Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

How is this possible? I thought bilharzia he had got rid of shortly before the Vuelta should've had big influence on the blood values.
And now they are saying it hadn't? Can somebody explain this to me, please? I'm not blonde, but certainly feel like one

As DirtyWorks says, thinking too much is wrong when it comes to pro cycling, sifting through the mire of spin, BS and downright lies leads to one conclusion, doping.

Froome must be a record breaker for the length of time a westerner has had Bilharzia!

 

[the sceptic]

I see sky signed Nieve.

Will he win the 2014 vuelta or just become the new Porte?

 

[D-Queued]

I see sky signed Nieve.

Will he win the 2014 vuelta or just become the new Porte?

He will win the 2015 Tour.

First, he needs to accumulate a few marginal gains.

The kind that are achieved by attacking the team's GC guy and getting yelled at constantly by your DS to back off and smarten up. Gains marginalized.

Dave.

 

[EnacheV]

I see sky signed Nieve.

Will he win the 2014 vuelta or just become the new Porte?

He will win 2014 and 2015 Vuelta , that's why was brought in, to have a spanish guy win the spanish GT.

much tears will flow in 2014. Porte Giro, Froome Tour, Nieve Vuelta.

 

[Benotti69]

I see sky signed Nieve.

Will he win the 2014 vuelta or just become the new Porte?

As long as he trains harder than all the other teams who are lazy but not to hard like Sky as that appears now to be bad (JTL) he'll win everything for 6 months

 

[coinneach]

I am wondering if things are actually starting to unravel a bit at team Sky? Reasons:
# JTL and the passport: Sky are trying to pass this off as Enduras problem, but that just makes their lack of diligence look worse
# Wiggins: Under contract but doing what? OK 2013 was always going to be the year after, but are his plans for 14 any use to the team?
# Froome: doing less races next year ie don't treat me like this again
# Tactics: always debatable, but the fact that one of the Yates brothers have shunned them because of Sky's treatment of "slaves" speaks volumes
# Morale: the Wiggins Froome feud shows no signs of being over. Having that at the centre of the team is bound to create a bad atmosphere. Seeing BossonHagen & Uran do well at the worlds spoke volumes about the negative vibes in British Cycling just now.
# Development: still all focused on the Tour...no classics improvement, nor any sign of learning in that area
# DS: missing the ones last years spring clean got rid of

Ok they can buy their way out of short term difficulty with Neive, but that's not going to keep the sponsors happy in the long run unless British talent is given a chance to come through.
I just wonder if these are all adding up, and the team is looking more towards the end of its life than the beginning?

 

[Netserk]

Teams come and go. I wouldn't mind if Sky ended like High Road, but I think they'll last for quite some years.

 

[sniper]

small article in Frankfurter Allgemeine on the hypocricy of the anti-doping declaration which sky riders have to sign. Athletes in the DDR back in the days had to sign similar declarations, a neat way for those higher up the ladder to avoid accountability.

Hurra, hier wird durchgegriffen! Sky hält seine Idee für eine ziemlich saubere Sache. Als würden Doper im Angesicht der Ehrenerklärung von einer Wahrheitsattacke erfasst - ohne Rücksicht auf eigene Verluste. Das ist schon mal schiefgegangen. Als Trainer des DDR-Staatsdopings zu Ehrenerklärungen in der Bundesrepublik gezwungen wurden, kapierten sie, was die Stunde geschlagen hatte: Das System ging in Deckung und gab die volle Verantwortung an das Individuum weiter.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/sport/kampf-gegen-doping-heuchlerisch-von-sky-11931674.html

 

[coinneach]

Teams come and go. I wouldn't mind if Sky ended like High Road, but I think they'll last for quite some years.

