Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[the sceptic]

Personally I do not see the press standing up to Sky. Maybe some of the French will say something in July, but that is it. British media? Will keep quiet. Walsh is the tell. Wait till the Giro and see what he says. If he says nothing then it's gonna be clear his allegiances have changed. Which means investigative journalism won't likely uncover much. So a good old fashioned scandal from within is what I will have to settle for.

Walsh is on the sky bandwagon

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST
Outstanding victory for Dan Martin in Catalunya good for the sport. Watching him climb and suffer is reassuring. Same with Chris Froome.

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST
Impressive ride by Froome and Porte in Criterium International. Sky's tactics excellent, and though Froome won today, Porte is GT contender.

 

[MartinGT]

We should all be hoping he flops and stuffs up at the Giro. Wiggins does not want the Giro. He wants the FIRST GT OF 2013. So if he stuffs that up, the power struggle reignites. So what does he switch to?

Le Tour. The same Tour Froome has marked out and told everyone that it is his. If Wiggins had to shift to that for any reason, we will get a full blown war at Sky. Who is on Wiggins side? Rogers? Nope, he is gone. Porte and Froome are best buds. Richie would be forced to choose his friend over future personal gains that would be gifted to him with his own GT leadership if he sided with top dog Wiggins.

Make no mistake, I want all three riding the one GT. I want them at one anothers throats. I want the pressure to mount and mount and mount and mount so Wiggins has another GT like last years Tour, where he can claim, despite the ease of his win, that he wants to pack the bag in and go home. Throw in some controversy at a lab or with the gendarmerie...yeah I can see what you think happening.

Personally I do not see the press standing up to Sky. Maybe some of the French will say something in July, but that is it. British media? Will keep quiet. Walsh is the tell. Wait till the Giro and see what he says. If he says nothing then it's gonna be clear his allegiances have changed. Which means investigative journalism won't likely uncover much. So a good old fashioned scandal from within is what I will have to settle for.

I think Kath would kill him if he blabbed. I just cant see the Mod God blabbing unless it was after 8 pints of Guinness

 

[Galic Ho]

THE big difference between USPS and Sky is that almost immediately post 99 win there were detailed rumours. Detailed. Not mere internet warrior speculation but detailed knowledge. That is why Walsh knew he was on to a winner.

How long did it take for people to question? Really question? Took till after his 2005 retirement. Nice try. Walsh's name and book were ignored by the casual fans the sport is sold to. Only Clinic types knew about him. Heck in 2009-2011 around here most hadn't even read his books. Even now I doubt they have.

Where is Walsh now? He's arguably on another side of the fence. Fancy that...can stand up to an American, well from a distance he could, but not a Brit. How peculiar. The real deal guy...Kimmage. Said it to LA's face.

How many years did it take for Emma O'Reilly and Betsy Andreu to be heard? For their stories to become more than urban legends and internet rumours? Took years. How long did it take for the story about the faked TUE to emerge? Oh that's right, it was known by a journalist in 99, but nothing came about till an Emma O'Reilly talked.

That is the qualifier with time. It takes time to alienate and turn people against you. People who can burn you. How long did it take for solid scientific evidence to emerge proving Lance doped that made the public domain? Post 2005. The AFLD tests on the 99 samples. 7 years and a major change in doping tests.

The crap that is going on now, and it is going on behind the scenes, is all being deposited. The players and the evidence is there. Who spills the beans hasn't been played yet. You should ask the Danes here about a long running joke concerning a former Danish pro who recently confessed. Everyone knew. Just took his time to admit the obvious. Same with the Rabo news out of the Netherlands. Everyone knew.

Difference is this time, Sky are painting themselves as heroes. Beacons and champions of clean cycling. When their time is up, people won't forget how they rubbed it everyone's faces. Just like LA did. Their story won't end nicely. Your detailed talk...the first stages are already here. End of this year there will be a lot more. A lot more. All it takes is time.

 

[Galic Ho]

Motorcycle courier with refrigerated panniers following the team round France to name but one.

You would not believe how much I laughed about it at the time.

