Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Carols]

Worth ploughing through to say that I completely distrust the UCI.

Hope more do the same, that could be a powerful message to Sky, and from them to the UCI

Indeed, it was my favorite question

 

[thehog]

1st you manipulate what i said then when you correct you........i hear
'you made it up in the first place'

DB's quote was from 'sky's the limit' idea being to be always flexible and not entrenched in dogma

like most teams team sky have their own chef and can eat when they choose

Mark L

So where the "gain"?

Appears to me Sky are just like every other team.

There are no marginal gains.

So where's there power coming from?

Pillows the same. Training location the same. Kitchen on wheels are the same.

Do they do army styled team bonding like Riis does at Saxo?

That could be a marginal loss?

I'm just not following the logic and fail to see why they're so strong.

Could it be?

Doping? That's a gain. A big gain.

 

[The Hitch]

In a couple of years Farah will be in the mix too.

And would you believe it?

Not that Farah has any business being in the mix with Bekele.

1 was world cross country champion in his teens and world champion at 21. Best Afrcian sportsman of all time.

The other, only 8 months younger, was nobody until the London Olympic cycle came around at which point suddenly hes the king of the 5 and 10 thousand.

 

[gooner]

Berto was peddaling squares cos he attacked 100k out and time trialed his way up 2 mountains, before getting caught in the valley and then attacking again up alpe.

Seriously it was like the

Similarly Voeckler didnt crack because the race up Alpe was too hot for him. he cracked because like Berto he was pulling on his own for half an hour.

The Plateau de Beille stage was significantly slower than Contador and Rasmussen in 07 and Lance's victories in the past.

Contador's win on Alpe d'Huez in 2010 Dauphine was well slower than the Lance era as well.

 

[The Hitch]

The Plateau de Beille stage was significantly slower than Contador and Rasmussen in 07 and Lance's victories in the past.

Contador's win on Alpe d'Huez in 2010 Dauphine was well slower than the Lance era as well.

The Luz Ardiden stage was significantly slower.

The plateau de beile stage, jelle vanendert (hardly the best climber in the peloton) was 20 seconds slower than 1 of Lances times and 40 seconds slower than the other. Though more than a minute slower than Chicken Contador and Pantani. (if the numbers on wikipedia are to be believed)

On both stages the heads of state soft pedalled.

Though i agree the times do look like they are slower at the tour. But then again I see Gilbert and Evans have the 2 records on Muur du huy and Gilbert last 3 years are the 3 fastest ascents up the Cauberg.

 

[ebandit]

marginal

So where the "gain"?

.

refer to my earlier post i write...........marginal gains are just that ...marginal

my thought is that observers here are so keen to mock washing hands / riders
own mattress / warming down / M n M's in team colours they don't take note of less marginal gains

flexible approach to training with scientific input from a no. of coaches who are always with the riders

signing riders with most potential to improve

following the BC track teams approach + more..........but of course all
that success could have been from doping all along too

Mark L

 

[armchairclimber]

And would you believe it?

Not that Farah has any business being in the mix with Bekele.

1 was world cross country champion in his teens and world champion at 21. Best Afrcian sportsman of all time.

The other, only 8 months older, was nobody until the London Olympic cycle came around at which point suddenly hes the king of the 5 and 10 thousand.

Well yes, I would believe it. It's not as though Farah came out of nowhere. Sure, Bekele was, in his prime, the greatest distance runner ever. The age is irrelevant mind....Bekele had far more training hours behind him than Farah.

Bekele is interesting. I believe the majority of his training was based upon 200m reps. A lot of them, run hard.

 

[The Hitch]

Well yes, I would believe it. It's not as though Farah came out of nowhere. Sure, Bekele was, in his prime, the greatest distance runner ever. The age is irrelevant mind....Bekele had far more training hours behind him than Farah.

Bekele is interesting. I believe the majority of his training was based upon 200m reps. A lot of them, run hard.

Sorry, but even now at his absolute super self farah is nowhere near as good as bekele, not in the 5, not in the 10, not in cross country where bekele won the double 5 years in a row and is 11 time world champion.

Yet if he suddenly becomes in the mix with Bekele (probably greatest long distance athlete ever) and 10 clearly doping kenyans all of whome have in the last few years run under the 2002 marathon wr, you would believe that he was doing it clean.

hmmm that says it all really.

 

[thehog]

refer to my earlier post i write...........marginal gains are just that ...marginal

my thought is that observers here are so keen to mock washing hands / riders
own mattress / warming down / M n M's in team colours they don't take note of less marginal gains

flexible approach to training with scientific input from a no. of coaches who are always with the riders

signing riders with most potential to improve

following the BC track teams approach + more..........but of course all
that success could have been from doping all along too

Mark L

But you can't list any of the gains.

If other teams do them as well then it's not a gain. It's a leveling.

And what of marginal loss?

Can these gains be cancelled out?

Sky's theory is poor. It assumes no other team does the same or has their own version of a marginal gain.

Are we to assume that Sky were able to do 50 things no other team did?

Highly unlikely. It's just marketing speak.

Problem being Froome an Porte were on a other level at CI. They weren't "marginally" better. They were "significantly" better.

Doesn't add up.

The theory does not stack up.

They killed Garmin. And they like to warm down.

And signing riders who most likely improve? How do they work that out? hematocrit?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Berto was peddaling squares cos he attacked 100k out and solo'd his way up 2 mountains, before getting caught in the valley and then attacking again up alpe.

That's the problem with you apologists for proven dopers - there's always an excuse for a "poor" performance.

