Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[The Chicken]

<sigh> Another day, another demented display from Team Smash-It-Out-Of-The-Park.

Why don't the police do something about this? I thought they were supposed to take this kind of thing seriously.

Why no raids on Sky's hotel/bus/Froome's suitcase???

WHY DOESN'T SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING?

 

[mastersracer]

6.3 watts/kg for a sub 8 minute effort. 16 minutes on Belles Filles last year's Tour:

"for Wiggins and co at the front of the stage, it predicts about 6.4 to 6.5 W/kg. Over 16 minutes, that's not at all unreasonable." R. Tucker

Froome's 2011 Vuelta TT was 5.8 watts, 55 mins. His performance today consistent with that.

Not saying they aren't doping or not, but the 2013 performances are in line with prior ones from Froome.

 

[Clausfarre]

Yes, I ask the same question. When will somebody step in and have a closer look. Some sort or raid of hotels or busses or simple surveillance, based on all the red flags that Sky flaunt?

Maybe nothing will be found but at least we would know that they are being watched. Are they getting plenty of OOC testing?

You don't produce watts like that by just riding intelligently and employing great tactics.

 

[Lanark]

It would be nice of we could see some comparisons between Porte in 2010 (Giro) and 2013, but I doubt anybody bothered to calculate his w/kg in 2010.

 

[doolols]

Ok, guys, I hold my hands up. I was someone who thought that it might be possible, *just* possible, that SkyRiders were clean. With the money, the training, the technology ... you know, it might be *just* possible.

Froome today took a couple of attempts to break away from the other two, but Porte? What?

You know who Porte reminds me of? Ricco.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS_dsFNxba8&t=6m58s

I started it there so you got the "heads of state" quote from the Muppets.

 

[maxmartin]

I have tried to stay out of this thread for as long as possible and I would also say that I am far open-minded on the issue of non-doping than your average SKY basher.

However it is frankly amazing to think that anyone can watch what SKY are currently doing and just regard it as normal. I have been seriously trying to think of another team that dominated races like SKY and the closest I can come up with is ONCE(90s era) who dominated countless stage races during the season but never performed in the Tour like SKY 2012.

The SKY defenders are trying to deflect focus by trying to drag Dan Martin into this but look at Martin's career, it looks completely normal. His winning a climbing stage from a break is hardly earth-shattering stuff especially when he has a 2nd, 2nd and 4th previously in this very race.

If you had asked anyone in 2008, who out of Martin, Wiggins and Froome was most likely to become a star, the answer would undoubtedly have been Martin and I think that is what SKY thought as well. Now even Porte is miles in front of Dan Martin. If Martin suddenly morphs into a TTer the way Wiggin's, Froome and Porte have morphed into their current guise's, then I will ask question's of Martin.

Frankly I have tried to give SKY as much leeway as possible but I find myself slipping towards the cynicism of many poster's who I normally would disagree with on the subject of doping. SKY just seem too good to be real. I await with baited breath to see what JTL pulls out of the hat when the Ardennes classics roll around.

Not alone are they just crushing races, they are making the racing thoroughly boring and this is something that would turn me off watching pro cycling in future. Mountain trains until a few Km's remaining, no thanks.

People can defend SKY all they want but at least have the decency to admit that this is not normal and has not really happened in pro cycling previously to this degree.

second this

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

6.3 watts/kg for a sub 8 minute effort. 16 minutes on Belles Filles last year's Tour:

"for Wiggins and co at the front of the stage, it predicts about 6.4 to 6.5 W/kg. Over 16 minutes, that's not at all unreasonable." R. Tucker

Froome's 2011 Vuelta TT was 5.8 watts, 55 mins. His performance today consistent with that.

Not saying they aren't doping or not, but the 2013 performances are in line with prior ones from Froome.

Get of it you hack. Sky should hire you. But, please, do tell us why the science of sport hacks never did any further calculations on last years Tour. In 2009 they were all over the place. Semi scientists.

 

[Clausfarre]

You danish people make me sick. You gave us cheats like Riis and Rasmussen. But rather than thank the Brits for making the sport clean and bringing some legitimacy back to the sport you guys are too bitter to accept that sky would never dope and ask stupid senseless questions like why Rasmussens doctor was working with sky if they are clean.

