Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[richtea]

I got the impression from the press release they simply presented details of their riders' SRM files alongside their training schedules to illustrate the progressions they have made. One possibility is that there is no agenda other than an mutual enthusiasm for the sport and the work they are doing, but such a meeting will inevitably arouse suspicions.

 

[Der Effe]

What will the dopers have in store for us today? My guess is Knees will be on front of the peloton the entire race, close the gap to the race leaders just before La Toussuire (yeah I know that's pretty late but he was playing Solitaire on his new iPhone, a present from Rupert Murdoch who really loves his boys) and win the race riding his bike on the rear wheel.

Any more predictions?

 

[taiwan]

Someone posted a twitter conversation of Vaughters BTW, saying that meetins with race organisers are normal. Didn't particularly mention presentations of individual riders' training data though.

What will the dopers have in store for us today? My guess is Knees will be on front of the peloton the entire race, close the gap to the race leaders just before La Toussuire (yeah I know that's pretty late but he was playing Solitaire on his new iPhone, a present from Rupert Murdoch who really loves his boys) and win the race riding his bike on the rear wheel.

Any more predictions?

TBH I guess they just mark the GC top 5. It'll only get stupid if they accidentally put everyone out the back with Porte or Rogers before, or early on, the final climb.

 

[Poursuivant]

Nibali now saying he didnt wave at him, he looked at him. Nibali is a bit of a moaner as well people, on tv it didnt look disrespectful, just checking who was in group.

 

[hrotha]

What will the dopers have in store for us today? My guess is Knees will be on front of the peloton the entire race, close the gap to the race leaders just before La Toussuire (yeah I know that's pretty late but he was playing Solitaire on his new iPhone, a present from Rupert Murdoch who really loves his boys) and win the race riding his bike on the rear wheel.

Any more predictions?

I don't think Knees is one of the Happy Tree Friends. A German, and a late recruit from Milram, no less; not one to trust with the program. He hasn't quite been at this usual level at Sky so far either.

 

[Square-pedaller]

I got the impression from the press release they simply presented details of their riders' SRM files alongside their training schedules to illustrate the progressions they have made. One possibility is that there is no agenda other than an mutual enthusiasm for the sport and the work they are doing, but such a meeting will inevitably arouse suspicions.

I'm not coming at this from the angle that the meetings were suspicious (which they might be, but that's not my point).

My point is that showing ASO 'training data' does not constitute any kind of 'transparency'. It's irrelevant to transparency.

 

[taiwan]

That might be true, but is irrelevant to what I'm thinking about.

I'm coming from the transparency argument. Some have argued that Sky have indeed been transparent with ASO, but not with the public because they can't be expected to give their training etc methods away.

My point (and my query was to find out if it's valid) is that 'training data' do not provide any reassurance that a team is not doping. What might do so are the passport data. And there is no reason not to release those publicly, since they do not give away to other teams what you are doing to get an edge. That is, of course, provided everything is legit.

It would be quite easy to make up passport data, but I guess that would be relatively open to discovery, and once revealed would have major PR (at least) consequences.

I don't think it's about doping directly, just about ASO seeing that they're running a convincing operation.

I keep considering what ASO's interest is, I'd be interested to hear peoples' thoughts on this. Presumably just to have an outwardly credible and marketable event?

 

[Markyboyzx6r]

Genuine question...

What do Sky need to publish in order for people to believe they are achieving this success by non-doping means? How do they bridge the credibility gap?

 

[Fidolix]

Sorry if this subject has already been up, but 200 posts is a bit much to go through, so please bare with me if it has.

But from what I´ve seen and heard from the media so far, then team SKY hired a former national swim coach as physical trainer (forgot his name) for the team.

His philosophy is to keep the athletes on 90 - 95% of top peak through the season and never top. And this should be the secret to SKY´s great success the whole year.
Wiggins stated in an interview during the tour that its important not to have any bad days and not to have any exceptional days either, meaning staying on the lower level and never reach top form, and he have also stated they only rode on 90%.

Question: So according to this, Wiggins and team SKY should be able to dominate the entire tour, only by riding on a level of 90% form, over contenders that we have to assume are peaking with top form, and they do this only by being on 90% of their maximum form?

I find this very hard to be true, and considering the form wiggins been showing all season, it just makes it more unbelievable and harder to grasp.

A new training concept and you suddenly dominate the entire season?