High Road's mistake was putting all their eggs in Cav's basket; by the time he said he was off, there was nothing left.
So I suppose Sky have been smart enough to avoid that pitfall
But I think Brailsford is too smart to hang around a sinking ship, and this one is heading back to the shore, rather than out into the ocean

 

[Parker]

I am wondering if things are actually starting to unravel a bit at team Sky? Reasons:
# JTL and the passport: Sky are trying to pass this off as Enduras problem, but that just makes their lack of diligence look worse
# Wiggins: Under contract but doing what? OK 2013 was always going to be the year after, but are his plans for 14 any use to the team?
# Froome: doing less races next year ie don't treat me like this again
# Tactics: always debatable, but the fact that one of the Yates brothers have shunned them because of Sky's treatment of "slaves" speaks volumes
# Morale: the Wiggins Froome feud shows no signs of being over. Having that at the centre of the team is bound to create a bad atmosphere. Seeing BossonHagen & Uran do well at the worlds spoke volumes about the negative vibes in British Cycling just now.
# Development: still all focused on the Tour...no classics improvement, nor any sign of learning in that area
# DS: missing the ones last years spring clean got rid of

Ok they can buy their way out of short term difficulty with Neive, but that's not going to keep the sponsors happy in the long run unless British talent is given a chance to come through.
I just wonder if these are all adding up, and the team is looking more towards the end of its life than the beginning?

I think you are clutching at some insubstantial straws there.

They are the number one ranked team with the number one ranked rider (and two more in the top 20). They have one of the biggest sponsorship deals which is in place for at least another three years - from a company which spends a billion on marketing every year.

They may have a couple of minor problems, but what team doesn't? If you think Sky are somehow struggling, who on earth do you think is doing well?

 

[Cycle Chic]

I think you are clutching at some insubstantial straws there.

They are the number one ranked team with the number one ranked rider (and two more in the top 20). They have one of the biggest sponsorship deals which is in place for at least another three years - from a company which spends a billion on marketing every year.

They may have a couple of minor problems, but what team doesn't? If you think Sky are somehow struggling, who on earth do you think is doing well?

Coineach missed off the Vuelta 'no show' as well.

I think Sean Yates's departure is the centre of the unravelling. He was the Lance link also...all the usps philosophy has come from Yates imo.

 

[Parker]

Coineach missed off the Vuelta 'no show' as well.

They won a stage and had three seconds. Not great, but also not a disaster in a race that didn't seem high on their list of priorities. What exactly did you expect from them?

I think Sean Yates's departure is the centre of the unravelling. He was the Lance link also...all the usps philosophy has come from Yates imo

There is no unravelling. It exists only in your mind.

 

[Benotti69]

They won a stage and had three seconds. Not great, but also not a disaster in a race that didn't seem high on their list of priorities. What exactly did you expect from them?



There is no unravelling. It exists only in your mind.

JTL's BP irregularities is possibly the beginning of the unravelling. Time will tell.

To defend Sky's success as clean while McQuaid was president of UCI is ludicrous.

 

[Avoriaz]

JTL's BP irregularities is possibly the beginning of the unravelling. Time will tell.

To defend Sky's success as clean while McQuaid was president of UCI is ludicrous.

But, using the above examples, wouldn't JTL's BP irregularities suggest that Sky are clean - JTL's blood has changed in values over the course of the year. Last year he won things; this year he didn't. That wouldn't point towards JTL having started to dope this year under a Sky programme.

 

[JimmyFingers]

But, using the above examples, wouldn't JTL's BP irregularities suggest that Sky are clean - JTL's blood has changed in values over the course of the year. Last year he won things; this year he didn't. That wouldn't point towards JTL having started to dope this year under a Sky programme.

This. JTL getting figured looks to be politically motivated, a bit like Katusha being denied their pro-team license for this year, latterly overturned. If anything JTL anomalous blood values make Sky look clean, although of course you can question their selection process. Given JTL's good results last year, the decision to use him as team leader in the Worlds in 2012 and the potential people saw for JTL to develop into a GT rider there's no reason to think he wouldn't be put onto Sky's special sauce, especially if he was already doping at Endura. The lack of results this year and now this investigation suggests that JTL was riding clean in 2013.

