Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Ripper]

Except Porte was in the box seat and had the legs. The only person that beat him was Froome. He may have allowed Porte the win had he won T-A (or if Porte hadn't won P-N) but he clearly wanted the win. It was planned, and he even looked back at Porte and Porte gave him the nod when he attacked.

As for games, not sure what you're meaning, the fact that Wiggins couldn't recover from the mechanical? Or that Nibali looked so impressive you don't think Wiggins would have beaten him anyway? He looked very comfortable matching him on Wednesday. I haven't actually eyeballed the climb, just followed the ticker and the race thread.

And ok, from hence forth I shall say tactics, or training regime

WRT Games, some folks are surmising that sir giggo may not really be trying yet, may have soft peddled so as to give folks the wrong impression of his condition, may have shut ut down when he figured he might need to dig too deep to catch Nibs, etc.

My point was I do not think he could have beat Nibs today. Could be that Nibs felt better and has better recovery right now (i.e. has better form) and would have won by more than a minute regardless, or it could be that Jiggo went into the red in his chase and that did enough damage to result in him slowing considerably. All of this said, it is Trentino, not a GT, and Figgo was taking Anti-B's, and that can suck it out of you too = IOW, we shouldn't draw too many conclusions.

I am interested to see what the next few months are like ...

 

[JimmyFingers]

Yes, always good to provide for the benefit of doubt.

Lots and lots and lots of doubt.

BTW - can you point me to the Forum on new and novel race strategies?

Will SKY move to the new zone defence this year, or stick to their man-on-man coverage?

Dave.

Can you me point to the part where I described the tactics as new or novel?

 

[Ripper]

I think there's an element of trying to stretch resources too, to cover both Giro and Tour - and while Froome has Porte and Kiriyena looking like bosses all year (or at least till the Paid Vasco TT), Konta and Cataldo have been rather more fitful - if Wiggins had a couple of his doms today he could simply have swapped bikes and lost a handful of seconds, with another dom to pace him. AS it was, not for the first time this year, he was isolated.

And here of course is another reason not to draw conclusions that Jiggo will not be uber dominant later. Only half the giro team was here.

 

[JimmyFingers]

WRT Games, some folks are surmising that sir giggo may not really be trying yet, may have soft peddled so as to give folks the wrong impression of his condition, may have shut ut down when he figured he might need to dig too deep to catch Nibs, etc.

My point was I do not think he could have beat Nibs today. Could be that Nibs felt better and has better recovery right now (i.e. has better form) and would have won by more than a minute regardless, or it could be that Jiggo went into the red in his chase and that did enough damage to result in him slowing considerably. All of this said, it is Trentino, not a GT, and Figgo was taking Anti-B's, and that can suck it out of you too = INO, we shouldn't draw too many conclusions.

I am interested to see what the next few months are like ...

Wiggins is a strange character, but I will say this race is the first I've seen him properly trying so far this season, of what I have seen of it so far (so barring today). Up until now he hasn't really gone for it, a couple of stages in Catalunya aside. I don't think he is as hungry this year, doesn't seem to want the pressure he was under last season, or at least is freed from those pressures by winning so much last year. He actually looks like he's enjoying it more, bike toss aside (which I have seen, and laughed at). I even noticed him giving Nibali a little tap on the bum as they crossed the line together on Wednesday, bit like that stage in the TdF after they had being having a few verbals in the press and I thought that strange frankly, too ambivalent, too friendly.

Perhaps he thought he had the measure of Nibali, and it was almost apologetic,but whatever it was it wasn't the aggression or attitude of a determined winner, unless it was someone thinking he had already won.

 

[D-Queued]

Can you me point to the part where I described the tactics as new or novel?

I didn't see or say that.

Am just going with your flow here, not arguing with you.

Pro cycling is Kafkaesque. It is true theater of the absurd.

Dave.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I didn't see or say that.

Am just going with your flow here, not arguing with you.

Pro cycling is Kafkaesque. It is true theater of the absurd.

Dave.

A quality, succinct summation, and isn't this forum a very accurate reflection of that? Entertaining and frustrating in equal measures

 

[Ripper]

I didn't see or say that.

Am just going with your flow here, not arguing with you.

Pro cycling is Kafkaesque. It is true theater of the absurd.

Dave.

That's so good it's gotta be in my sig

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I may not be a haematologist, but I analyze data from testing for a living. That one point is not something I'd hang a hat on, let alone an argument.

