Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[the sceptic]

How fortunate that Lord Wiggo avoided the temptation of doping all those years. Otherwise we couldnt have him as the saviour of clean cycling now

 

[JimmyFingers]

In the article I read, Brailsford has promised full disclosure at the end of the offer, re-iterating his invitation from earlier in the season.

But as I said in the other thread, the British press will start to ask questions, that one was aboyut Leinders but I'm surprised no-one has picked up on Rogers name being mentioned by Levi yet, given he was part of the TdF winning team

 

[Maxiton]

"Now I understand how US Postal was able to put eight or nine riders in the front on a mountain stage and drop all the others."
-- Cancellara

Great comment by Cancellara!

PS: Do you like him better know?

I love him.

Low on the suspicion index high on credibility.

Cancellara is my fave rider, but for him to feign innocence and surprize ("Now I understand" . . .) doesn't pass the smell test. At all.

 

[cineteq]

"
Cancellara is my fave rider, but for him to feign innocence and surprize ("Now I understand" . . .) doesn't pass the smell test. At all.

Right, but give credit to the guy nonetheless.
"Lance has ensured that the early years of my career were wasted years."

 

[maltiv]

I find it very interesting how some people, who clearly are fans of Katusha (or riders on that team) are spreading this intense hate on Sky for having had an earlier doping doctor on their team. Meanwhile, Katusha has hired Andrei Mikhailov as a team doctor, who is a convicted criminal who spent time in prison for doping.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I find it very interesting how some people, who clearly are fans of Katusha (or riders on that team) are spreading this intense hate on Sky for having had an earlier doping doctor on their team. Meanwhile, Katusha has hired Andrei Mikhailov as a team doctor, who is a convicted criminal who spent time in prison for doping.

Katusha riders thread
purito
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18359

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18265

menchov was mentioned alot here
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=3583&highlight=Denis+Menchov

katusha related
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=11449&highlight=katusha
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=431904&highlight=katusha#post431904
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=16985&highlight=katusha
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14460&highlight=katusha
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=2384&highlight=katusha

 

[coinneach]

The pressure is on.

"Team Sky need to come clean over Geert Leinders"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...at-cycling-can-regain-full-trust-of-fans.html

"Sky deny that the employment of Leinders had anything to do with doping. But in the current climate, no longer will cycling fans be prepared to accept anything less than complete transparency. Full explanations are required. It will be many years before the sport can enjoy the benefit of any doubt."

I'm not too impressed with this article: ok, its good to ask the question & make the point, but re-hashing the story of 500+ tests of Lance shows the journalist hasn't properly read the 200 pages, never mind the 1000

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I find it very interesting how some people, who clearly are fans of Katusha (or riders on that team) are spreading this intense hate on Sky for having had an earlier doping doctor on their team. Meanwhile, Katusha has hired Andrei Mikhailov as a team doctor, who is a convicted criminal who spent time in prison for doping.

A bit like how the Cobo thread never got that big because most people looked at Cobo's performances, thought 'yea, ok' and ran with it, nobody is running a mile to defend Katyusha. They never came into the sport pretending to be a high moral, transparent super-clean team.

This means there aren't people obsessively defending them, so no arguments flare up continuously or cause the threads to swell to 6.000 posts.

They also didn't do it in July, when posting volume is at its highest and combativity among posters typically is too.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

A bit like how the Cobo thread never got that big because most people looked at Cobo's performances, thought 'yea, ok' and ran with it, nobody is running a mile to defend Katyusha. They never came into the sport pretending to be a high moral, transparent super-clean team.

This means there aren't people obsessively defending them, so no arguments flare up continuously or cause the threads to swell to 6.000 posts.

They also didn't do it in July, when posting volume is at its highest and combativity among posters typically is too.

