Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[burning]

Actually I can see why Sky look so powerful these days

One of biggest opponent is annoyed by a look, how can you expect people to do something?

 

[maxmartin]

Actually I can see why Sky look so powerful these days

One of biggest opponent is annoyed by a look, how can you expect people to do something?

not just a look, there is hand gesture involved

 

[Maxiton]

not just a look, there is hand gesture involved

Did Wigons merely wave, or did he flip Nibali the middle finger?

Or I guess in the UK two fingers.

 

[maxmartin]

Did Wigons merely wave, or did he flip Nibali the middle finger?

Or I guess in the UK two fingers.

webbie146
Senior Member

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 167

Did you guys hear what Wiggings did when Nibali was caught back??

When Nibali was caught Wiggins made a gesture with his hand to Nibali shaking his finger. Kinda like 'don't do this again, don't attack again on the decent'...

Wiggins is such a ****ing **** but **** like that won't intimidate Nibali that's for sure!

Edit: Heard it actually happened at the finish..

Also from Tei6chai

I refer you to my comment on the same topic in the Wiggins thread:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpos...&postcount=990

I am an Italian-speaking fan of the Shark, who loves watching his interviews, cos he is a prolific, and often quite subtle, sh*t-stirrer.

He is always winding up other riders, but he almost always words his insults ambiguously, so that there's always a plausible (and seemingly innocent) alternative explanation of his meaning.

I suspect that most english-speaking journos, and even native Italian translators without intimate knowledge of Italian cycling, usually miss the subtlties.

 

[Normandy]

Of course one cannot verify the story but It is not an anti Wiggins piece in itself and the writer could not have foreseen Wiggins' current position. Also the idea that you could compete clean on the track but not on the road was a common thought at the time and given as a reason why British cyclists were successful on the track but not on the road.

There was no team Sky, Cavendish hadn't won a stage and the last Brit to win anything of note was the banned David miller.

The question is "what has changed?"

Either the sport must be cleaner or Wiggins must be dirtier.

There is no alternative

The question is why are Sky so secretive of their 'methods' if they are doing everthing clean and legal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ol...pics-Dave-Brailsford-plots-cycling-glory.html

Brailsford admits in this article that they do not want people to know what they are doing to gain competitive advantage. By being so secretative can only lead to one answer. Can somebody in the know, tell me is it normal practice for teams to do a pre tour presentation to ASO. If not, which other teams paid a visit this year.

 

[maxmartin]

The question is why are Sky so secretive of their 'methods' if they are doing everthing clean and legal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ol...pics-Dave-Brailsford-plots-cycling-glory.html

Brailsford admits in this article that they do not want people to know what they are doing to gain competitive advantage. By being so secretative can only lead to one answer. Can somebody in the know, tell me is it normal practice for teams to do a pre tour presentation to ASO. If not, which other teams paid a visit this year.

It is probably some borderline training stuff may or may not be considered doping in the future. I am almost certain at least SKY is walking on some grey area right now. I doubt they are mainly using EPO blood the old school stuff, since SKY pattern is quite different from the old school stuff especially keeping minimal weight and peaking all year around.

 

[Maxiton]

webbie146
Senior Member

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 167

Did you guys hear what Wiggings did when Nibali was caught back??

When Nibali was caught Wiggins made a gesture with his hand to Nibali shaking his finger. Kinda like 'don't do this again, don't attack again on the decent'...

Wiggins is such a ****ing **** but **** like that won't intimidate Nibali that's for sure!

Edit: Heard it actually happened at the finish..

Also from Tei6chai

I refer you to my comment on the same topic in the Wiggins thread:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpos...&postcount=990

I am an Italian-speaking fan of the Shark, who loves watching his interviews, cos he is a prolific, and often quite subtle, sh*t-stirrer.

He is always winding up other riders, but he almost always words his insults ambiguously, so that there's always a plausible (and seemingly innocent) alternative explanation of his meaning.

I suspect that most english-speaking journos, and even native Italian translators without intimate knowledge of Italian cycling, usually miss the subtlties.

Thanks.

dryraeyay

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

festinagirl ‏@festinagirl
Perhaps because Leinders role at Rabobank was to manage rider's haematocrits to stay below 50%?

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
@festinagirl 50% rule no longer exists. Broader profile is used instead.

Oh, well, I guess it's alright then.

 

[thehog]

Did Wigons merely wave, or did he flip Nibali the middle finger?

Or I guess in the UK two fingers.

