Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[timmers]

What does it say? That I forget the specially commishioned audio with a continuous loop of Manolo Saiz yelling, "Venge! Venge! Venge!"? That is worth an additional 1%. Or is it the Brits cannot accept what is obvious to everyone else so they take offense at everyone who questions the myth?

No. What it says is that it appears that if you compete you have never competed away from home because if you had you would recognise the benefits of having your own pillow when you sleep at night. We ,my partner and I, try to take our pillows with us when racing but we also take our foam roller so maybe we are into marginal gains or just stupid! Based on results I think we are just smart!

 

[will10]

When the SoS guys or Ashenden say "these results are impossible without PEDs" then I'm fully onside.

As you may have noticed from my last few posts, I'm certainly open to the idea that there may be something afoot.

You said you wanted to know why climbing rates were down on 5 years ago.

They aren't.

 

[argyllflyer]

Ok Clinic Sky haters, here's your chance to tell Sky what you really think:

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_8633055,00.html

http://survey.repucom.info/wv3/EN/survey.htm

The last few lots of questions are about how clean you think Sky are and whether they're going about things the right way. Go on, tell them.

 

[timmers]

personally I wouldn't have used Salazar as a shining example of cleanliness...not with his own history and with his other runner Rupp (a white guy) also beating Bekele over 10000m to get 2nd.

so is Salazar clean?

 

[will10]

Ok Clinic Sky haters, here's your chance to tell Sky what you really think:

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_8633055,00.html

http://survey.repucom.info/wv3/EN/survey.htm

The last few lots of questions are about how clean you think Sky are and whether they're going about things the right way. Go on, tell them.

Thanks man, I could do with a Sky musette.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Ok Clinic Sky haters, here's your chance to tell Sky what you really think:

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_8633055,00.html

http://survey.repucom.info/wv3/EN/survey.htm

The last few lots of questions are about how clean you think Sky are and whether they're going about things the right way. Go on, tell them.

Uh yeah right. What kind of car do I drive? WTF does that have to do with anything?

 

[JimmyFingers]

They're trying to work out how much you earn and how much money they and their sponsors can make off you

 

[The Hitch]

Yes. And that certain point was over 25 years ago. It's a careless and lazy assumption to make that someone who retains an open mind re. SKY is some sort of neophyte fan.

Nowhere near as careless and lazy as what you said about Sagan.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

You said you wanted to know why climbing rates were down on 5 years ago.

They aren't.

I think this is a tough one to prove either way, tbh.

Landis climbed ADH in under 39 minutes in 2006 (6 years before the most recent Tour.)

Sastre did 39:30 two years later.

The fastest ascent in 2011 (the last time the Tour went that way) was over 41 minutes. This is a non-ignorable about slower than what was observed in 2006 and 2008. In fact, there was a paper posted here somewhere that showed the average of the five fastest ascents since 2010 (ie all from 2011) was slower than the average of the 5 fastest in the 1980s.

Small sample sizes and different conditions make drawing firm conclusions difficult. There's a chance that 2011 was significantly inferior performance-wise than 2012, but I think there's enough names prominent in the Tour in both years for us (well, me at least!) to conclude that this is not the case.

There's no doubt that things are more believeable than the EPO and Lance era (where sub 39 minute ascents were commonplace) though that's not necessarily a ringing endorsement of the current era.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Worth ploughing through to say that I completely distrust the UCI.

Hope more do the same, that could be a powerful message to Sky, and from them to the UCI

 

[Catwhoorg]

I don't think anyone argues that cycling is completely clean.

Cleaner than the real bad days seems to be pretty much a given.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

personally I wouldn't have used Salazar as a shining example of cleanliness...not with his own history and with his other runner Rupp (a white guy) also beating Bekele over 10000m to get 2nd.

One wonders why Bekele couldn't manage faster than 27:32 in London when his PB is 26:17.