Which is summed up by Menchov really. Someone starts a 'Menchov is doping' thread and it gets two replies going 'oh you only just noticed'. I don't think Menchov's biggest fan would ever claim he is clean. Whereas, Sky, Armstrong, Contador and any discussion of Australian riders tends to draw in hysterical reaction from fans who will argue till the day is done that their team/rider/country are clean.

 

[Benotti69]

Can any Sky fans defend what Wiggins said about not racing with Armstrong?

Can Wiggins go back in time and change the past with his new cadence and IP world beating ability that lay dorment until this year when he found it in the bottom of his wardrobe and realised with it he could win a TdF?

Can anyone here defend Brailsford fake 'shock' and 'surprise' about Armstrong?

Can anyone here defend Brailsford and Wiggins lies to cycling fans?

Can anyone explain why they are lying?

I can.

They run a systematic doping program probably more sophisticated than USPostal for their TdF A team and they are sh!tting bricks someone in the media with half a brain can put 1+1 together to make 2 about Sky, Leinders, Wiggins past TdFs finishing in the bus, Froome coming from nowhere, Rogers riding better than when Ferarri was doping him, Porte having an incredible year etc etc etc.......

 

[thehog]

My feeling is Porte will break. He doesn't like seeing what he's seeing.

He'll leave and step down from the A-Team.

Wiggins is a better liar than Lance. He's a gentleman.

 

[Von Mises]

Which is summed up by Menchov really. Someone starts a 'Menchov is doping' thread and it gets two replies going 'oh you only just noticed'. I don't think Menchov's biggest fan would ever claim he is clean. Whereas, Sky, Armstrong, Contador and any discussion of Australian riders tends to draw in hysterical reaction from fans who will argue till the day is done that their team/rider/country are clean.

1. It is English speaking forum, so it is quite normal, that here are less fans from other countries (from Russia for instance),
2. If you forget sport and look other corruption measurements, corruption indexes and research what has been done about this topic, then countries are different and sometimes these diffrences are huge. Look at this for instance http://www.transparency.org/cpi2010/results

Rule of the thumb: northern Europe is less corrupt than southern, western europe is less corrupt than eastern europe. What USADA is now doing with Armstron will never-ever happen with Vinokourov in Kazkhastan (unless Vino does not make some stupid political move).

(BTW, I do not want to say by this that Sky is clean and I agree with you that sometimes there is hypocrisy and bias.)

 

[taiwan]

Look at this for instance http://www.transparency.org/cpi2010/results

"corruption perceptions index"

 

[zalacain]

Wiggins is a better liar than Lance. He's a gentleman.

Like when answering questions from journos at the TdF. Hardly a gentleman.
Had to laugh when reading the USADA doc today - the dot inside a circle = 1000mg EPO. What is that logo on Wiggo's helmet?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

1. It is English speaking forum, so it is quite normal, that here are less fans from other countries (from Russia for instance),
2. If you forget sport and look other corruption measurements, corruption indexes and research what has been done about this topic, then countries are different and sometimes these diffrences are huge. Look at this for instance http://www.transparency.org/cpi2010/results

Rule of the thumb: northern Europe is less corrupt than southern, western europe is less corrupt than eastern europe. What USADA is now doing with Armstron will never-ever happen with Vinokourov in Kazkhastan (unless Vino does not make some stupid political move).

(BTW, I do not want to say by this that Sky is clean and I agree with you that sometimes there is hypocrisy and bias.)

That doesn't follow when it comes to Contador/valverde.

I don't understand the second point and how it relates to the discussion.

Sweeping generalisations don't really work - Italy has rampant corruption and yet they have been some of the most active in dealing with dopers. The UK in northern europe one of the most tardy, Spain in southern europe one of the most tardy. The Dutch seem in no hurry to crack down on doping.

More to the point DNA in say Romania has recently managed to jail a former Romanian prime minister and presidential candidate for corruption, and the US jailed Tom Delay, so it can happen anywhere. There are plenty of politicians in supposed clean countries who ought to be investigated/jailed but who won't be.

