Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

Page 798 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Feb 10, 2010
10,645
20
22,510
kingjr said:
They don't have Leinders now and their '13 might become even better than their '12.

I think you are leaping to the conclusion that Lienders was their doping doctor.

We know Lienders doped riders. We know he was hired by Sky. Sky tries to cover.

The how they are doping remains an open question that will probably be disclosed years from now.
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
3
0
JimmyFingers said:
My basic position has always been I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt to any rider or team unless proven otherwise. This was a crass move, the hiring and firing of Leinders, and as Franklin puts so well, asks major questions of Brailsford's management.

Has it really? Strange that you think 40% of the peloton is doping then. Maybe only british riders get the benefit of the doubt ;)
 
Jul 24, 2009
2,579
58
11,580
JimmyFingers said:
OR we find out they are on the level
Yes, like the universally respected investigative journalist
Paul Kimmage wrote in the MailOnline 22 July 2012:
"There is nothing to suggest that Bradley Wiggins achieved
yesterdays historic victory through anything other than
talent and hard work."
 
Mar 18, 2009
14,644
81
22,580
DirtyWorks said:
All true. Just a gentle reminder that Sky has the same relationship with BC that USPS had with USAC. The head of the enforcement organization is directly involved with running Sky. Better than Wiesel ever did, the head of BC is on the UCI management committee.

It is worse than that because BC has a ton of public money being funneled into their organization. They have a huge incentive to cover-up any scandal.
 
May 26, 2009
4,114
0
0
Just seen a pre-Giro interview with Wiggins and he said his favourite memory from the Giro's he has ridden is from 2003, when he rode alongside the 'great Marco Pantani'. Wiggans the super cycling fan is aware that Pantani was a doper,right?
 
Jun 14, 2010
34,930
60
22,580
Wasn't that interview done with his sponsor? May have been sky (considering they are his sponsor and they are an evil organization) told him before - look well ask you what your favorite giro memory is and these italian folks love pantani + theres a film coming out about him so say pantani.

btw i see wiggins has had his hair shaved for an ugly new look. Did Bailsford or froome put him up to it? In professional wrestling thats the kind of look performers adopt when its their turn to play the bad guy so that children (or in this case sky fans) know who to cheer for.
 
Sep 14, 2009
6,300
3,561
23,180
Wallace and Gromit said:
It's nigh on impossible that Froome and Wiggo are exactly matched in terms of ability and favoured terrain, so one or other of them will be best suited to a particular course. Hayles thinks this is Wiggins. You don't. One of you is right, but we don't know yet!

Well, yes we do, actually. When it comes to the big cols, Froome has proven to be a better climber. How many MTFs and HC climbs did last year's race have compared to this year's?

Wallace and Gromit said:
Froome's supposed superiority is deduced from a couple of short attacks. Other than these, Wiggo matched Froome and demolished him in the TTs, so Froome's claim - or anyone else's on his behalf - to be the strongest rider last year are tenuous at best. He might well have been the best climber, but as he and Wiggo weren't allowed to race the climbs, we'll never know. He is certainly a more explosive climber than Wiggo, but whether he could make such explosiveness count against Wiggo's turbodiesel is another matter altogether.


Ah, but it's not just last year's tour. Who has consistently shown to be a better climber.
 
Feb 1, 2011
9,403
2,275
20,680
BYOP88 said:
Just seen a pre-Giro interview with Wiggins and he said his favourite memory from the Giro's he has ridden is from 2003, when he rode alongside the 'great Marco Pantani'. Wiggans the super cycling fan is aware that Pantani was a doper,right?

Pantani was a doper, no doubt, but yet he's still one of the most beloved people in cycling period, especially in Italy. Can't someone like Wiggins be a fan too? I don't think anyone would blame Nibali or Basso or whoever for saying something like that a couple days before the start of the Giro.
 
Jan 20, 2013
897
0
0
oldcrank said:
Yes, like the universally respected investigative journalist
Paul Kimmage wrote in the MailOnline 22 July 2012:
"There is nothing to suggest that Bradley Wiggins achieved
yesterdays historic victory through anything other than
talent and hard work."

Ha ha.. An attempt to keep his job perhaps?
 
Jul 1, 2011
1,566
10
10,510
Franklin said:
He's the boss, he's responsible. And my opinion about him knowing about Leinders is just part of the lies. Verifiable lies are made about the tenure of Leinders. That's not my opinion, that's simply factual.