 

[Beech Mtn]

High Road's mistake was putting all their eggs in Cav's basket; by the time he said he was off, there was nothing left.
So I suppose Sky have been smart enough to avoid that pitfall
But I think Brailsford is too smart to hang around a sinking ship, and this one is heading back to the shore, rather than out into the ocean

High Road pretty much never had full sponsorship, were running off money from the T-mobile deal, etc. Sky has shedloads of money. Unless Murdoch junior no longer cares about cycling, or the team gets embroiled in some huge scandal that makes the sponsor pull out, Sky will be around for a long time.

 

[the sceptic]

"It's a good setup [at GreenEdge]," Adam said. "And if I went to Sky then I'd end up working on the front like a slave, and I'm not a big fan of that!"

I just became a fan.

 

[coinneach]

High Road pretty much never had full sponsorship, were running off money from the T-mobile deal, etc. Sky has shedloads of money. Unless Murdoch junior no longer cares about cycling, or the team gets embroiled in some huge scandal that makes the sponsor pull out, Sky will be around for a long time.

Fair point, but News International are now VERY scandal adverse.
Cycling is high risk, albeit high return for investment.
James no longer calls the shots.

As a Brit, I'm more upset at the Yates brothers going off to another team: I totally understand their motivation though.
ON Eurosport Magnus Backstead (who has some role in British Cycling IIRC) said can Sky afford NOT to sign them? Its one of the raisond'etres of the team; developing British Talent.
If it no longer is the best place to do that, questions must be asked.
And Brailsford has to ask them of himself.
When he does, I think he'll realise he quite like not to have all the hassle, if its not going anywhere, or just treading water.
And when he goes, it'll all fall down like a pack of Linda McCartney cards.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I've heard that Sky were only interested in signing Simon anyway, but you'd hope someone their age getting their first contract with a World Tour team would be willing to pay their dues. It will be interesting to see how OGE deploy them.

Good move though: statements like that will get them much more leniency from the internet finger-pointers, as evidenced by your post.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Fair point, but News International are now VERY scandal adverse.
Cycling is high risk, albeit high return for investment.
James no longer calls the shots.

As a Brit, I'm more upset at the Yates brothers going off to another team: I totally understand their motivation though.
ON Eurosport Magnus Backstead (who has some role in British Cycling IIRC) said can Sky afford NOT to sign them? Its one of the raisond'etres of the team; developing British Talent.
If it no longer is the best place to do that, questions must be asked.
And Brailsford has to ask them of himself.
When he does, I think he'll realise he quite like not to have all the hassle, if its not going anywhere, or just treading water.
And when he goes, it'll all fall down like a pack of Linda McCartney cards.

If you're looking to Sky to develop homegrown talent I think you're looking in the wrong place. The Giro and Vuelta teams had one Brit in each, and their top rider isn't homegrown, has never lived in this country and has the Kenyan flag on his bike. Sky are about results and nothing else. Good for the Yates brothers really, although I would have preferred them to go to a European squad rather than the Aussie mob.

 

[The Hitch]

Brailsford wants to hand pick who gets to win the Tour de France. Have the power of deciding for himself which donkey can become the dominant gt force.

If some kids with actual talent show up he might not feel like he played such a big role in the victory. And where is the fun in that.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Not sure Brailsford can take any credit for Froome, he developed entirely outside of BC, unlike the Yates brothers

 

[MatParker117]

Not sure Brailsford can take any credit for Froome, he developed entirely outside of BC, unlike the Yates brothers

Simon yes, Adam actually failed to meet the requirements to get into the academy.

 

[The Hitch]

Not sure Brailsford can take any credit for Froome, he developed entirely outside of BC, unlike the Yates brothers

That depends on one's definition of "develop"

 

[LaFlorecita]

I just became a fan.

Me too!