You danish and the other European people are the problem. Let sky be the solution ffs. Who better to lead the way to clean sport afterall than a major capitalist company that has proven itself to have absolutely 0 morals.

Ha ha. I do apologise for smearing the Sky brand. My nation has brought shame upon the beautiful sport of cycling many times. Too many names to mention. Thankfully the brits have brought back the pride, the spirit and the honesty, saving a sport once plagued by cheating and giving us role models that all rose cheeked boys can be proud to admire and trust.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Ha ha. I do apologise for smearing the Sky brand. My nation has brought shame upon the beautiful sport of cycling many times. Too many names to mention. Thankfully the brits have brought back the pride, the spirit and the honesty, saving a sport once plagued by cheating and giving us role models that all rose cheeked boys can be proud to admire and trust.

Casper Jeppesen is upholding Danish pride at SKY. You Danes have something to be proud of.

Danes are good in logistics [Weltz]

 

[thehog]

Ok, guys, I hold my hands up. I was someone who thought that it might be possible, *just* possible, that SkyRiders were clean. With the money, the training, the technology ... you know, it might be *just* possible.

Froome today took a couple of attempts to break away from the other two, but Porte? What?

You know who Porte reminds me of? Ricco.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS_dsFNxba8&t=6m58s

I started it there so you got the "heads of state" quote from the Muppets.

Ricco has a personality.

Porte? Ummmmm, not so.

 

[maxmartin]

Ha ha. I do apologise for smearing the Sky brand. My nation has brought shame upon the beautiful sport of cycling many times. Too many names to mention. Thankfully the brits have brought back the pride, the spirit and the honesty, saving a sport once plagued by cheating and giving us role models that all rose cheeked boys can be proud to admire and trust.

you guys are funny

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Froome's 2011 Vuelta TT was 5.8 watts, 55 mins. His performance today consistent with that.

If we believe the power data and weight claims released by Sky, then Froome's 55 min FTP at the 2011 Vuelta was 5.8 W/kg while Brad's 57 min FTP at the 2011 TT Worlds was 6.3-6.4 W/kg (can't remember how much he supposedly weighed at the time) and his 64 min FTP at the 2012 TdF was 6.5 W/kg. But Froome outclimbed Brad at both the 2011 Vuelta and the 2012 TdF, so maybe the power data or (more likely) weight claims are total BS?

Who the *beep* thinks Froome is heavier than Brad?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Ok, guys, I hold my hands up. I was someone who thought that it might be possible, *just* possible, that SkyRiders were clean. With the money, the training, the technology ... you know, it might be *just* possible.

Froome today took a couple of attempts to break away from the other two, but Porte? What?

You know who Porte reminds me of? Ricco.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS_dsFNxba8&t=6m58s

I started it there so you got the "heads of state" quote from the Muppets.

Richie "Viper" Porte

 

[doolols]

Richie "Viper" Porte

That'll do nicely I can hear Phil Liggett saying it now.

 

[Parrulo]

why was it "not normal" when contador destroyed every1 on the mountains and barely beat cancellara on a hilly time trial but 3 years later it was perfectly normal and a sign of clean cycling that wiggins was one of the best climbers and absolutely destroyed every1, even cancellara, on the time trials and froome being able to ride away from every1 almost at will and still crushing every bar his team mate on the time trials?

 

[Ferminal]

I'm glad Froome's performances are only a little bit better than the 2011 Vuelta.

 

[BYOP88]

why was it "not normal" when contador destroyed every1 on the mountains and barely beat cancellara on a hilly time trial but 3 years later it was perfectly normal and a sign of clean cycling that wiggins was one of the best climbers and absolutely destroyed every1, even cancellara, on the time trials and froome being able to ride away from every1 almost at will and still crushing every bar his team mate on the time trials?

Because Froome and Wiggins are British*, whereas Contador is Spanish and in cycling they(the Spanish) have no talent unless they dope.


*well almost British.

