Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[ToreBear]

I don't think Brad has ever claimed to be from Yorkshire

Hmm, perhaps I have him confused with David Cameron.

 

[Grandillusion]

Pick up any copy of any of the daily papers and there will be class discussion in there. Whether it is the Mail decrying working class benefit seekers, the Torygraph complaining about the squeezed middle class. Cameron getting upset everytime someone reprints the Bullingdon club photo. Accusations of middle class entitlement, of working class and upper class entitlement (which ever group you happen to dislike most).

Plenty of it in popular culture with celebrities such as Lily Allen pretending to be working class, Mockney as a term of abuse is class laden, Essex girl jokes & the variations on them are class jokes. My Fat Gypsy Wedding or Geordie Shore are class freakshows. Large chunks of terminology are class based 'Chelsea tractor' a 'Croydon facelift', a 'yummy mummy', 'chav', 'pikey' 'gadgey'

Class is very much an issue and almost all social debates are framed in class terms, although everyone denies that class is an issue which is the ironic thing about it all.

Everything you say above is true. However, to get back to the Wiggins class-roots issue - I don't think "mod" has ever escaped it's original working-class base. I'm no popular culture expert, but that's my perception having lived in Britain my whole life.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Everything you say above is true. However, to get back to the Wiggins class-roots issue - I don't think "mod" has ever escaped it's original working-class base. I'm no popular culture expert, but that's my perception having lived in Britain my whole life.

There is some argument that it abandoned its working class roots when it went mainstream.

Very different to say the Teds. I've never met a middle class Ted, (that said I've never met a Ted under 60) whereas, I've met plenty of modern mods who were middle class playing working class. A good example is the Britpop movement where you had a whole load of middle class musicians de-emphasizing their middle classness (ie private education etc) and claiming to be working class and really into being a mod.

 

[Snafu352]

Comeplety agree. Add to this there's just been the London riots with disaffected youths in regards to class.

Twaddle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17586334

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Twaddle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17586334

Or alternatively

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/tetsuhiko-endo/class-and-the-london-riot_b_932778.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8630533/Riots-the-underclass-lashes-out.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/london-riots-rupture-the-ruling-class/article627322/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2011/08/15/u-k-riots-global-class-war/

One example of one rioter does not disprove Hog's assertion.

 

[del1962]

Pick up any copy of any of the daily papers and there will be class discussion in there. Whether it is the Mail decrying working class benefit seekers, the Torygraph complaining about the squeezed middle class. Cameron getting upset everytime someone reprints the Bullingdon club photo. Accusations of middle class entitlement, of working class and upper class entitlement (which ever group you happen to dislike most).

Plenty of it in popular culture with celebrities such as Lily Allen pretending to be working class, Mockney as a term of abuse is class laden, Essex girl jokes & the variations on them are class jokes. My Fat Gypsy Wedding or Geordie Shore are class freakshows. Large chunks of terminology are class based 'Chelsea tractor' a 'Croydon facelift', a 'yummy mummy', 'chav', 'pikey' 'gadgey'

Class is very much an issue and almost all social debates are framed in class terms, although everyone denies that class is an issue which is the ironic thing about it all.

I see you failed to answer my question, I will ask it again do you live in Britain, have you ever lived in Britain?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I see you failed to answer my question, I will ask it again do you live in Britain, have you ever lived in Britain?

And I see that you are avoiding the answer to your question and the discussion about class in contemporary UK society.

It always amuses me when people invoke the 'I come from here so I know more than you' just like the old 'I ride you don't' arguments.

However, oddly enough I do live in the UK, which kind of ****s up your superiority complex about you being British and knowing oh so much more about Britain than someone you assumed wasn't British.

Where is that sad trombone?

 

[Grandillusion]

There is some argument that it abandoned its working class roots when it went mainstream.

Very different to say the Teds. I've never met a middle class Ted, (that said I've never met a Ted under 60) whereas, I've met plenty of modern mods who were middle class playing working class. A good example is the Britpop movement where you had a whole load of middle class musicians de-emphasizing their middle classness (ie private education etc) and claiming to be working class and really into being a mod.

It is quite a convoluted cultural history I'll agree, but personally I've not come across any middle-class hardcore mods (i.e. people who really take the movements tropes seriously as a way of living). It just feels a very working-class movement to me, always has. Could be wrong. Maybe he's a phony doping git. But I don't think so.

 

[ebandit]

eh?

so youth culture / class awareness is oooh so very interesting...........

..............but in the clinic?

 

[Snafu352]

Or alternatively

People either succeed or they don't, they take opportunities or they don't, to pretend that "class" is the only or major element that matters is to deny and run from dealing with the issues.
Much as focusing a lot of ones bile and un-substantiated insinuations on one cycling team or individuals who seem to be trying to do the right thing does not help resolve cyclings issues.
Sure there are questions to be asked and hopefully answered but to make assertations as many do here with absolutely no shread of real evidence is as pathetic as hiding behind "class" as the reason for the 2011 riots.

 

[del1962]

And I see that you are avoiding the answer to your question and the discussion about class in contemporary UK society.

It always amuses me when people invoke the 'I come from here so I know more than you' just like the old 'I ride you don't' arguments.

However, oddly enough I do live in the UK, which kind of ****s up your superiority complex about you being British and knowing oh so much more about Britain than someone you assumed wasn't British.

Where is that sad trombone?

Finally you answere my question , well done.

