Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

Gotta drag himself around Japan on the weekend first although that may be off now.

Wonder if he really wanted to do it or his team made him, isn't that exactly what they did to him and Froome in Les Essarts last year?

You'd think with eyes on May, the extra two weeks off now wouldn't hurt.

nah the program Porte is on he can ride his dogma to the moon

 

[Netserk]

Gotta drag himself around Japan on the weekend first although that may be off now.

Wonder if he really wanted to do it or his team made him, isn't that exactly what they did to him and Froome in Les Essarts last year?

You'd think with eyes on May, the extra two weeks off now wouldn't hurt.

Probably to defend the WT team ranking. Though Porte apparently didn't give a ****.

 

[Benotti69]

In case Sky fans are wondering where Sky got their 'Zero Tolerance' catch phrase, the borrowed it from Lance

.... "zero tolerance for anyone convicted of using or facilitating the use of performance-enhancing drugs"........

the quote is from a times article in 2003

'Disappointed Armstrong cuts ties with Ferrari after conviction', The Times

 

[martinvickers]

In case Sky fans are wondering where Sky got their 'Zero Tolerance' catch phrase, the borrowed it from Lance



the quote is from a times article in 2003

'Disappointed Armstrong cuts ties with Ferrari after conviction', The Times

<facepalm />

That's great, B. Seriously...

The phrase was first recorded in 1972; it's been a fixture of public discourse since the early 1990's, specifically drugs policies in civil society.

But of course, Armstrong invented everything, everything he invented is bad, and everything bad is a copy of Armstrong.

Hey, did he invent the bicycle too? Because I've seen several cyclists on those things, and if Armstrong was in on that, you know it's just rotten...

 

[Benotti69]

That's great, B. Seriously...

In the world of cycling and doping, Sky have been compared to USPS, even they themselves (wigans) used the term 'blue train' to describe their team at the front.

This shows another comparison which chips away at Sky's PR BS.

 

[martinvickers]

In the world of cycling and doping, Sky have been compared to USPS, even they themselves (wigans) used the term 'blue train' to describe their team at the front.

This shows another comparison which chips away at Sky's PR BS.

Sorry that it also obviously erodes your fan worship.

Ball not man, Benotti. Rules apply to you too. Especially when you get my allegiances wrong for a cheap snark.

 

[TheGame]

They have so far won 35 races this year. Only 5 of those were after the Tour

OPQS have won 54 races, only 15 after the Tour.
Movistar have won 32 races, only 6 after the Tour.

By contrast, Katusha and BMC the other two top five teams have been very successful post tour. I'm not totally sure what your'e point is?

 

[thehog]

OPQS have won 54 races, only 15 after the Tour.
Movistar have won 32 races, only 6 after the Tour.

By contrast, Katusha and BMC the other two top five teams have been very successful post tour. I'm not totally sure what your'e point is?

How about clean team Garmin?

 

[RownhamHill]

I see those at public relations constructing these roundabout philosophical arguments about how Sky shouldn't release their data because "the clinic" (who on every other occasion they chide as irrelvant) would still doubt them, conveniently ignore the elephant in the room.

Why should Sky release their data? **** the clinic, **** the fanboys, and **** PR. They should release it because it is the right thing to do full stop, regardless of whether it convinces the clinic or not.

Sky have portrayed themselves as nothing less than the Holy Trinity of anti doping. They have from the word go lapped up as much credit as they can for alleged revolutionary anti doping stances that no one else in sport takes.

This "commitment to anti doping" is allegedly what seperates Sky from the big shadow hanging over the sport -Armstrong. Because otherwise, all sky have to say they are clean is never having tested positive. Oh wait Armstrong didnt either so that doesnt mean anything. And they have the myth of scientific improvement which is exactly what Armstrong argued on all those occasions.

So all Sky have to truly seperate them from Armstrong is this "commitment to anti doping". Which is what they use in the press.

And what we see with Sky's refusal to release Froome's info and in particular with their little Grappe stunt where they refused to show Froome's pre GOD values, is an asnwer to the million dollar question.

"Are Sky actually commited to anti doping, or is it just a lie they put in the media, backed up by their connections and money, to convince people they are clean? "

Sky's behaviour shows us that the answer is quite clearly the latter. Claim transparency, but don't actually offer it.


You can crow all you want about how it doesn't matter because the clinic wouldn't believe it anyway. I would still believed they dope with other stuff and not blood doping, if they released the data and the experts said it was kosher. But what truly convinces me Sky are dirty and what truly converted me from an apathetic stance to Froome and Wiggins doping (as I held on here in 2011), is the dirty politics. If you claim to be all this anti doping and then it turns out you are lying, as we found out sky were doing when we saw they had lienders and yates and rogers, then that is more than just a rider injecting himself with steroids.