 

[maxmartin]

----Criterium International, Col de l'Ospedale (last 10 km, 6.88 %, 688 m)

----ALL-TIME TOP 50 LIST

-1. Frank Schleck -------- LUX | 25:20 | 2011
-2. Pierrick Fedrigo ----- FRA | 25:30 | 2012
-3. Rinaldo Nocentini ---- ITA | 25:30 | 2012
-4. Lars Petter Nordhaug - NOR | 25:30 | 2012
-5. Cadel Evans ---------- AUS | 25:30 | 2012
-6. Vasili Kiryienka ----- BLR | 25:34 | 2011
-7. Chris Froome --------- GBR | 25:36 | 2013
-8. Guillaume Levarlet --- FRA | 25:38 | 2012
-9. Christophe Le Mevel -- FRA | 25:38 | 2012
10. Igor Anton ----------- FRA | 25:38 | 2012

Are these figures correct?

http://http://www.fillarifoorumi.fi/forum/showthread.php?38129-Ammattilaispy%F6r%E4ilij%F6iden-nousutietoja-%28aika-km-h-VAM-W-W-kg-etc-%29&p=1996897#post1996897

Even these data are correct, you have to remember racing conditions are vastly different. Today's weather is terrible, and remember Froom soloed the last 6KM, that is much much bigger effort than a bunch of doped guys taking turns.

 

[thehog]

I'm glad Froome's performances are only a little bit better than the 2011 Vuelta.

Did you see the weather?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Even these data are correct, you have to remember racing conditions are vastly different. Today's weather is terrible, and remember Froom soloed the last 6KM, that is much much bigger effort than a bunch of doped guys taking turns.

2012 finish line:

1 Pierrick Fedrigo (Fra) FDJ-Big Mat 4:52:34
2 Rinaldo Nocentini (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale
3 Lars Petter Nordhaug (Nor) Sky Procycling
4 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team

 

[Parrot23]

-2. Pierrick Fedrigo ----- FRA | 25:30 | 2012
-7. Chris Froome --------- GBR | 25:36 | 2013
-8. Guillaume Levarlet --- FRA | 25:38 | 2012

Woo, hoo. This is really shocking. I'm appalled.

 

[SocratesJohnson]

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, on the basis that they were getting a bit better but everyone else cut back and got a lot worse.

No longer any doubt, they are just taking the plss

p.s. i have a british passport

 

[cineteq]

-2. Pierrick Fedrigo ----- FRA | 25:30 | 2012
-7. Chris Froome --------- GBR | 25:36 | 2013
-8. Guillaume Levarlet --- FRA | 25:38 | 2012

Woo, hoo. This is really shocking. I'm appalled.

Apples and Oranges.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

-2. Pierrick Fedrigo ----- FRA | 25:30 | 2012
-7. Chris Froome --------- GBR | 25:36 | 2013
-8. Guillaume Levarlet --- FRA | 25:38 | 2012

Woo, hoo. This is really shocking. I'm appalled.

2012 finish line:

1 Pierrick Fedrigo (Fra) FDJ-Big Mat 4:52:34
2 Rinaldo Nocentini (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale
3 Lars Petter Nordhaug (Nor) Sky Procycling
4 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team

We'd have to read the "How it happened" to confirm, but 4 riders working together matching a single rider riding solo? Even up a steep hill it's helpful having other riders there. 22km/hr is enough to provide a draft. Having a wheel to follow is enough to provide motivation and pacing.

 

[The Hitch]

6.3 watts/kg for a sub 8 minute effort. 16 minutes on Belles Filles last year's Tour:

"for Wiggins and co at the front of the stage, it predicts about 6.4 to 6.5 W/kg. Over 16 minutes, that's not at all unreasonable." R. Tucker

Froome's 2011 Vuelta TT was 5.8 watts, 55 mins. His performance today consistent with that.

Not saying they aren't doping or not, but the 2013 performances are in line with prior ones from Froome.

Froomes 2013 is consistent with 2012 and Vuelta 2011?

Thats like saying Lances 2005 is consistent with his 2004, or Indurains 1993 was consistent with his 1991, or Contador's 2009 consistent with his 2007.