Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Don't be late Pedro]

Maybe Badzilla has spread to the other riders, or maybe marginal gains only work in july.

Yep, as usual you are onto something. Sky have never podiumed in the Vuelta. In fact, even, if you go back to the last Giro you won't find a Sky rider in the top 3.

 

[roundabout]

Best rider in 19th on GC is probably below expectations though.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Best rider in 19th on GC is probably below expectations though.

Probably but then if they had podiumed it would have been more proof of doping, no? Henao lost time early and then they were f%cked. They don't want to ride for Uran since he is leaving so apart from going for stages there is not a lot else they can do.

 

[roundabout]

I am not looking at it from a doping angle. It just seems that the overall performance of the team has been down the last couple of months. Just my impression.

The only rider who really caught my eye in a positive way (heh, heh) was Stannard.

Okay, EBH was decent a couple of days ago and Wiggins did a super TT, but apart from that it seems like a rather lean post-Tour period.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I am not looking at it from a doping angle. It just seems that the overall performance of the team has been down the last couple of months. Just my impression.

The only rider who really caught my eye in a positive way (heh, heh) was Stannard.

Okay, EBH was decent a couple of days ago and Wiggins did a super TT, but apart from that it seems like a rather lean post-Tour period.

Still got the Tour of Britain to come

 

[Catwhoorg]

Yep, as usual you are onto something. Sky have never podiumed in the Vuelta. In fact, even, if you go back to the last Giro you won't find a Sky rider in the top 3.

Froome and Wiggo say nuh-uh.


I do think the team is showing signs of fatigue from a very hard season. I expect things to be adjusted a little for next year.

 

[The Hitch]

Froome and Wiggo say nuh-uh.
.

He was being sarcastic

 

[Catwhoorg]

He was being sarcastic

My apologies, It didn't come accross.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Henao lost time on the first stage after the TTT and has been going backwards ever since. Uran also hasn't looked his usual self in the Mountains. Both at the Giro this year and the Giro 2012 he and Henao where there at the sharp end of most of the climbing stages, but they are struggling.

Why? Probably because Henao was the annointed one and they are going to burn themselves up riding and protecting Uran, so they have switched to plan B and are trying to win a stage to salvage the race, and it would have worked if Gilbert hadn't suddenly remembered how to win....for the second year running.

 

[Papa Kel]

Just something I've always been curious about: what percentage of Sky riders dope?
I'm strongly of the opinion that Sky operates in a way where not everyone is on something. I don't, however, have any idea who is or who isn't. But I'd love thoughts on it...

(my opinion)

Certain Dopers:

Uran
Wiggins
Froome
Kennaugh
Henao
Kiryienka
Porte
Siutsou
Stannard
Swift
Thomas
Pate

Possible Dopers: At this current point in time, not their past.

EBH (most would think he is, but considering his lack of results that a guy of his talent should see, i'm not sold)
Cataldo
Knees
Edmondson
Lopez
Eisel
Tiernan-Locke

Non-dopers: Again, at the present time.

Dombrowski (think the jury is still out... not willing to say he is)
Ian Boswell (same as above)
Matthew Hayman
Puccio
Rasch
Rowe
Sutton
Zandio

 

[Grupetto1]

What has Ben swift done to suggest he's doping?

 

[Papa Kel]

What has Ben swift done to suggest he's doping?

I realise it was going out on a limb. But watching him get 3rd in the national TT this year and 3rd in the Tour Down Under in 2011 just made me believe he's doping. I don't think he's any good, and don't think he should have really achieved half of what he has (which i realise isn't large amounts).

 

[JimmyFingers]

Well it is just his opinion. Wonder what criteria exactly is being applied, or whether the names are just being plucked from the ether.

Sky have looked pretty human all season. Last year the TdF was a collective assault, this year it was certainly an individual one, with Sky looking outgunned by Movistar and Saxo. The classics team was a wash out, they just managed to salvage a second place in the Giro, their Vuelta so far has been very poor. If EBH is doping he isn't doing it very well, given the promise he showed early on.

I'm reminded of Kimmage's pre-Tour questions about EBH's lack of form given that he reminded him of Merckx as a youth.

