Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[SundayRider]

I see.

Also, you do know that wiggins was a part time road cyclist before 09?

Never heard of a part time roadie even attempting to do GC at a grand tour before.

Rubbish, a 'part timer' wouldn't have got round.

 

[Matty_Tucks]

I've been close to British Cycling for years. I fail to believe that Sky, essentially a BC export, could be involved in that.

 

[SundayRider]

I've been close to British Cycling for years. I fail to believe that Sky, essentially a BC export, could be involved in that.

Why? And don't insult us with the 'its just no the British way'.

 

[badboygolf16v]

I've been close to British Cycling for years. I fail to believe that Sky, essentially a BC export, could be involved in that.

Do you fail to believe that proven doping doctor Geert Leinders would be involved in doping?

How many meetings with Dave Brailsford or Dr Leinders did you attend?

 

[Matty_Tucks]

Why? And don't insult us with the 'its just no the British way'.

It's a question of culture, not nationality. Besides, BC is full of people from all over the world.

 

[SundayRider]

It's a question of culture, not nationality. Besides, BC is full of people from all over the world.

I'm British the culture is no different essentially. The British 'culture' might exist in a few 'high society' sports but not in cycling. Anyone who has raced to even a basic level knows that cyclists push the boundaries. Google Dan Staite.

 

[Matty_Tucks]

I'm British the culture is no different essentially. The British 'culture' might exist in a few 'high society' sports but not in cycling. Anyone who has raced to even a basic level knows that cyclists push the boundaries. Google Dan Staite.

Of course, but this a British rider possibly not representative of British Cycling's culture, as in the institution.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Here we go with the culture thing again.

 

[timmers]

Here we go with the culture thing again.

Are you suggesting that "culture", the way one is raised and the values that one adopts are irrelevant in teenage and adult life?

I would suggest that the latest evidence ,"di Luca", supports my view and that the previous culture of Italian cycling is no longer the norm.

I find it offensive when posters on this forum state with certainty that all riders dope! The evidence from Puerto and other investigations is that some riders dope but to suggest that every pro dopes is stupid. But unfortunately the environment here is not conducive to aiding the process of getting cheats out of the sport or minimising their impact.

Like others I saw di Luca doing unbelievable performances years ago but how do you prove it?

We need a culture of naming cheats as cheats!

 

[Jack (6 ch)]

It's a question of culture, not nationality. Besides, BC is full of people from all over the world.

British culture and history is laden with frauds in all walks of life: sport (cheating diving footballers), finance (mis-selling, Libor rigging), commerce (horse meat sausages), politics (Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitken).

You must be on a wind-up.

 

[Benotti69]

Tom Simpson.

 

[Netserk]

Ofc culture matter.

The culture of cycling.

The culture of dope.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Are you suggesting that "culture", the way one is raised and the values that one adopts are irrelevant in teenage and adult life?

I would suggest that the latest evidence ,"di Luca", supports my view and that the previous culture of Italian cycling is no longer the norm.

I find it offensive when posters on this forum state with certainty that all riders dope! The evidence from Puerto and other investigations is that some riders dope but to suggest that every pro dopes is stupid. But unfortunately the environment here is not conducive to aiding the process of getting cheats out of the sport or minimising their impact.

Like others I saw di Luca doing unbelievable performances years ago but how do you prove it?

We need a culture of naming cheats as cheats!

Culture as in sky/wiggins/froome will not dope because it is not in british culture to dope/cheat.( source: Folks posting here have said it)

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I've been close to British Cycling for years. I fail to believe that Sky, essentially a BC export, could be involved in that.

Can you tell us a bit about BC's no needle policy?

 

[Matty_Tucks]

Are you suggesting that "culture", the way one is raised and the values that one adopts are irrelevant in teenage and adult life?

I would suggest that the latest evidence ,"di Luca", supports my view and that the previous culture of Italian cycling is no longer the norm.

I find it offensive when posters on this forum state with certainty that all riders dope! The evidence from Puerto and other investigations is that some riders dope but to suggest that every pro dopes is stupid. But unfortunately the environment here is not conducive to aiding the process of getting cheats out of the sport or minimising their impact.

Like others I saw di Luca doing unbelievable performances years ago but how do you prove it?

We need a culture of naming cheats as cheats!

I support this view.