 

[Caruut]

It's been 2000 posts, and that has been the jist of quite a few

 

[Square-pedaller]

Genuine question...

What do Sky need to publish in order for people to believe they are achieving this success by non-doping means? How do they bridge the credibility gap?

Not an expert, but they could start by publishing their passport data.

The tragedy of doping is that it's (virtually) impossible for someone to prove that they're clean. However, not behaving like you've got something to hide is a good place to make a start.

 

[Catwhoorg]

You know what? I hereby apologize. I read your original post as saying something quite different -- basically, "science can mean whatever you want it to!" -- which with further nuance it sounds like wasn't really your point. If it was, hell, getting my degree would have been a lot easier.

Misread, sorry.

Fully accepted...
*clinks beer*

 

[taiwan]

Sorry if this subject has already been up, but 200 posts is a bit much to go through, so please bare with me if it has.

But from what I´ve seen and heard from the media so far, then team SKY hired a former national swim coach as physical trainer (forgot his name) for the team.

His philosophy is to keep the athletes on 90 - 95% of top peak through the season and never top. And this should be the secret to SKY´s great success the whole year.
Wiggins stated in an interview during the tour that its important not to have any bad days and not to have any exceptional days either, meaning staying on the lower level and never reach top form, and he have also stated they only rode on 90%.

Question: So according to this, Wiggins and team SKY should be able to dominate the entire tour, only by riding on a level of 90% form, over contenders that we have to assume are peaking with top form, and they do this only by being on 90% of their maximum form?

I find this very hard to be true, and considering the form wiggins been showing all season, it just makes it more unbelievable and harder to grasp.

A new training concept and you suddenly dominate the entire season?

I suppose if you lean on the team more and everyone is at 90% then you can control individual rivals on top form. Thing is everyone looks to be riding as well as they ever have. Froome is on 2011 Vuelta form. Rogers claims he's producing his best ever numbers. Porte can climb again. Wiggins is climbing as well as anyone, and TTing better than anyone in the race.

 

[taiwan]

Genuine question...

What do Sky need to publish in order for people to believe they are achieving this success by non-doping means? How do they bridge the credibility gap?

Retroactive testing of samples in a few years' time? Embedding of a credible reporter/other?

 

[thingswelike]

I just watched the main group come over the line again. Wiggins is looking back at group, while Nibali is off to the side. I don't get it. Definitely no hand gesture. Unless they are talking about a different moment.

Nibali does seem like a real stirrer though. I kind of liked it when it was vs Contador, but now it just seems desperate.

It was almost working at the top of yesterday's descent. You could see Brad thinking "I'll show him that I can descend", but that's exactly what Nibbles wants.

 

[Benotti69]

Ring all season at 90% is almost a guarantee to fail.

Why?

Because there will always be riders turning up to the races peaking at 100%.

Everyone GC riders prepares to reach 98-100% for the TdF. So how can TeamSky win it at 90-95%. Some GC contenders will have got their prep wrong and not arrive at 98-100% , but lots will have got it right.

Have we yet to hear Brailsford state at this years tour they are clean and do not dope?

 

[noddy69]

I just watched the main group come over the line again. Wiggins is looking back at group, while Nibali is off to the side. I don't get it. Definitely no hand gesture. Unless they are talking about a different moment.

Nibali does seem like a real stirrer though. I kind of liked it when it was vs Contador, but now it just seems desperate.

It was almost working at the top of yesterday's descent. You could see Brad thinking "I'll show him that I can descend", but that's exactly what Nibbles wants.

Nibali is just trying to get into Bradleys head. People believe him to be fragile in that dept ( I dont disagree from what he has come out with ) and Nibs is just trying to exploit that. Basically a nothing story to get to Wiggins.

 

[thingswelike]

Have we yet to hear Brailsford state at this years tour they are clean and do not dope?

Brailsford definitely has said it:

"we are not doping and we know we’re not going to dope”

“I don’t know the story, or what the guy has done but another one getting arrested under suspicion is the last thing you want to read. It makes me more determined that we keep doing it the right way, that we do it clean and that we prove you can win the biggest bike races clean.”

Both of these were in relation to being questioned about Dr Leinders:
http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-a...ses-doctor-dilemma-we-are-100-per-cent-clean/

 

[richtea]

Ring all season at 90% is almost a guarantee to fail.

Why?

Because there will always be riders turning up to the races peaking at 100%.

