Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Freddythefrog]

It's painful - well obviously too painful

“Its painful, but it’s the cost of people being able to believe that we can do it clean,” Brailsford said after the Julich sacking, when the coach added it was “highly likely” that more departures would follow.


OK so the pain of exposing Yates was too much, so they needed to do a "waving you a fond farewell with a tear in my eye" press release.

So being tough and taking the pain lasted all of 3 days or all the way from sacking Johnny Foreigner to first Brit "retiring".

 

[Benotti69]

Why are all the fans surprised about this?

Brailsford brought this on himself.

As Team Sky's first season in professional cycling drew to a close, the team principal Dave Brailsford today admitted that this year's Tour de France debut had been a "humbling" experience and said changes will be made to the way the team prepare for the 2011 event – as well as changes to rider roster and back-up staff, which are being kept secret.

Writing was on the wall.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/sep/17/sky-dave-brailsford?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

 

[Mellow Velo]

Why are all the fans surprised about this?

Brailsford brought this on himself.

As Team Sky's first season in professional cycling drew to a close, the team principal Dave Brailsford today admitted that this year's Tour de France debut had been a "humbling" experience and said changes will be made to the way the team prepare for the 2011 event – as well as changes to rider roster and back-up staff, which are being kept secret.


Writing was on the wall.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/sep/17/sky-dave-brailsford?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

Damn.
Why didn't he say we are going to make the same mistakes, next year and will tell everybody how we mean to cock up, beforehand.

Seriously?

I don't think it's just fans who would struggle not to be surprised, if stuff like this is being offered up as proof.

 

[Benotti69]

Damn.
Why didn't he say we are going to make the same mistakes, next year and will tell everybody how we mean to cock up, beforehand.

Seriously?

I don't think it's just fans who would struggle not to be surprised, if stuff like this is being offered up as proof.

Why didn't he e transparent about not being able to find the experience from the amateur ranks so they were going to have to delve into the pro cycling to find people whose past may not be what Sky would like but these people will be working under Sky's policy of transparency, clean riding and no doping. See easy.

But I dont believe they are clean. Hence all the pr feck ups, the sackings and scurrying to get some credibilty to their 2012 season.

 

[howsteepisit]

I think that if Sky were indeed dirty, the rash of "firings" would greatly increase the chance of the facts coming out. If there were a doping conspiracy, firing several people would doubtlessly create at least on person who's ticked off enough to spill the beans. Or, Perhaps thats part of the financial incentives for the fireees, that they have to sign a secrecy agreement. Living in the US I know no court would enforce an agreement that involves illegal acts, not sure in the UK though.

 

[goggalor]

As far as I understand Skys policy.

1) They started with the policy of not hiring people with doping convictions.
2) No non UK cycling docs.

They have stuck to number 1 but not number 2.

I can't see that they have violated rule 1 up to this point.
note: Yates had no prior doping conviction.

They have now tightened number 1. It is now more like:
1.1) Don't have any doping in your past even though you got away with it at the time.


On rule number 2 I have no idea what their current policy is.

It would be interesting to know the reasoning for breaking with their policy back in 2010/2011. It might be as their press releases at the time states, but I would like to know more about their thinking at that time. The process and reasoning behind hiring Leinders is in my mind still to be sufficiently clarified.

This whole mess has revealed how pointless that "zero tolerance" policy really was. Apparently they didn't even bother to ask their hirees if they'd been naughty!

 

[goggalor]

As far as I understand Skys policy.

1) They started with the policy of not hiring people with doping convictions.
2) No non UK cycling docs.

They have stuck to number 1 but not number 2.

I can't see that they have violated rule 1 up to this point.
note: Yates had no prior doping conviction.

They have now tightened number 1. It is now more like:
1.1) Don't have any doping in your past even though you got away with it at the time.


On rule number 2 I have no idea what their current policy is.

It would be interesting to know the reasoning for breaking with their policy back in 2010/2011. It might be as their press releases at the time states, but I would like to know more about their thinking at that time. The process and reasoning behind hiring Leinders is in my mind still to be sufficiently clarified.

This whole mess has revealed what sham that "zero tolerance" policy really was. Apparently they didn't even bother asking their hirees if they'd been naughty.

 

[Franklin]

So Sky did not finish 2012 without a doping scandal

Self induced, but clearly the rot is indeed deep. Not surprising as the names could be spelled out without the fancy scheme.

The most amazing is how Dave, mastermind manager was absolutely in the dark about it all. Poor Dave, he's just to trustworthy

Seems the lazy clinic wakners were 100% right again.

Yeah, what's happening now drops my believe in a clean miracle by quite a few points.

 

[Dead Star]

I reckon Brailsford will soon be telling us that the team has been under the spell of hypnotoad, which is why they are now shocked and completely amazed:

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I reckon Brailsford will soon be telling us that the team has been under the spell of hypnotoad, which is why they are now shocked and completely amazed:

Dave is looking at the horizon, expressing an optimistic attitude versus the future. The expression of his face is smiling, happy, positive and at the same time astonished.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Smug c**** and Wan****

 

[veganrob]

I think that if Sky were indeed dirty, the rash of "firings" would greatly increase the chance of the facts coming out. If there were a doping conspiracy, firing several people would doubtlessly create at least on person who's ticked off enough to spill the beans. Or, Perhaps thats part of the financial incentives for the fireees, that they have to sign a secrecy agreement. Living in the US I know no court would enforce an agreement that involves illegal acts, not sure in the UK though.