Why do I despise Dave? (note I would amnesty him along with the lot)

1. The guy hiring the staff and medics is still there.
2. He acted against his own ethical mantra.
3. The doctor he hired really is bad news.
4. How he got to the decision is exactly the important point, not to be dismissed as you seem to do. Everyone could point out the rotten apples, yet he did hire them. He should have chosen different people or be open about it from the start.

So to sum it up: if you don't drum "we are zero-tolerance", I can't be mad at employing people with a past. But if you beat that drum and then apply crooks like Leinders and Yates... well, you deserve all the scorn you will recieve.

What's also important is that there is absolutely no control scheme in place. All I can do is believe Dave on blue eyes. the problem is that Dave is not in the habit of telling the truth. On a bizarre note... Dave himself denounced people who lie as they are used to lying. It was a rather surreal interview.

Lastly, you might only read the Sky threads, but I have a habit of pointing out rotten doctors (hello Doctor Menuet, hey Doctor Massimiliano Mantovani , hi there Marco Pallini).

Thanks for clarifying, it makes more sense now - you'd reluctantly have to give him an amnesty, but through gritted teeth cos you hate him. Which makes perfect sense.

By the way, I don't 'only' read the Sky threads, but I don't read the entire forum either (as I have limited time) - so I'd be really interested in those other docs (none of which I know much about). What are the best threads to read up on them?

Finally, out of interest, what are the verifiable lies about Leinders? Amidst all the accusations that fly around I lose track.
 
Dec 13, 2012
1,859
0
0
BYOP88 said:
Just seen a pre-Giro interview with Wiggins and he said his favourite memory from the Giro's he has ridden is from 2003, when he rode alongside the 'great Marco Pantani'. Wiggans the super cycling fan is aware that Pantani was a doper,right?

His other idol is Indurain.
 
Jul 17, 2012
2,051
0
0
SundayRider said:
His other idol is Indurain.

It would be difficult to be growing from a kid to an adult in the 1990s, as Wiggo did, and have an idol/hero from cycling that wasn't an EPO abuser.

Pantani was great, even if he was a doper. He dished it out to Ullrich in 1998 on the Galibier / Les Deuz Alpes, and for the excitement of that single stage, I will be forever grateful to the PED-abusing, class-A drug using cheat.

One of my footballing heroes is Paul Gascoigne. Doesn't mean I'm an alcoholic, kebab abusing wife-beater. Another is Diego Maradonna. Doesn't mean I want Argentina to have sovereignty over Las Malvinas.

I don't think there's a particularly strong "cause/effect" relationship between having a flawed hero and replicating the flaws of said hero, but who knows?
 
Sep 29, 2012
12,197
0
0
Fearless Greg Lemond said:

Yeah typical Sky fangirl misquoting.

Here's what Kimmage actually wrote:

Some 86 per cent of Tour de France winners since Tommy Simpson’s death have been tarnished or implicated by doping. There is nothing to suggest that Bradley Wiggins achieved yesterday’s historic victory through anything other than talent and hard work. But at this time of glory, why does Team Sky leave itself open to insinuation by employing Leinders?

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...-drug-demons--Paul-Kimmage.html#ixzz2SDzypp2T
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
Jun 14, 2010
34,930
60
22,580
spalco said:
Pantani was a doper, no doubt, but yet he's still one of the most beloved people in cycling period, especially in Italy. Can't someone like Wiggins be a fan too? I don't think anyone would blame Nibali or Basso or whoever for saying something like that a couple days before the start of the Giro.

I agree that it's not that big a deal but it's not he same as if basso and Nibali said it because they aren't going round telling everyone they personally made cycling clean and all the other crap about how anti doping and open they are.
 
Jul 17, 2012
5,303
0
0
the sceptic said:
Has it really? Strange that you think 40% of the peloton is doping then. Maybe only british riders get the benefit of the doubt ;)

Massive strawman as usual, completely misrepresenting me and throwing in some bigotry to boot. Classy
 
Jan 20, 2013
897
0
0
Dear Wiggo said:
Yeah typical Sky fangirl misquoting.

Here's what Kimmage actually wrote:

Who is Sky fan girl?

I have read the quote before and it is questioning why? but "nothing to suggest" when over 80% of the peloton are tarnished, yet you can still win it pure as the driven snow? Not exactly tooth and nail rooting for the trut' and nothing but the trut' journalism.
 
Apr 20, 2012
6,320
0
0
Spencer the Half Wit said:
IMO it's a case of "I don't know if you dope and I have got no concrete evidence to suggest you do but I have some suspicions", which is a perfectly reasonable view to have. The one thing about Kimmage is that if he ever does get evidence he will not keep it quiet.
That would be what I made/make of it too.