He's certainly had a lot of injury problems since 2009, so outperforming him in 2012 might simply be because he wasn't very good as opposed to any great performance levels by those who beat him.

That said, I did raise my eyebrows at the improvement Farah showed when he started training with Salazar. Not because it was Salazr; more because it was a significant improvement.

No comment on Salazar, other than if I recall correctly, he pushed himself so hard in a marathon once that he was adminstered the "Last Rites" shortly after he finished. You've got to admire that level of commitment!

 

[thehog]

the absurd part is your selective questioning of my post

DB stated avoid traditional ideas JUST because that's the way it's always
been done without evaluating and tasting what's best

an example is team dinners on tours...............if it's the optimum time to eat
to allow best digestion iriders will eat alone

Mark L

Perhaps you might want to link where Sir Dave had said this along with some evidence of such.

You're just making this up to fit your an reasoning.

Team dinners on Tour? It's the optimum time eat for digestion? I'm not following. You mean eating dinner at dinner time but eating alone is optimum?

And here I thought Sky were all about team but now I'm told they eat alone at different times?

Here's a video of Saxo-Bank "kitchen on wheels":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohwMCRSCngk&sns=em

Do you think they can eat at optimum times as well with their very own kitchen? Or Riis forces them into the hotel diner to eat together every night at the same time.

Saxo have been doing this since 2010. It's not new and its not a Sky invention.

Garmin do the same as well as many other teams.

You're just making things up and drinking a hefty dose of Cool-Aid.

 

[The Hitch]

I think this is a tough one to prove either way, tbh.

Landis climbed ADH in under 39 minutes in 2006 (6 years before the most recent Tour.)

Sastre did 39:30 two years later.

The fastest ascent in 2011 (the last time the Tour went that way) was over 41 minutes. This is a non-ignorable about slower than what was observed in 2006 and 2008. In fact, there was a paper posted here somewhere that showed the average of the five fastest ascents since 2010 (ie all from 2011) was slower than the average of the 5 fastest in the 1980s.

Small sample sizes and different conditions make drawing firm conclusions difficult. There's a chance that 2011 was significantly inferior performance-wise than 2012, but I think there's enough names prominent in the Tour in both years for us (well, me at least!) to conclude that this is not the case.

There's no doubt that things are more believeable than the EPO and Lance era (where sub 39 minute ascents were commonplace) though that's not necessarily a ringing endorsement of the current era.

The 2011 ascent was soft peddalled by the gc contenders, 2 of who had already attacked earlier in the stage.

 

[del1962]

One wonders why Bekele couldn't manage faster than 27:32 in London when his PB is 26:17.

He's certainly had a lot of injury problems since 2009, so outperforming him in 2012 might simply be because he wasn't very good as opposed to any great performance levels by those who beat him.

That said, I did raise my eyebrows at the improvement Farah showed when he started training with Salazar. Not because it was Salazr; more because it was a significant improvement.

No comment on Salazar, other than if I recall correctly, he pushed himself so hard in a marathon once that he was adminstered the "Last Rites" shortly after he finished. You've got to admire that level of commitment!

Do you know anything about how championship distance races are most frequently ran?

Perhaps you might want to link where Sir Dave had said this along with some evidence of such.

You're just making this up to fit your an reasoning.

Team dinners on Tour? It's the optimum time eat for digestion? I'm not following. You mean eating dinner at dinner time but eating alone is optimum?

And here I thought Sky were all about team but now I'm told they eat alone at different times?

Here's a video of Saxo-Bank "kitchen on wheels":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohwMCRSCngk&sns=em

Do you think they can eat at optimum times as well with their very own kitchen? Or Riis forces them into the hotel diner to eat together every night at the same time.

Saxo have been doing this since 2010. It's not new and its not a Sky invention.

Garmin do the same as well as many other teams.

You're just making things up and drinking a hefty dose of Cool-Aid.

Riis is probably paranoid about where his rider's steaks are coming from unlike Astana

 

[richtea]

The 2011 ascent was soft peddalled by the gc contenders, 2 of who had already attacked earlier in the stage.