In England two fingers has serious connotations. It's V for victory from wartime. For most Europeans it's considered offensive. If it was done in a reversed fashion to denote "up yours" and then turned around for "victory" the Wiggins has a big problem. Serious problem.

 

[Kender]

In England two fingers has serious connotations. It's V for victory from wartime. For most Europeans it's considered offensive. If it was done in a reversed fashion to denote "up yours" and then turned around for "victory" the Wiggins has a big problem. Serious problem.

the legend goes that the original 2 finger salute was done by english longbowmen as an insult to the french. English and Welsh archers captured by the french would have their index and middle fingers cut off so they could no longer fire their bows.

The 2 finger salute therefore became a show of defiance and an insult showing the enemy they could still shoot them

 

[ellenbrook2001]

gesture

any sport men or in the past where rude or bad gesture all has been convicted taking drugs i did see year back some rider been caught by the peloton but the yellow jersey would give a pad on the back saying well down mate but we did caught up again lol that hes professional sport has WEGGING hes a weighing pom give a bad example too hes followers especially the young one hes attitude hes i got the yellow jersey so i am the boss do what i say hahaha funny,such domination from the sky from the beginning of the season hes very suspicious i don't care what they say they are not on coca cola what ever you train hard has he say you cannot today has a professional performed on every race has WEGGINGS no having a bad day ,do not worry one day they will be caught,same has ARMONSTRONG of course he has 500 test but knowing how the test are performed hes easy too mask the product he was taking i do hope the one did talk give what procedure they did used too mask the product the high profile athlete paying up too one hundred thousand of euro a year too laboratory too avoid too be caught ,that why hes impossible too catch up the cheater only the small fish get caught cause he cannot afford it.

 

[observer]

any sport men or in the past where rude or bad gesture all has been convicted taking drugs i did see year back some rider been caught by the peloton but the yellow jersey would give a pad on the back saying well down mate but we did caught up again lol that hes professional sport has WEGGING hes a weighing pom give a bad example too hes followers especially the young one hes attitude hes i got the yellow jersey so i am the boss do what i say hahaha funny,such domination from the sky from the beginning of the season hes very suspicious i don't care what they say they are not on coca cola what ever you train hard has he say you cannot today has a professional performed on every race has WEGGINGS no having a bad day ,do not worry one day they will be caught,same has ARMONSTRONG of course he has 500 test but knowing how the test are performed hes easy too mask the product he was taking i do hope the one did talk give what procedure they did used too mask the product the high profile athlete paying up too one hundred thousand of euro a year too laboratory too avoid too be caught ,that why hes impossible too catch up the cheater only the small fish get caught cause he cannot afford it.

yeah! i agree!

oh....

 

[filipo]

Science (especially biological science) is simply not cut and dried. there can be reasonable guys making opposite conclusions based on the same data, with no-one really raising an eyebrow. That why we have peer review and look to build consensus.

But when it gets to courts, politics and journalists, there are enough scientists who will sell out to make a fast buck.

You know what? I hereby apologize. I read your original post as saying something quite different -- basically, "science can mean whatever you want it to!" -- which with further nuance it sounds like wasn't really your point. If it was, hell, getting my degree would have been a lot easier.

Misread, sorry.

 

[yourwelcome]

the legend goes that the original 2 finger salute was done by english longbowmen as an insult to the french. English and Welsh archers captured by the french would have their index and middle fingers cut off so they could no longer fire their bows.

The 2 finger salute therefore became a show of defiance and an insult showing the enemy they could still shoot them

Yeah well, so we just have to wait for the French to catch him.

Allez, gendarme ;-)

 

[Dalakhani]

Brailsford admits in this article that they do not want people to know what they are doing to gain competitive advantage. By being so secretative can only lead to one answer.

I don't share your logic. If you'd figured out something that gave you an edge, would you tell all your opponents about it prior to the Tour?

I wouldn't.

Can somebody in the know, tell me is it normal practice for teams to do a pre tour presentation to ASO. If not, which other teams paid a visit this year.

Visiting the ASO could have been pre-emptive. Sky may have concluded that they were going to set off so many alarm bells, that they should present their defence prior to the race so ASO would be re-assured when they saw Sky riding the race to pieces.

I don't know. These 2 things aren't the things that concern me about Sky right now.

 

[taiwan]

Can somebody in the know, tell me is it normal practice for teams to do a pre tour presentation to ASO. If not, which other teams paid a visit this year.