 

[martinvickers]

Culture as in sky/wiggins/froome will not dope because it is not in british culture to dope/cheat.( source: Folks posting here have said it)

sigh....

Froome has nothing to do with whatever 'British' cycling culture might be. He's basically a Saffer under a flag of convenience, and indicative of nothing.

And OF COURSE brits cheat. All nations have cheats - it's not flippin' genetic.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

The evidence from Puerto and other investigations is that some riders dope but to suggest that every pro dopes is stupid.

Only the succesfull non - Anglos, McQuaid was right after all;

http://ftp.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jan07/jan08news

''McQuaid starts cultural polemic

The controversy between the International Cycling Union and some of the European federations has continued over the week-end. On Friday, UCI president Pat McQuaid said the following at a New Year's reception, which was broadcast by Dutch TV program NOS: "There is a clash going on at the moment between two cultures. The Anglo-Saxon culture and what I might call the 'Mafia' Western European culture [meaning Belgium, France, Italy and Spain - ed.]. The Western European culture has to some extent, I won't say condoned doping, but because of their culture in life, the way they deal with everything else in life, they accept certain practices.

"The Anglo-Saxon cultures, which would be the Netherlands, Germany, England, Denmark, are the complete opposite. They have a completely different approach to the doping problem. I feel that it's very important that at the end of the day, the Anglo-Saxon approach wins out. If it doesn't, then the sport is doomed."

On the week-end, Italian cycling federation president Renato Di Rocco replied to the questionable statements. "First of all, I would like to say that I find the French progress against doping very profound and valid," Di Rocco commented. "We will look to follow that example. As to the Anglo-Saxon model cited by McQuaid, we will try to stay away as much as we can from the Australian or the Canadian models - they, too, are Anglo-Saxon."

Oooops.

 

[zalacain]

I've been close to British Cycling for years. I fail to believe that Sky, essentially a BC export, could be involved in that.

I was close to BC as well and fail to believe they can be clean. Rabobank subsidised the research into supplements at Birmingham U. BC had regular symposiums there because they were using it too.
We now know about Rabobank. Are we to presume everybody else was innocent?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

sigh....

Froome has nothing to do with whatever 'British' cycling culture might be. He's basically a Saffer under a flag of convenience, and indicative of nothing.

And OF COURSE brits cheat. All nations have cheats - it's not flippin' genetic.

SIGH SIGH SIGH

I was just pointing out how tiresome and ridiculous the culture defense is.

 

[hrotha]

The only remarkable thing about British cycling culture that sets it apart from Mediterranean cycling culture is its naivety.

 

[heart_attack_man]

The only remarkable thing about British cycling culture that sets it apart from Mediterranean cycling culture is its naivety.

I couldn't agree more. It really hacks me off about these constant defences of "Oh, a rider from <insert country name here> couldn't be doping because <insert ridiculous excuse here>".

It's all cr@p. Any rider from any country can dope for any number of reasons. If you believe otherwise to this, quite frankly, you're deluded.

 

[Matty_Tucks]

sigh....

Froome has nothing to do with whatever 'British' cycling culture might be. He's basically a Saffer under a flag of convenience, and indicative of nothing.

And OF COURSE brits cheat. All nations have cheats - it's not flippin' genetic.

All nations do have cheats. But my opinion is that Sky's arrival on the scene has taken place at a time when they could be more sure that this sort of thing wasn't taking place. My interpretation is that for years, a lot of British cyclists stayed out of the European scene (save for Dave Millar, who we know what happened to) because of it's barely-concealed cheating culture.

 

[Tinman]

sigh....
All nations have cheats - it's not flippin' genetic.

I always thought the Aussies had a criminal gene, isn't that what the English reasoned for their deportation?

 

[oldcrank]

Tom Simpson.

Tom Simpson's name was dragged through the gutter
by the Tour de France organization to deflect any
examination of their responsibility in Simpson's death
due to their arcane (and criminal) four bidon per day
restriction. Shame on you for perpetuating the myth.

 

[BroDeal]

All nations do have cheats. But my opinion is that Sky's arrival on the scene has taken place at a time when they could be more sure that this sort of thing wasn't taking place. My interpretation is that for years, a lot of British cyclists stayed out of the European scene (save for Dave Millar, who we know what happened to) because of it's barely-concealed cheating culture.

Yeah, sure. Instead they stuck with competing at the Olympics, the dirtiest sporting event in the world.