How much quicker could they have done it?

 

[D-Queued]

Gentle(wo)men,
would it be possible to not revisit the "Froome was a nobody/Froome is fantastic" arguments for the tenth time? We all know about the the '09 Giro swerve, '10 bilharzia, '11 Sir Dave napkin assessment, '11 Veulta transformation, '12 early season relapse to TdF/Olympic glory bla bla bla

cheers
bison

We all know?

De Nile is a river in Egypt, but it doesn't stop many folks from wanting to live there.

Dave.

 

[martinvickers]

I don't think it's funny that he had one, having recently had a couple myself, but the irony, of this little snippet is making me laugh, for some prolonged period of time...



Ah Geert Leinders, you are sorely missed.

Also: rider with typically robust constitution joins team Sky where they teach him to wash his hands properly amidst a myriad other marginal gains, have much more money for good health care and careful training staff and ... he falls sick. In fact it's the worst start to the season he has ever had.

Typically robust? Is this not the guy who all but left the sport for several years because of Epstein-barr?come on, wiggo, your slip is showing...

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Do you know anything about how championship distance races are most frequently run?

I do. I've watched a fair few, going back to the days of Lasse Viren!

The point is that had Bekele been in peak form, he'd have been able to either blow Farah and Rupp away before the last lap or outsprint them. He was out of form - or maybe just past it, given that he's been at the top for around 8 years - in the OGs last year.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

The 2011 ascent was soft peddalled by the gc contenders, 2 of who had already attacked earlier in the stage.

That's as maybe, but the Schleck/Evans group was over 42 minutes for the ascent, though. Rolland, Sanchez and Berto were the ones close to 41 minutes, and they were not soft-pedalling. (Berto was pedalling squares by the top, in fact.)

 

[JRanton]

I was waiting for the ''Did the hiring of Geert Leinders, a doping doctor for nearly 20 years, make you more suspicious about the team?'' question, but unfortunately it didn't appear.

Or we could have had, ''Did Michael Rogers' 2012 performances, which he openly admitted were better than what he produced when working with Michele Ferrari, make you more suspicious about the team?''

 

[The Hitch]

I do. I've watched a fair few, going back to the days of Lasse Viren!

The point is that had Bekele been in peak form, he'd have been able to either blow Farah and Rupp away before the last lap or outsprint them. He was out of form - or maybe just past it, given that he's been at the top for around 8 years - in the OGs last year.

Bekele has been beset by injuries. He missed the 2011 worlds and didnt look good at all going into London. Im surprised he managed to place so high. this clearly wasnt the bekele of old

I think he said that was going to be his last 10 000m race ever and now hes going to go into marathon. If he can get over his injuries and if marathon suits him as much as it did Haile then Bekele vs 10 Kenyans is going to be the best sport in the world to watch in a couple of years.

 

[armchairclimber]

In a couple of years Farah will be in the mix too.

 

[ebandit]

cool

Perhaps you might want to link where Sir Dave had said this along with some evidence of such.

You're just making this up to fit your an reasoning.

1st you manipulate what i said then when you correct you........i hear
'you made it up in the first place'

DB's quote was from 'sky's the limit' idea being to be always flexible and not entrenched in dogma

like most teams team sky have their own chef and can eat when they choose

Mark L

 

[The Hitch]

That's as maybe, but the Schleck/Evans group was over 42 minutes for the ascent, though. Rolland, Sanchez and Berto were the ones close to 41 minutes, and they were not soft-pedalling. (Berto was pedalling squares by the top, in fact.)

Berto was peddaling squares cos he attacked 100k out and solo'd his way up 2 mountains, before getting caught in the valley and then attacking again up alpe.

Seriously it was like the biggest TDF moment in recent years.

Similarly Voeckler didnt crack because the race up Alpe was too hot for him. he cracked because like Berto he was pulling on his own for half an hour.