Not saying I'm in the know but this is what was said.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sky-meeting-with-aso-is-routine-team-says

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Any sport men or in the past where rude or bad gesture all has been convicted taking drugs.
I did see year back some rider been caught by the peloton but the yellow jersey would give a pad on the back saying well down mate but we did caught up again, lol.
That hes professional sport has WEGGING hes a weighing pom give a bad example too hes followers especially the young one.
Hes attitude hes i got the yellow jersey so i am the boss do what i say, hahaha funny,such domination from the sky from the beginning of the season hes very suspicious.
I don't care what they say they are not on coca cola what ever you train hard.
Has he say you cannot today has a professional performed on every race has WEGGINGS no having a bad day ,do not worry one day they will be caught,same has ARMONSTRONG.
Of course he has 500 test but knowing how the test are performed hes easy too mask the product he was taking.
I do hope the one did talk give what procedure they did used too mask the product.
The high profile athlete paying up too one hundred thousand of euro a year too laboratory too avoid too be caught ,that why hes impossible too catch up the cheater, only the small fish get caught cause he cannot afford it.

You could be on the right path.

About Wiggins getting easily angry, that off course could be a clean sign of steroids.

 

[noddy69]

Not saying I'm in the know but this is what was said.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sky-meeting-with-aso-is-routine-team-says

I didnt see much wrong with what they did. In fact I welcomed it as the team doing what they could to be open. However they are not living up to that expectation at the moment, and the vibes coming out of sky at the moment on doping and transparency are anything but what they preached to the media in that article.

 

[barn yard]

I don't share your logic. If you'd figured out something that gave you an edge, would you tell all your opponents about it prior to the Tour?

I wouldn't.

there is nothing legal that can be figured out 'to give you an edge' of this size at this level of competition

we've heard it all before

 

[taiwan]

I didnt see much wrong with what they did. In fact I welcomed it as the team doing what they could to be open. However they are not living up to that expectation at the moment, and the vibes coming out of sky at the moment on doping and transparency are anything but what they preached to the media in that article.

The fact they had a meeting doesn't mean that much itself, but overall the relationship appears a very cozy one. I suspect that many strings are being pulled to remove obstacles for the team.

 

[D Avoid]

I can see Wigans being upset at the camera guy for being so careless, but that was over the top. Not like he didn't have ample room to brake and move.


Porte should be thrilled today. A relative nobody who shelled GC contenders and single-handedly chased down the Nibali/Sagan tandem. What's to be upset about?

Being an Wanchor and a cant!!

 

[Square-pedaller]

I have followed cycling for some years, but am not involved in sports myself, so know nothing about the technicalities of training. There are a couple of things that I don't understand about Sky's presentation to ASO:
1) What sort of things would the 'training data' actually consist of? Could it easily be faked, or even just made up?
2) Why would these training data be any evidence that there was not (also) some doping going on? It seems to me that the question is not whether a given rider is capable of producing a given power output (or whatever), but why that rider is capable of doing it. Do the training data answer that question?

 

[taiwan]

I have followed cycling for some years, but am not involved in sports myself, so know nothing about the technicalities of training. There are a couple of things that I don't understand about Sky's presentation to ASO:
1) What sort of things would the 'training data' actually consist of? Could it easily be faked, or even just made up?
2) Why would these training data be any evidence that there was not (also) some doping going on? It seems to me that the question is not whether a given rider is capable of producing a given power output (or whatever), but why that rider is capable of doing it. Do the training data answer that question?

IMO they want reassured that they will have a Lance, but not a Ricco. They want a well managed parade toward a certain outcome.

 

[Frosty]

He checked out cyclingnews.com forums, and could read that his 'fantastic job' today was further proof of systematic doping at Team Sky, that he himself was **** and a nobody prior to 2012, etc.

Post of the thread

 

[Square-pedaller]

IMO they want reassured that they will have a Lance, but not a Ricco. They want a well managed parade toward a certain outcome.

That might be true, but is irrelevant to what I'm thinking about.

I'm coming from the transparency argument. Some have argued that Sky have indeed been transparent with ASO, but not with the public because they can't be expected to give their training etc methods away.

My point (and my query was to find out if it's valid) is that 'training data' do not provide any reassurance that a team is not doping. What might do so are the passport data. And there is no reason not to release those publicly, since they do not give away to other teams what you are doing to get an edge. That is, of course, provided everything is legit.

It would be quite easy to make up passport data, but I guess that would be relatively open to discovery, and once revealed would have major PR (at least) consequences.