I wasn't assuming you weren't British other than you seemed to be putting more emphasis on class in the UK than I see from my experiences.

Of course you get privately educated wanting to hide it, but all evidence suggests that Brad did not go to a private school, even is first name some in the upper middle class would call chavish, but I doubt with his mod image Brad could be called a chav.

None of this relates to whether he has / has not be involved in doping, my feeling is he has not, but I have no proof of this and don't really want to consider flogging a dead horse.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Working class wiggins

In press conference following the eighth leg to Porrentruy, just over the border from France in Switzerland, he was asked about the doping cynics.

He summed it up in one word, "C***s.".......Honestly, they're just f**king w**kers,...The translator readied to deliver the message in French, but before she could, Wiggins picked up the microphone and sent the final message to the cynics: "C**ts!"

Wiggins shows his true class in this outburst - that sort of vitriole is working class. No middle class guy would ever come out with that.

Cycling is a working class sport.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Finally you answere my question , well done.

I wasn't assuming you weren't British other than you seemed to be putting more emphasis on class in the UK than I see from my experiences.

Of course you get privately educated wanting to hide it, but all evidence suggests that Brad did not go to a private school, even is first name some in the upper middle class would call chavish, but I doubt with his mod image Brad could be called a chav.

None of this relates to whether he has / has not be involved in doping, my feeling is he has not, but I have no proof of this and don't really want to consider flogging a dead horse.

You were assuming I wasn't British. You assumed that I could only be claiming this because I wasn't British and that I was anti-British. Just like DW has been accused of being anti-British. And just like Armstrong accused his critics of being anti-American and Contador's critics accuse them of being anti-Spanish.

What I will say is that compared to say the 1960s the boundaries between classes are more blurred. However, since 1979 and the de-industrialisation of the UK, the clear delineation of class by occupation has grown harder to observe, because traditional working class industries and occupations have been swept off the map. Add into that that inequality has increased continually in the UK since 1979, and the emergence of an underclass, and you have a class riven society, even though it dare not admit it.

Another good example of class in UK society is obviously the Mitchell/Plebs outburst, George Osborne not wanting to sit in second class etc etc

 

[thehog]

Twaddle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17586334

That actually proves the point!

Besides when you live it all your life you know it.

Go to school in England and you know class and where you come from all your life. You're reminded on a daily basis.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Wiggins shows his true class in this outburst - that sort of vitriole is working class. No middle class guy would ever come out with that.

Cycling is a working class sport.

That's how I read it to. 'No class' is perhaps a better description.

 

[D-Queued]

More criticism of Sky's 'hide the dopers' policy:

"Tygart reiterated that he thinks a "truth and reconciliation" and a willingness to objectively examine cycling's past is the only way for the sport to move on, and does not agree with the Sky team's "zero tolerance" anti-doping policy.

"If you doped, that's basically a lie. So you're going to have no problem continuing to lie. If you're asked if you doped in the past and you know there will be consequences if you finally tell the truth, are you going to tell the truth? No, you're just going to continue to lie.

"That further sustains cheaters within the sport who are living a lie, who have to continue to live the lie, so there's a lot less likelihood they're ever going to change their ways, seek forgiveness and be redeemed. Which is why we think it's really important to have a meaningful truth and reconciliation.""

Dave.

 

[oldcrank]

He's not from Kilburn and never lived there. Period.

He certainly did. His grandparents lived in Kilburn and young
Brad and his mother lived with them when they first came
back from Belgium.

 

[oldcrank]

Go to school in England and you know class and where you come from all your life. You're reminded on a daily basis.

Isn't St. Augustine's junior school, which young Brad attended
in Kilburn? According to your own statement then, he would be
reminded daily he was from Kilburn for the rest of his life.

 

[thehog]

He certainly did. His grandparents lived in Kilburn and young
Brad and his mother lived with them when they first came
back from Belgium.

You're trying to hard. You're doing internet searches. It doesn't matter where his grandparents lived.

Put simply he grew up in Maida Vale which is not Kilburn. He has always stated he is from Maida Vale. Its only recently he is started saying he was from Kilburn.

Since you love him so much and want him to be a working class hero find me an interview from say 2-3 years ago where he says he's from Kilbrun.

Go on! I dare ya!

Wiggins is a toff.

 

[thehog]

Isn't St. Augustine's junior school, which young Brad attended
in Kilburn? According to your own statement then, he would be
reminded daily he was from Kilburn for the rest of his life.

Class is not simply what school you go to. Its many things. Its about entitlement.

Have you ever lived in England? This is not New Jersey we're talking about!

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Class is not simply what school you go to. Its many things. Its about entitlement.

Have you ever lived in England? This is not New Jersey we're talking about!

whats wrong with New Jersey? Springsteen is from New Jersey and your mate Bono love him ..so you cannot slag off New Jersey.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

whats wrong with New Jersey? Springsteen is from New Jersey and your mate Bono love him ..so you cannot slag off New Jersey.

So are Tony Soprano and that Oompa Loompa Snooki.

 

[andy1234]

whats wrong with New Jersey? Springsteen is from New Jersey and your mate Bono love him ..so you cannot slag off New Jersey.

Bon Jovi will kick The Hogs a$$ when he reads this.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Bon Jovi will kick The Hogs a$$ when he reads this.

Dude, Bon Jovi suck.

 

[andy1234]

Dude, Bon Jovi suck.

No ***?
10char.