Suggesting to plot it on a scattergram is as useful as the last guy who banged on about being a data results analyst in a lab. He only posted a few times and said you can't predict anything from weak correlation coefficients. Then proceeded to completely analyse his graph wrong altogether. el oh el.

Is any of that data you analyze from testing time-dependent?

Is any of that data context-dependent?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Suggesting to plot it on a scattergram is as useful as the last guy who banged on about being a data results analyst in a lab. He only posted a few times and said you can't predict anything from weak correlation coefficients. Then proceeded to completely analyse his graph wrong altogether. el oh el.

Is any of that data you analyze from testing time-dependent?

Is any of that data context-dependent?

This coming from the guy who failed to read a table.

Here are Team Sky's audited expenses for 2011:

362k GBP is still a heck of a lot of research.

Try reading it more carefully. That was the figure for office expenses. Research was £86k.

 

[mattghg]

My view is that riders are damned if they publish their values and damned if they don't. If they don't they get accused of doping. If they do they will undoubtedly contain an anomaly or two that will someone will use as proof of doping. The problem is that you probably need to be a trained specialist to be able to properly interpret which anomalies are natural fluctuations and which are indicative of doping.

This.
.....

 

[Ferminal]

And that you can dope and your ABP can look fine, depending on the extent of your doping and the frequency of tests.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

And that you can dope and your ABP can look fine, depending on the extent of your doping and the frequency of tests.

And that you can dope and your ABP look like a dog's breakfast, but UCI don't submit those dodgy values to the passport panel for further scrutiny.

 

[Benotti69]

And that you can dope and your ABP can look fine, depending on the extent of your doping and the frequency of tests.

Why not? How many doctors do the teams have to monitor blood levels and to correct them to avoid anomalies showing up on riders passports?

Passport is not preventing doping. It is only preventing epo abuse ( massive %HCTs), but they beat ages ago.

 

[mattghg]

And that you can dope and your ABP can look fine, depending on the extent of your doping and the frequency of tests.

In which case the clamour for teams/riders to release their blood data is a bit pointless.

 

[JimmyFingers]

As Vickers is fond of saying, you can't prove a negative. Its a lovely f***ing war

 

[SundayRider]

He's huge!

Plenty of road riders much 'heavier looking' thank BW who achieved far better results. Very similar to the Armstrong weight loss myth in that regard.

 

[zalacain]

It is true theater of the absurd.

So that's why Wiggins took a long pause yesterday

Shame their attention to detail doesn't stretch to mechanics checking the equipment

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Zalacain beat me to the punchline.

More attention to detail:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-gear-problems-cost-him-dear-at-the-giro-del-trentino

Team Sky staff were vague about why Wiggins' spare bike was fitted with a 39 inner ring.

 

[Ripper]

Plenty of road riders much 'heavier looking' thank BW who achieved far better results. Very similar to the Armstrong weight loss myth in that regard.

I was joking.

 

[martinvickers]

Can someone corroborate this? It wasn't one? Three close together on the run-in to the final climb?

I was under the impression it was 2 mechanicals, and then the spare back was slightly wrongly geared which did for him on the steep part. So 2 mechanicals, and 1 mechanics.

 

[martinvickers]

It's been a while since I trotted out the crackpot theory.

The UCI getting paid, handsomely, by the IOC for their excellent London Games viewer ratings had nothing to do with it?

Why do you keep bringing up this nonsense, when you KNOW that's not the way IOC funding works? We've went through this. In detail. I can only conclude that you are intent on pushing something dishonestly.

 

[Wiggo Warrior]

I was under the impression it was 2 mechanicals, and then the spare back was slightly wrongly geared which did for him on the steep part. So 2 mechanicals, and 1 mechanics.

Do you know if he had to change to his own spare bike already on the mechanical on the first climb? It was pre-TV cameras so I am not sure. If he did then the second spare he ended up on after the second mechanical may have been set up for another rider, Knees most likely as they are similar sizes.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I was under the impression it was 2 mechanicals, and then the spare back was slightly wrongly geared which did for him on the steep part. So 2 mechanicals, and 1 mechanics.

#1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2WWINVDXEzU#t=742s

Watch the spinning.

#2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2WWINVDXEzU#t=1288s

#3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2WWINVDXEzU#t=1313s

#4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2WWINVDXEzU#t=1346s

 

[zalacain]

Could be the electronic motor malfunctioned?
ShimaNO

 

[thehog]

Could be the electronic motor malfunctioned?
ShimaNO

His cadence was so high the electronics couldn't keep up.

They need to have it set to Dawg mode.

Should be fine by the Giro.