(of course pretty much everybody had organised supply as well)

Bahahaha.

That one was from where? Who said it and what was the famous chat on and between?

That was not an early rumour. Not even close. Who had the photos?

You've got 3 people to name. Nobody help him. The two discussing the paniers and the guy they mentioned who had photos. Name all 3. Go.

 

[Benotti69]

I think Kath would kill him if he blabbed. I just cant see the Mod God blabbing unless it was after 8 pints of Guinness

I think Wiggins is a loose cannon.

 

[Galic Ho]

I think Kath would kill him if he blabbed. I just cant see the Mod God blabbing unless it was after 8 pints of Guinness

I think she is the whole reason he changed after 2007. Wasn't making enough money. Brailsford had his ear, said a team was underway, that if you hop on the AICAR, follow this basic plan, give GC a crack and I can get you a million pound contract at new team I will run. I think his wife was 50% of his incentive to do what he's done. She's hyper actively ambitious.

The rest is history. Unlikely he'd blab. But if it all came out he'd be the one I'd have stuck on suicide watch. Don't think he was lying about the part he'd be in a big load of crap if he got popped.

 

[del1962]

Don't know who you've been talking to. I've encountered a healthy scepticism. Most Brits I've talked with think all cyclists are dopers. Even more so after the Armstrong confession.

Most Brits would know who Ed Clancy was over Chris Froome.

 

[Benotti69]

Walsh wrote about the Ferarri link in 2001. Unearthed Emma by 2003.

That's pretty early, really.

Ferarri was not a rumour. Walsh had it on good authority and Armstrong heard Walsh was going to publish so USPS had a press conference to admit to working with Ferarri.

Kimmage wrote a piece disbelieving Armstrong's performance on Sestriere in July 1999.

 

[Galic Ho]

Walsh is on the sky bandwagon

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST
Outstanding victory for Dan Martin in Catalunya good for the sport. Watching him climb and suffer is reassuring. Same with Chris Froome.

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST
Impressive ride by Froome and Porte in Criterium International. Sky's tactics excellent, and though Froome won today, Porte is GT contender.

I saw the first twitter comment elsewhere today. I believe Vayer said Froome was a nonono.

Second tweet is different. Matter of fact statement. Porte is a GT contender. No doubt about that. If they send him to the Vuelta and don't burn him out as a helper at either the Tour or Giro, he could put up one hell of a fight. He was ridiculously powerful yesterday. I thought he was stronger than Froome. Definitely holding back.

That is why I am advocating giving Walsh some more time. I'm not sold he's been bought, but that comment about Froome is not a good sign. Give it till May and then see what he says about Wiggins. More importantly see what his mate Kimmage says. Kimmage is more important than Walsh.

 

[burning]

Leave the Danes alone Hitch.

Tour de France 2007 | Michael Rasmussen

Stage 9, Col du Telegraphe (11.9 km, 7.14 %, 851 m):
Michael Rasmussen (DEN / Rabobank) | 33:15, 21.47 Kph, VAM 1536 m/h, 5.66 W/kg

Stage 9, Col du Galibier (last 7.8 km, 8.40 %, 655 m):
Michael Rasmussen (DEN / Rabobank) | 23:37, 19.82 Kph, VAM 1664 m/h, 5.86 W/kg

Stage 14, Plateau de Beille (15.9 km, 7.86 %, 1250 m):
Michael Rasmussen (DEN / Rabobank) | 44:17, 21.54 Kph, VAM 1694 m/h, 6.08 W/kg

Stage 15, Col de Peyresourde (last 8.78 km, 7.47 %, 656 m):
Michael Rasmussen (DEN / Rabobank) | 23:26, 22.48 Kph, VAM 1680 m/h, 6.11 W/kg

Stage 16, Col d'Aubisque (16.7 km, 7.09 %, 1184 m):
Michael Rasmussen (DEN / Rabobank) | 43:18, 23.14 Kph, VAM 1641 m/h, 6.06 W/kg

As we know Froome and Porte are in the same ballpark, and we know they're clean, I think the talk of Rasmussen doping is uncalled for. I know he admitted and all that but the numbers speak for themselves. 6.1w/kg = clean, regardless of who's putting out those figures.