Pro cycling is still an "old boy omerta" club. People are just recycled through. One team to the next and so on and so on. SOmeone like Sean Yates will not rat out Sky. They know that. He still needs a job, and will get one. The wholesale change in cycling is not going to happen yet. This is just a temblar now. May lead to earthquake, hope so.
Sky is guilty of doping. Brailsford will f-up. He already can't keep his stories straight.

 

[cineteq]

Is Wiggins, the next one, leaving for personal reasons?
"I didn’t have fun on the Tour"

 

[thehog]

Is Wiggins, the next one, leaving for personal reasons?
"I didn’t have fun on the Tour""

Yates gone the double yellow in that shot! Thats the special "omerta" signal for the clan

 

[ebandit]

scandalous

this is a scandal?.................oh what dull lives you must live

 

[thehog]

I think it was a self-induced doping scandal.

Why didn't he just say/do nothing?

Who'd give a sh!t?

Or is something coming up?

 

[Benotti69]

I think it was a self-induced doping scandal.

Why didn't he just say/do nothing?

Who'd give a sh!t?

Or is something coming up?

Did UCI bury something for Sky?

 

[Freddythefrog]

Yates gone the double yellow in that shot! Thats the special "omerta" signal for the clan

Hilarious.

I have had more than enough people who don't ride bikes, show me their SINGLE yellow bracelets when they find out I am a keen cyclist. Associate membership ?

 

[Der Effe]

I've always loved the yellow bracelets. Gives you a great insight of the people you have to avoid at all costs.

 

[Dead Star]

I've always loved the yellow bracelets. Gives you a great insight of the people you have to avoid at all costs.

I do that all the time at work .

 

[ToreBear]

Why didn't he e transparent about not being able to find the experience from the amateur ranks so they were going to have to delve into the pro cycling to find people whose past may not be what Sky would like but these people will be working under Sky's policy of transparency, clean riding and no doping. See easy.

But I dont believe they are clean. Hence all the pr feck ups, the sackings and scurrying to get some credibilty to their 2012 season.

But you have changed in that you are willing to hire people who might have been tainted by doping in the past?

I think it's very dependent on the individual and his history. You have your anti-doping policy and belief but you need to weigh it up and, actually, if the need of the team in performance was such and there was an individual that was generally considered in the 'positive' group, to excuse the pun, then he couldn't be ruled out


Is Neil in that positive group?

I think we've decided to stay as we are.


Was that because Neil was in that group?

I think it was overplayed to be honest.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/bike-blog/2011/feb/15/dave-brailsford-full-transcript

There is some info here about their policy.

 

[Velo_vicar]

[/QUOTE] We all want clean teams. But PR F**k ups are not made by clean teams. And PR spinning is not required by clean teams either.


Why are they guilty of "of an almighty **** up PR wise" ?

Because they are hiding something. PR is only for those who seek to hide or twist the truth!

[/QUOTE]

I appreciate the response but is the above really true? Every team has PR you can't promote your team without it clean or not. And it is I am sure possible to muck it up even when 'clean'. Which are the clean teams in your mind at the moment?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

We all want clean teams. But PR F**k ups are not made by clean teams. And PR spinning is not required by clean teams either.


Why are they guilty of "of an almighty **** up PR wise" ?

Because they are hiding something. PR is only for those who seek to hide or twist the truth!

I appreciate the response but is the above really true? Every team has PR you can't promote your team without it clean or not. And it is I am sure possible to muck it up even when 'clean'. Which are the clean teams in your mind at the moment?

It's a PR **** up because as even a fanboy like Matt Slater on the BBC has pointed out - if you go around being holier than thou and rubbing everyone's face in how clean you are, only to then lose a large chunk of your senior management because of their doping links.

Anyone with a bit of savvy would have said - either - stick to the stated policy of not hiring people implicated in doping (anyone with google or a little bit of knowledge of UK road cycling would know that Yates was toxic), or if you are going to hire people with skeletons in their closet then tone down the rhetoric about being clean.

It's a bit like the Tories and the 'Back to Basics' scandals - most people knew for years about Tory MPs and their affairs but it only became an issue when politicians started lecturing others about how to manage their private lives while doing the complete opposite themselves.

 

[nevada]

Pro cycling is still an "old boy omerta" club. People are just recycled through. One team to the next and so on and so on. SOmeone like Sean Yates will not rat out Sky. They know that. He still needs a job, and will get one. The wholesale change in cycling is not going to happen yet. This is just a temblar now. May lead to earthquake, hope so.
Sky is guilty of doping. Brailsford will f-up. He already can't keep his stories straight.

So sack people and expect them to keep their mouths shut about what went on !? Brave call by brailsford .

If all teams adopted sky's policy we would be in a much better place. I'm sure these decisions weren't easy but all the other teams need to look hard at themselves if they're serious about changing the sport - and it needs to start at the top with the mcquaid and verbruggen.

 

[Franklin]

As far as I understand Skys policy.

1) They started with the policy of not hiring people with doping convictions.

FYI, they broke that one at least in spirit when they hired Lenders. He didn't get a WADA/UCI/KNWB conviction, but the judge implicated him in Whereabouts fraud (and subsequently ruled in favor of MR in the case against Rasmussen).