Interesting post, and I see where you're coming from, but I can't agree with your basic premise.

The 'right thing' to do for a team committed to being anti-doping is to not dope. That's it. Everything else is just tactics and PR as to how you communicate that decision.

In the absence of any compulsion to release data, there's no moral 'right' or 'wrong' about releasing it, just a PR decision either way. And the evidence of the past suggests in practice its not a winning PR strategy (Wiggins '09, Hsjedal '12, Horner a week or so ago).

So, given that releasing the data won't change anything with regards to whether they have doped in the past, or intend to dope again in the future, what's the point?

 

[Benotti69]

Ball not man, Benotti. Rules apply to you too. Especially when you get my allegiances wrong for a cheap snark.

ball not man Marty, Leave moderation to the mods

 

[martinvickers]

ball not man Marty, Leave moderation to the mods

When you break the rules that keep the forum able to function, i'm gonna call you on it. Live with it.

 

[maltiv]

To be honest I don't really care much about whether or not they release their blood data. I don't think we'd get anywhere by that.

What I want to happen is for them to release some tests or training data of Froome pre 2011. They have said that his numbers were amazing and extraordinary...but then why on earth wouldn't they publish that? That'd be the single most effective way of increasing their credibility. By actually proving that Froome had some sort of hidden super-talent, they'd come off as much more believable.

I just don't see why they wouldn't do that if those numbers are what they claim to be.

 

[Netserk]

OPQS have won 54 races, only 15 after the Tour.
Movistar have won 32 races, only 6 after the Tour.

By contrast, Katusha and BMC the other two top five teams have been very successful post tour. I'm not totally sure what your'e point is?

It was an observation. Nothing more, nothing less. The 'eek' smiley was because it actually surprised how badly they have done after the Tour. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[thehog]

To be honest I don't really care much about whether or not they release their blood data. I don't think we'd get anywhere by that.

What I want to happen is for them to release some tests or training data of Froome pre 2011. They have said that his numbers were amazing and extraordinary...but then why on earth wouldn't they publish that? That'd be the single most effective way of increasing their credibility. By actually proving that Froome had some sort of hidden super-talent, they'd come off as much more believable.

I just don't see why they wouldn't do that if those numbers are what they claim to be.

Did they say this? That they were amazing?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Did they say this? That they were amazing?

Good catch. I thought the story was Brailsford fell in love with him getting a 10-something place at some TT.

 

[thehog]

Good catch. I thought the story was Brailsford fell in love with him getting a 10-something place at some TT.

It was JVs BS that there was some mystery Di Vinchi Code styled report hidden in a safe at the UCI. Apparently it unlocked the numbers of the Dawg.

The UCI press release said otherwise.

Brainslessford apparently saw the secret talent of the Dawg when he powered his way to 17th place behind David Miller at the Comenwealth Games ITT. The Dawg was narrowly beaten by the Indian competitor who incidentally has also gone on to Tour success as well

 

[TheGame]

How about clean team Garmin?

17 wins, but only 5 since the Tour.

The point being, Netserk used the fact that Sky have only had 5 wins since the Tour as some sort of sign of doping (This is the sky thread and the clinic), but for most teams, they have very few wins after the tour, mainly due to the lack of races.

So the point is?

 

[GuyIncognito]

It was Julich who said his numbers were extraordinary

BJ didn't specify which numbers so for all we know he could be talking about Froome's apple bobbing stats

 

[bobbins]

Froome was identified at the Melbourne commonwealth games by British Cycling officials - not Dave B. Bobby Julich is his 'coach'.

Froome evidently tested very similar numbers to Wiggins.

If anyone really believes that Froomes performance over the last couple of years was normal then they need to wake up.

 

[oldcrank]

I'd be interested to see the data and numbers an 11 year
old Christopher Froome was generating while he was
selling avocados from a cobbled together second-hand
bike during the time he and his mother were living in
servants quarters in Nairobi, Kenya.

 

[the sceptic]

With insight from a number of protagonists, such as Dave Brailsford, Chris Froome and Bradley Wiggins, the book is an essential read for any hardcore Team Sky fan. Just don't expect any detailed examination of the questions Froome and company faced at the Tour de France.

Ah, now I know what im gonna get martinvickers for christmas.

 

[the sceptic]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-calls-for-tramadol-ban-in-peloton

The smugness here is off the charts

Im glad we can count on team sky to clean up the peloton

 

[sniper]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-calls-for-tramadol-ban-in-peloton

The smugness here is off the charts

Im glad we can count on team sky to clean up the peloton

Perception is reality. Garmin and Sky again loudest frontrunners in the symbolic fight against doping.

 

[MartinGT]

Why arent Sky members of MPCC?

 

[Ferminal]

Because they don't need to outsource their PR.