My point was that some riders attract more rabid fans than their reaction to that rider/team/country is akin to membership of a cult. It don't think its defined by language although access means it is inevitable that english speaking riders/teams/countries will get more rabid defenders (what about ryder H in all of this shouldn't he have a rabid canadian fanbase too?)

 

[orbeas]

Sky

Whenever Brailsford speaks about doping he always says something like -

" the team is run under WADA rules relating to doping "

does this mean that they do not use PED's ????

or they use PED's which are not on WADA list ???

if they do ?? is this ' marginal gains '

 

[sartoris]

can any sky fans defend what wiggins said about not racing with armstrong?

Can wiggins go back in time and change the past with his new cadence and ip world beating ability that lay dorment until this year when he found it in the bottom of his wardrobe and realised with it he could win a tdf?

Can anyone here defend brailsford fake 'shock' and 'surprise' about armstrong?

Can anyone here defend brailsford and wiggins lies to cycling fans?

Can anyone explain why they are lying?

I can.

They run a systematic doping program probably more sophisticated than uspostal for their tdf a team and they are sh!tting bricks someone in the media with half a brain can put 1+1 together to make 2 about sky, leinders, wiggins past tdfs finishing in the bus, froome coming from nowhere, rogers riding better than when ferarri was doping him, porte having an incredible year etc etc etc.......

No proof YET but ... subscribe !!!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Whenever Brailsford speaks about doping he always says something like -

" the team is run under WADA rules relating to doping "

does this mean that they do not use PED's ????

or they use PED's which are not on WADA list ???

if they do ?? is this ' marginal gains '

Exactly. JV, the other "clean team" manager would be damn proud. 2 peas in a pod.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Like when answering questions from journos at the TdF. Hardly a gentleman.
Had to laugh when reading the USADA doc today - the dot inside a circle = 1000mg EPO. What is that logo on Wiggo's helmet?

 

[thirteen]

Like when answering questions from journos at the TdF. Hardly a gentleman.
Had to laugh when reading the USADA doc today - the dot inside a circle = 1000mg EPO. What is that logo on Wiggo's helmet?

Quadrophenia?

 

[Dead Star]

Quadrophenia?

He's definitely a bell boy.

 

[MatParker117]

Like when answering questions from journos at the TdF. Hardly a gentleman.
Had to laugh when reading the USADA doc today - the dot inside a circle = 1000mg EPO. What is that logo on Wiggo's helmet?

RAF Randel

 

[MatParker117]

Cav :

http://www1.skysports.com/cycling/n...cycling-following-Lance-Armstrong-revelations

"There's nothing happening now, it's stuff dragged from the past. Everyone knew what cycling was like in the past and cycling getting tarnished again because of the past.

"The question I always get asked is, 'how can cycling move forward?'

"Well it is moving forward but (some) people won't let it because there are cynics and people with closed minds and there is going to be stuff which comes up from the past.

"It's not fair to tarnish the riders who are doing it now with a brush they don't deserve to be tarnished with."

"The amount of people who just say, 'cyclists' and then pretend to inject something in their arm - it's a stupid closed-minded view on it.

"Cheating happens everywhere - in every sport, in every country and in every aspect of life. (It happens) in entertainment, there are going to be journalists who cheat to get a better story.

"If you put the time, effort and money into catching the cheats then you will do it. Cycling does that and cycling brings up stuff from the past to do it.

"It's not fair to say it's a dirty sport it's just that they (the anti-doping authorities) don't care about the image of the franchise (in catching the cheats).

"It shows that they wanted things to change and they still want to things to be better in the future."
.

 

[Gubby Allen]

Can any Sky fans defend what Wiggins said about not racing with Armstrong?..

If that was the SSN interview, the discussion had been on Armstrong's time at US Postal.

 

[Frosty]

Regarding what Cav said, werent all of them still participants in sport? Makes it kind of in the present even if they cant perform their full range of tricks now.