According to this site http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm
the W/kgs are higher, can somebody verify the results?

Telegraphe: 352.1 Watt 5.9 Watt/Kg
Galibier: 362.9 Watt 6.1 Watt/Kg
Plateau de Beille: 381.5 Watt 6.4 Watt/Kg
Peyresourde: 387.0 Watt 6.5 Watt/Kg
Aubisque: 385.8 Watt 6.5 Watt/Kg

 

[maltiv]

According to this site http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm
the W/kgs are higher, can somebody verify the results?

Telegraphe: 352.1 Watt 5.9 Watt/Kg
Galibier: 356.0 Watt 6.0 Watt/Kg
Plateau de Beille: 381.5 Watt 6.4 Watt/Kg
Peyresourde: 387.0 Watt 6.5 Watt/Kg
Aubisque: 385.8 Watt 6.5 Watt/Kg

If the numbers in question, are calculated by the silly VAM to w/kg formula, then we can disregard them already. That formula has shown several times to have an enormous margin of error. It's not even remotely accurate.

5,6 w/kg with the VAM formula might be as high as 6,3 w/kg or so in reality...

 

[Bumeington]

If I flip a coin and it lands heads 50 times, what are the odds the next flip will be a tail based on the previous odds? About the same as knowing who is doping based on previous historical precendence? Unfortunately no one knows one way or the other at the moment who is doping. It's great that the Clinic are switched on to rooting out doping but just because you've been proved correct in the past on your suspicions doesn't always lead to knowing for sure the same situation will lead to the same outcome. However as you say, time will tell. If SKY are found to be doping then good riddance but at the moment I'm really not sure weither way.

Agree with your sentiment but come one, if I flipped a coin 50 times and it landed heads everytime I'd conclude that the coin is doping

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Agree with your sentiment but come one, if I flipped a coin 50 times and it landed heads everytime I'd conclude that the coin is doping

Or that it was a Team Sky rider that was flipping the coin

 

[ANCrider]

Bahahaha.

That one was from where? Who said it and what was the famous chat on and between?

That was not an early rumour. Not even close. Who had the photos?

You've got 3 people to name. Nobody help him. The two discussing the paniers and the guy they mentioned who had photos. Name all 3. Go.

Well one of the guys was me. The other guy was a former colleague who was working for Telekom. The place? Futuroscope. Armstrong had just won the ITT.

Not sure if anybody took any photos of us

Like I said, detailed rumours were about almost immediately.

 

[Galic Ho]

Well one of the guys was me. The other guy was a former colleague who was working for Telekom. The place? Futuroscope. Armstrong had just won the ITT.

Not sure if anybody took any photos of us

Like I said, detailed rumours were about almost immediately.

Well that's good to know Floyd. I am sure you and Frankie can ask JV who is the other guy whether he's talked about it in the thread.

Oh didn't you know? That the who had the Instant Messenger chat with Betsy Andreu's husband, the head of team Garmin, is a forum member? Check his thread in the Clinic out. He replies there all the time. He mentioned the paniers. That talk did not happen in 99. Like most doping issues it took years to come out.

It's called power. It's called omerta. People don't rock the boat. Not when it puts food on their table. The environment has to provide a platform or necessitate a need for someone to talk about doping. Like what happened with Floyd Landis.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

If I'd meant it, I'd have said it. My point was quite clear and quite finite. Please stop arguing with phantoms, address what i write, not what you'd wish I write. As in see below.

No, I say the 3 reelings in of Talansky cost a lot of energy, a little less than it will cost Talansky but you do have to come on his wheel before the slipstream will kick in. And yet Porte was able to jump? And how? He made bloodbag Menchov look like a pub rider.

I call that a huge improvement. Not even mentioning his time on col d'Eze.

I'm sorry, but yes - it's perfectly standard for a mountain TT. You've never seen a good TTer out of the saddle in a final push? what do you want me to say? It doesn't happen?

