my head, dude. You are clearly smarter than that, what's the deal?
- Jul 21, 2012
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Just goes to show that sky must be on something special if they can make a donkey like Froome climb like the biggest dopers in the last 5-6 years, not to mention TT'ing better than Cancellara too.
will10 said:
----Criterium International, Col de l'Ospedale (last 10 km, 6.88 %, 688 m)
----ALL-TIME TOP 50 LIST
-1. Frank Schleck -------- LUX | 25:20 | 2011
-2. Pierrick Fedrigo ----- FRA | 25:30 | 2012
-3. Rinaldo Nocentini ---- ITA | 25:30 | 2012
-4. Lars Petter Nordhaug - NOR | 25:30 | 2012
-5. Cadel Evans ---------- AUS | 25:30 | 2012
-6. Vasili Kiryienka ----- BLR | 25:34 | 2011
-7. Chris Froome --------- GBR | 25:36 | 2013
-8. Guillaume Levarlet --- FRA | 25:38 | 2012
-9. Christophe Le Mevel -- FRA | 25:38 | 2012
10. Igor Anton ----------- FRA | 25:38 | 2012
Are these figures correct?
http://http://www.fillarifoorumi.fi/forum/showthread.php?38129-Ammattilaispy%F6r%E4ilij%F6iden-nousutietoja-%28aika-km-h-VAM-W-W-kg-etc-%29&p=1996897#post1996897
thehog said:
I agree. We see a lot of talk about the climbing speed being much lower, and how in the past everyone was producing 6.7 w/kg and now we're only producing 6, so tadaaaaa, everybody is clean.
Maybe riders aren't flying like Pantani did, or Armstrong on some of his best days, but the best climbers are barely slower than they were in 2006, 2007 and 2008, when we know that huge quantities of PED's were still used by some of the most notorious dopers of the last 10 years.
I'm willing to bet that in this year's Tour they'll be faster on the Alpe than they were in 2011.
To be fair, 6.08 W/kg for 44 min in the 3rd week of a GT is a notch above 6.08 W/kg for 23 min in a 3-day race.
martinvickers
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- Oct 15, 2012
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I have tried to stay out of this thread for as long as possible and I would also say that I am far open-minded on the issue of non-doping than your average SKY basher.
However it is frankly amazing to think that anyone can watch what SKY are currently doing and just regard it as normal. I have been seriously trying to think of another team that dominated races like SKY and the closest I can come up with is ONCE(90s era) who dominated countless stage races during the season but never performed in the Tour like SKY 2012.
The SKY defenders are trying to deflect focus by trying to drag Dan Martin into this but look at Martin's career, it looks completely normal. His winning a climbing stage from a break is hardly earth-shattering stuff especially when he has a 2nd, 2nd and 4th previously in this very race.
If you had asked anyone in 2008, who out of Martin, Wiggins and Froome was most likely to become a star, the answer would undoubtedly have been Martin and I think that is what SKY thought as well. Now even Porte is miles in front of Dan Martin. If Martin suddenly morphs into a TTer the way Wiggin's, Froome and Porte have morphed into their current guise's, then I will ask question's of Martin.
Frankly I have tried to give SKY as much leeway as possible but I find myself slipping towards the cynicism of many poster's who I normally would disagree with on the subject of doping. SKY just seem too good to be real. I await with baited breath to see what JTL pulls out of the hat when the Ardennes classics roll around.
Not alone are they just crushing races, they are making the racing thoroughly boring and this is something that would turn me off watching pro cycling in future. Mountain trains until a few Km's remaining, no thanks.
People can defend SKY all they want but at least have the decency to admit that this is not normal and has not really happened in pro cycling previously to this degree.
However it is frankly amazing to think that anyone can watch what SKY are currently doing and just regard it as normal. I have been seriously trying to think of another team that dominated races like SKY and the closest I can come up with is ONCE(90s era) who dominated countless stage races during the season but never performed in the Tour like SKY 2012.
The SKY defenders are trying to deflect focus by trying to drag Dan Martin into this but look at Martin's career, it looks completely normal. His winning a climbing stage from a break is hardly earth-shattering stuff especially when he has a 2nd, 2nd and 4th previously in this very race.
If you had asked anyone in 2008, who out of Martin, Wiggins and Froome was most likely to become a star, the answer would undoubtedly have been Martin and I think that is what SKY thought as well. Now even Porte is miles in front of Dan Martin. If Martin suddenly morphs into a TTer the way Wiggin's, Froome and Porte have morphed into their current guise's, then I will ask question's of Martin.
Frankly I have tried to give SKY as much leeway as possible but I find myself slipping towards the cynicism of many poster's who I normally would disagree with on the subject of doping. SKY just seem too good to be real. I await with baited breath to see what JTL pulls out of the hat when the Ardennes classics roll around.
Not alone are they just crushing races, they are making the racing thoroughly boring and this is something that would turn me off watching pro cycling in future. Mountain trains until a few Km's remaining, no thanks.
People can defend SKY all they want but at least have the decency to admit that this is not normal and has not really happened in pro cycling previously to this degree.
- Apr 20, 2012
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