I think this year's Tour with it's dual ascent of ADH will be more conclusive than the 2011 stage which was unusually short and unusually "animated".

 

[the sceptic]

Sorry, but even now at his absolute super self farah is nowhere near as good as bekele, not in the 5, not in the 10, not in cross country where bekele won the double 5 years in a row and is 11 time world champion.

Yet if he suddenly becomes in the mix with Bekele (probably greatest long distance athlete ever) and 10 clearly doping kenyans all of whome have in the last few years run under the 2002 marathon wr, you would believe that he was doing it clean.

hmmm that says it all really.

Dont you know? everyone stopped doping in long distance running in 2012. And Farah has always shown potential.

 

[the sceptic]

refer to my earlier post i write...........marginal gains are just that ...marginal

my thought is that observers here are so keen to mock washing hands / riders
own mattress / warming down / M n M's in team colours they don't take note of less marginal gains

flexible approach to training with scientific input from a no. of coaches who are always with the riders

signing riders with most potential to improve

following the BC track teams approach + more..........but of course all
that success could have been from doping all along too

Mark L

Of course the success could have been from doping, but you and all the other skybots prefer the marginal gains hypothesis. Seems very naive to just ignore what has been going on in the sport for the last 20 years. But hey, you brits are different of course

The Sceptic

 

[xcleigh]

. But hey, you brits are different of course

The Sceptic

Yup, superior. Simples.

 

[ebandit]

?

Of course the success could have been from doping, but you and all the other skybots prefer the marginal gains hypothesis. Seems very naive to just ignore what has been going on in the sport for the last 20 years. But hey, you brits are different of course

The Sceptic

reading difficult? my thought again..............marginal gains are just that
......marginal

team sky follow the BC track team approach............driven by science / evaluation of performance

as to doping you know no more than me.......they could be....they might not be

the past remains the past we are yet to learn

again............it has nothing to do with being british

Mark L

 

[ebandit]

gotcha

But you can't list any of the gains.

Doesn't add up.

you have got me now hoggie...............if i was a sports scientist / sports
psychiatrist i would tell you exactly how it was done

or maybe? i would be on £100k a year with team sky

team sky have the boffins to create this success......so they tell us

Mark L

 

[zalacain]

I have to admit motor pacing is not something I've seen before. If Sky are training at race pace behind the car I can imagine it gives them an edge.

.

We used to go out behind a car in the 50s.

(It was only a Seat 500 mind you)

 

[JimmyFingers]

He's taken a bit in a video and run with it, at no point have Sky claimed to invent motorpacing or even cited it as a key part of the training. In fact it was a Radioshack video, two sets of Sky riders come past them on a climb, someone here asked what they were doing and were told motorpacing and in the usual tedious inevitability Hoggo up and runs with it.

All this stuff about hand-washing, warming down and whatever else guff he and the other trolls come up with is just hot air, meaningless words that fill up the bandwidth and clog the threads, choking more meaningful discussion. Apparently that's ok though.

 

[Carols]

We used to go out behind a car in the 50s.

(It was only a Seat 500 mind you)

LOL my dad was motor pacing in the 1920s

 

[the sceptic]

He's taken a bit in a video and run with it, at no point have Sky claimed to invent motorpacing or even cited it as a key part of the training. In fact it was a Radioshack video, two sets of Sky riders come past them on a climb, someone here asked what they were doing and were told motorpacing and in the usual tedious inevitability Hoggo up and runs with it.

All this stuff about hand-washing, warming down and whatever else guff he and the other trolls come up with is just hot air, meaningless words that fill up the bandwidth and clog the threads, choking more meaningful discussion. Apparently that's ok though.

So youre saying Brentford is just trolling when he is talking about marginal gains? It wasnt the forum posters that came up with all that crap you know.

Im looking forward to your meaningful posts though. after 750 posts in this thread it must be due at any time now.

 

[thehog]

you have got me now hoggie...............if i was a sports scientist / sports
psychiatrist i would tell you exactly how it was done

or maybe? i would be on £100k a year with team sky

team sky have the boffins to create this success......so they tell us

Mark L

I think I have got you.

You don't sound very convinced.

I'll leave to Tim Kerrison to explain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzZpg2dMcKU&sns=em

Looks very revolutionary what they are doing!?

 

[thehog]

He's taken a bit in a video and run with it, at no point have Sky claimed to invent motorpacing or even cited it as a key part of the training. In fact it was a Radioshack video, two sets of Sky riders come past them on a climb, someone here asked what they were doing and were told motorpacing and in the usual tedious inevitability Hoggo up and runs with it.

All this stuff about hand-washing, warming down and whatever else guff he and the other trolls come up with is just hot air, meaningless words that fill up the bandwidth and clog the threads, choking more meaningful discussion. Apparently that's ok though.

You should read your own signature.

You mention the warming down.

Who's choking the thread?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Correction: Vaughters does

 

[JimmyFingers]

LOL my dad was motor pacing in the 1920s

No-one, not posters here, nor Sky, have made claims for motorpaced training in any way, just that Sky were seen doing it in a Radioshack video. No emphasis has been put on it, it has not been claimed as an innovation it has not been referred to as a 'marginal gain' for Sky, just that in a video they are seen doing it.

So why is this funny?

 

[thehog]

Correction: Vaughters does

Words: Vaughters Music: JimmyFingers.

 

[ebandit]

thanks

I'll leave to Tim Kerrison to explain.

thanks! hoggie you will make a sports scientist of me...........yet

of course team sky are unlikely to show the real gains

but their team jersey is driven by function rather than being a billboard for multiple sponsors............that white back reflects sunshine

Mark L