He 'reeled in' known mountain sprinters, call it what you like, but after that gungho 600 metres dash uphill - last K in 2 minute 10, about 29 kilometres/hour that is - that is quite nice.

Now this is my bad. I meant to type 150, I typed 50. Silly mistake, and mea culpa. I can't prove it was a typo, just have to ak you to take my word for it. that's up to you.

Would you deny my main point though, that at 150, the Valverde legs seems to go?

No problem, 50/150, it is the same.

Valverde won the sprint of Rodriguez, so, him faltering with 150 to go would seem unlikely. That does not take away Wiggo being a mountainsprinter all of a sudden, even after his gungho move what killed of 95% of the remaining peloton.

He slipstreamed for all of four, five seconds! Sweet lord, come on!

Just amazes me two people can watch the same race and see different things....

Five seconds and then bazingo. Of he went. Even taking time out of the Dawg.

See, which is the bit you don't like - the dope, or the robotics?
And do you understand they aren't one and the same?

Dope makes robots, you must know that by now.

 

[will10]

According to this site http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm
the W/kgs are higher, can somebody verify the results?

Telegraphe: 352.1 Watt 5.9 Watt/Kg
Galibier: 362.9 Watt 6.1 Watt/Kg
Plateau de Beille: 381.5 Watt 6.4 Watt/Kg
Peyresourde: 387.0 Watt 6.5 Watt/Kg
Aubisque: 385.8 Watt 6.5 Watt/Kg

I prefer to quote vetoo's calculations as even if the numbers are not 100% accurate to what you'd see on a rider's SRM data, he uses the same method for each climb, so it's easier to compare with other performances. The method used on the rst site guesses a mass, which introduces error (particularly as eg. Wiggins' and Froome's weights seem as difficult to pin down as Armstrong's once was).

 

[will10]

Alexandre Mignot ‏@AlexandreMignot 7h
Péraud : « I told Froome that I couldn't take a relay at this moment, and he told me : Ok, well, you'll never take a relay. Good bye »

 

[BYOP88]

Alexandre Mignot ‏@AlexandreMignot 7h
Péraud : « I told Froome that I couldn't take a relay at this moment, and he told me : Ok, well, you'll never take a relay. Good bye »

The sooner that turd is flushed the better.

 

[burning]

I prefer to quote vetoo's calculations as even if the numbers are not 100% accurate to what you'd see on a rider's SRM data, he uses the same method for each climb, so it's easier to compare with other performances. The method used on the rst site guesses a mass, which introduces error (particularly as eg. Wiggins' and Froome's weights seem as difficult to pin down as Armstrong's once was).

I used 59kg for Rasmussen and 8kg for bike and stuff, if you increase the weight, the watt/kg will go down a little bit obviously

 

[del1962]

Well one of the guys was me. The other guy was a former colleague who was working for Telekom. The place? Futuroscope. Armstrong had just won the ITT.

Not sure if anybody took any photos of us

Like I said, detailed rumours were about almost immediately.

There was also the Bassons incident, that convinced Walsh

 

[the sceptic]

The sooner that turd is flushed the better.

Froome is getting cocky now, he feels invincible. Hopefully he will go full *** soon and forget that he is supposed to stay within 6.0w/kg

 

[LaFlorecita]

The sooner that turd is flushed the better.

Well said byop! His head's gotten a bit big.

 

[del1962]

Well said byop! His head's gotten a bit big.

Perhaps Froome should have sit on my wheel all the way up the mountain.

Can't understand why BYOP** is pooing his pants over this

 

[Bexon30]

Well said byop! His head's gotten a bit big.

And no doubt he will be talked to by staff just like Seb Vettel. There will be some talk about respecting others and keeping things as real as possible. But for me that's where it stops, come race day in the heat of battle and all that factors in Froomes eagerness and hunger will get the better of him. He will fly and rip shreds out of anyone who dares stop him, all that pent up aggression from last years Tour. Then boom it's all out there for all to see a new dominant champ and record climbing times. All in the name of marginal gains. FroomEGO