Everyone GC riders prepares to reach 98-100% for the TdF. So how can TeamSky win it at 90-95%. Some GC contenders will have got their prep wrong and not arrive at 98-100% , but lots will have got it right.

Have we yet to hear Brailsford state at this years tour they are clean and do not dope?

I don't think Wiggins rode Romandie at 90% (I didn't think he looked particularly good in that race) - the course just flattered him: any race with no real obstacles to get over and a couple of time trials, Wiggins will clearly now be a top favourite since he is a class apart in TT compared to other GC types. You may of course have another view. On the other point, I think Brailsford did state that a couple of days ago?

 

[Der Effe]

I don't think Knees is one of the Happy Tree Friends. A German, and a late recruit from Milram, no less; not one to trust with the program. He hasn't quite been at this usual level at Sky so far either.

Just using an old tactic my friend, just using an old tactic. Trying to get the attention off Porte, Froome and Rogers. Sky pays me big money for it, like their owners do for tapping people's phone or supporting conservative politicians to take over the world! This yellow jersey is one step closer to world dominancy, soon we all will be watching Sky, the lovely Fox News and reading The Sun!

 

[gingerwallaceafro]

Sorry if this subject has already been up, but 200 posts is a bit much to go through, so please bare with me if it has.

But from what I´ve seen and heard from the media so far, then team SKY hired a former national swim coach as physical trainer (forgot his name) for the team.

His philosophy is to keep the athletes on 90 - 95% of top peak through the season and never top. And this should be the secret to SKY´s great success the whole year.
Wiggins stated in an interview during the tour that its important not to have any bad days and not to have any exceptional days either, meaning staying on the lower level and never reach top form, and he have also stated they only rode on 90%.

Question: So according to this, Wiggins and team SKY should be able to dominate the entire tour, only by riding on a level of 90% form, over contenders that we have to assume are peaking with top form, and they do this only by being on 90% of their maximum form?

I find this very hard to be true, and considering the form wiggins been showing all season, it just makes it more unbelievable and harder to grasp.

A new training concept and you suddenly dominate the entire season?

I'll try and find it, there was some dudes blog examining what Wiggo's been doing differently this season. He's been concentrating on his high intensity stuff very early in the season and sticking a good number of quality blocks at altitude in.

The guy goes..Meanwhile here's what Frank and Andy were doing.. (photo of the bro's in a swimming pool playing with a dolphin). Cracked me up!

 

[Benotti69]

I don't think Wiggins rode Romandie at 90% (I didn't think he looked particularly good in that race) - the course just flattered him: any race with no real obstacles to get over and a couple of time trials, Wiggins will clearly now be a top favourite since he is a class apart in TT compared to other GC types. You may of course have another view. On the other point, I think Brailsford did state that a couple of days ago?

I dont think Wiggins or sky are riding at 90%. I think the statement if how they manage to win all season is complete BS, up there with High Cadence and change in body shape and big hearts etc

 

[Caruut]

I'll try and find it, there was some dudes blog examining what Wiggo's been doing differently this season. He's been concentrating on his high intensity stuff very early in the season and sticking a good number of quality blocks at altitude in.

The guy goes..Meanwhile here's what Frank and Andy were doing.. (photo of the bro's in a swimming pool playing with a dolphin). Cracked me up!

Wasn't the dolphin at the end-of-season crits in Curacao?

Training harder is a ridiculous excuse - it's bike racing, everyone trains harder. Training better - I'll believe it when they tell me how it's done. If they don't want to tell me so they can preserve their advantage, then that's fine, but they have to live with me not believing it. Perhaps they don't give a **** what the fans think, but they should.

 

[veganrob]

Claiming to be racing at 90% is just an insult to the intelligence of everyone with a brain.
Believing it then is...well I have no words for.

 

[RownhamHill]

Claiming to be racing at 90% is just an insult to the intelligence of everyone with a brain.
Believing it then is...well I have no words for.

Ermm, I don't have the link, but I think I remember Wiggins saying he was trying to stay at 90% of his potential power output (not sure exactly how they measure it - presumably watts on their power meters) as he went up the entire climb of planche de filles - which is normal, because once you go over 90% you go into 'the red' and then after a very short time you have to stop ( being at 100% for example means you're sprinting flat out, and no one can keep that up too long, certainly not over a 6k climb).

So racing up a hill at 90% FTP is not an insult to anyone's intelligence (unless you think that he stayed at 90% for too long, as keeping that kind of intensity up for any length of time is easier said than done)