 

[Parker]

(my opinion)

Certain Dopers:

Uran
Wiggins
Froome
Kennaugh
Henao
Kiryienka
Porte
Siutsou
Stannard
Swift
Thomas
Pate

That you have Danny Pate, one of the most rabidly anti-doping guys in the peloton, down as a certain doper shows that your opinion is probably heavily 'doped' itself

 

[del1962]

Don't worry Papa Kel in seperate threads will be going through his lists for all the other world tour teams telling us who is and isnt doping.

After that Pat (oops sorry) Papa will then be able to rid the dopers from cycling.

 

[Papa Kel]

That you have Danny Pate, one of the most rabidly anti-doping guys in the peloton, down as a certain doper shows that your opinion is probably heavily 'doped' itself

You're right, coming out and being publicly against doping is a true sign someone is clean. Pity Lance didn't think to present himself as anti-doping.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

You're right, coming out and being publicly against doping is a true sign someone is clean. Pity Lance didn't think to present himself as anti-doping.

You would say that Armstrong came across as anti-doping (as opposed to just talking about how he had never failed a test, etc...)? Interesting... I would say there have been very few riders with an anti-doping stance as opposed to those who just deny doping.

 

[Papa Kel]

You would say that Armstrong came across as anti-doping (as opposed to just talking about how he had never failed a test, etc...)? Interesting... I would say there have been very few riders with an anti-doping stance as opposed to those who just deny doping.

Hence why I said it's a pity Lance didn't think to present himself as anti-doping.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Hence why I said it's a pity Lance didn't think to present himself as anti-doping.

I thought you were being sarcastic. In which case the bit about being anti doping being a true sign of being clean does not make sense to me...

 

[Papa Kel]

I thought you were being sarcastic.

Understandable. It is the universal language of these forums.

 

[Netserk]

My take (based on guts mostly) would be:

(Much) More likely to be dirty than clean:

Uran
Wiggins
Froome
Kennaugh
Henao
Kiryienka
Porte
Siutsou
Thomas
Cataldo
Knees
Lopez
Eisel
Tiernan-Locke
Zandio

Could be dirty, could be clean (Schrödinger's cat):

Stannard
Swift
Pate
Hayman
Rasch
Sutton

More likely to be clean than dirty:

EBH
Dombrowski
Ian Boswell
Edmondson
Puccio
Rowe

 

[JimmyFingers]

Woah, Kiriyenka must have really screwed up the dose then, considering he didn't make the cut in the first week of the Tour. And clearly the classics team programme is way behind the GT's, and in fact most of the other pro-tour teams.

 

[Netserk]

@ Jimmy

There are other reasons than dope as to why some under perform.

EDIT: And since I doubt you would put anyone in the first category, I'd like to see who you would put in the 2nd and who you would put in the 3rd.

 

[Ferminal]

Zandio is clean.

 

[JimmyFingers]

@ Jimmy

There are other reasons than dope as to why some under perform.

EDIT: And since I doubt you would put anyone in the first category, I'd like to see who you would put in the 2nd and who you would put in the 3rd.

I wouldn't put any rider into the first category, there is no way of knowing with absolute certainty who is doping now.

As I said I think Sky have looked pretty human this season, outclassed in the classics, outgunned in the Giro, outclassed and outgunned in the Vuelta and really only a monumental individual performance won the Tour for them.

So lets start there: Froome is legitimately suspicious, I take on board the more coherent arguments put forward by members here and it is certainly credible, and indeed probably slightly more credible than the counter story of bilharzia.

As for the rest of them who knows. I don't think Wiggins is, for all the rest that is wrong with him. Geraint Thomas I'd almost stake my life on being clean, but only on a gut instinct. Stannard is my favourite rider so I don't look at him as being particularly suspicious, again on gut. Kiriyenka's performances have been consistent with what he has been doing before, and quite frankly I was amazed when I heard he missed the cut, he's looked Sky's strongest dom. As for JTL, is he was doping he certainly isn't now, he's had a woeful season, even failed to make the cut for the Tour of Britain squad.