Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[thehog]

We need full and open disclosure from Wiggins on the matter. He is the Tour de France champion and I'd like to hear him make some form of statement in regards to Leinders.

The silence is deafening.

 

[MartinGT]

but while delivering the news.........you mock jimmy?

hoggie if only you acted as you request others to act.........this thread is
full of inconsistancies in your actions

news about leinders is pre team sky.............leinders has now left team sky

we need to know exactly how he looked after team sky riders

One of teh very few questions we shall never know, but we need to know.

BUT

I read this;

news about leinders is pre team sky.............leinders has now left team sky

And I read it like:

"It was pre Team Sky, whilst at Sky he wasnt a doper and a clean lad, if he is found guilty of doping at another team its fine, he never supplied or administered doping supplies at Sky"

 

[the sceptic]

So when is Brailsford gonna consider leaving along with the others? Wasnt he supposed to only hire doctors and staff with no doping past? Seems like hes pretty incompetent at that.

 

[ebandit]

happy or sad

And I read it like:

"It was pre Team Sky, whilst at Sky he wasnt a doper and a clean lad, if he is found guilty of doping at another team its fine, he never supplied or administered doping supplies at Sky"

it would be better for team sky......................however cycling fans deserve to know the truth................good or bad

 

[peterst6906]

Although referring to Katusha when it was said, I think the secret pro expressed it the best and showed that in the peleton, the attitude is similar to the belief in the clinic:

In cycling, where there's smoke, there's fire.

Given all that has been said and shown about both Lenders and Sky, there is a strong smell about this issue that I hope we do see resolved one day. I don't have any confidence that it will be in the short term though.

 

[MartinGT]

it would be better for team sky......................however cycling fans deserve to know the truth................good or bad

ebandit, you are spot on.

BUT

I dont think we ever will, the recent departure of Rogers, he left more or less undetected. The British media hardly picked up on it so I doubt they will pick up on this news.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

We need full and open disclosure from Wiggins on the matter. He is the Tour de France champion and I'd like to hear him make some form of statement in regards to Leinders.

The silence is deafening.

You want a guy who had nothing to do with the hiring of Leinders to make a statement about an unconfirmed report about a guy who's just been fired from this guy's team for the reason in the report? Yeah, deafening.

And why haven't you answered the previous question on Leinders and Ferrari? The silence is deafening.

 

[Benotti69]

Although referring to Katusha when it was said, I think the secret pro expressed it the best and showed that in the peleton, the attitude is similar to the belief in the clinic:

Given all that has been said and shown about both Lenders and Sky, there is a strong smell about this issue that I hope we do see resolved one day. I don't have any confidence that it will be in the short term though.

Leinder's is the reason Sky won so much this year. Sky doped their GT team of that I have no doubt.

 

[MartinGT]

You want a guy who had nothing to do with the hiring of Leinders to make a statement about an unconfirmed report about a guy who's just been fired from this guy's team for the reason in the report? Yeah, deafening.

And why haven't you answered the previous question on Leinders and Ferrari? The silence is deafening.

Wiggins wouldnt allow Kimmage with them. Wiggins is road captain of the team, his statement would mean something.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Wiggins wouldnt allow Kimmage with them. Wiggins is road captain of the team, his statement would mean something.

Given the conditions I just stated in my post, what on earth do you expect him to say?

He isn't road captain, by the way.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Wiggins wouldnt allow Kimmage with them. Wiggins is road captain of the team, his statement would mean something.

That was 2010 right? And Kimmage was allowed access, just not for the first 8 days of the tour, and Kimmage refused those conditions. I don't believe that has any bearing.

 

[Benotti69]

You want a guy who had nothing to do with the hiring of Leinders to make a statement about an unconfirmed report about a guy who's just been fired from this guy's team for the reason in the report? Yeah, deafening.

And why haven't you answered the previous question on Leinders and Ferrari? The silence is deafening.

So you think the winner of the 2012 TdF should keep silent about his relationship with his team Doctor who is a doping doctor?

Strange, if Wiggins was clean, which I doubt he was, then why would he not make a comment saying it was a mistake to hire him but he was above board as a team doctor for Sky. But we all guess different, that is why he no longers works for them.

 

[The Hitch]

should remain open so the over 10,000 readers
of this website that admire Sky can read with amusement
the rabid rantings of the vocal few that don't.

EDIT: over 13,800 readers

Who said this?

now the suspicion is out there that you can't win the Tour de France unless you're doing something. That's unfortunate if he is clean but at the same time you can't blame people for the doubt that's there

btw, dismissig Libertines posts as rabid rantings is a crime against the English language.

 

[thehog]

You want a guy who had nothing to do with the hiring of Leinders to make a statement about an unconfirmed report about a guy who's just been fired from this guy's team for the reason in the report? Yeah, deafening.

And why haven't you answered the previous question on Leinders and Ferrari? The silence is deafening.

This is not about me.

Its about Sky hiring the services of a nerfrious doping Doctor. Leinders would have been know in the peloton as a "go to man" for doping products. There are many Rabobank riders and team staff who would have been aware of his actions. Why Sky hired him is a BIG QUESTION.

Why?

It needs to answered.

Wiggins is the patron of the peloton - he needs to respond.

In my mind his victory has been dimished by this revelation.

 

[Benotti69]

That was 2010 right? And Kimmage was allowed access, just not for the first 8 days of the tour, and Kimmage refused those conditions. I don't believe that has any bearing.

Kimmage was told his access would be very limitedunder orders from Wiggins. Kimmage refused of course he did, not wanting to waste his time as he was only going to do it if he had full access. What was Wiggins hiding?

 

[the sceptic]

Wiggins is the face of clean cycling is he not? Always so angry at the dopers. He should have something to say about this.

 

[Froome19]

Whatever Wiggins says will be under strict PR limitations so it would not mean much anyways.

There are obviously reasons as to why Sky do not want Wiggins to comment on the matter. Maybe they want to keep it as quite as possible? I would not blame them considering that Leinders was a blemish on their reputation..

 

[King Of The Wolds]

So you think the winner of the 2012 TdF should keep silent about his relationship with his team Doctor who is a doping doctor?

Again, what do you expect him to say?

"I'm having Christmas with my family now and, unlike common perception, I do have a private life and am not actually public property, so I'm not going to be making a statement now, but if I was, I couldn't make one on the basis of an unconfirmed report, and even if I could, my team's already sacked the guy for having a dodgy past, so there's nothing else I can add, and if there was, I'm not actually a spokesperson for the team, we actually have other people who are paid to do that." ??

Sky have already told you what Brad and all other Sky riders' relationship was with Leinders - he was a doctor who provided elite cycling specific, genuine medical practice. Just because you don't believe this doesn't mean to say that a statement hasn't already been made.

 

[Froome19]

Kimmage was told his access would be very limitedunder orders from Wiggins. Kimmage refused of course he did, not wanting to waste his time as he was only going to do it if he had full access. What was Wiggins hiding?

Stupid question and pointless as well. Wiggins is known as being pretty touchy and it would not be all surprising if he did not want the media hounding from inside throughout. His aversion for the media has been emphasised many times and he is rather eccentric when it comes to such things. You dont want a journalist messing around when you are starting off racing the biggest race in your career.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

This is not about me.

Its about Sky hiring the services of a nerfrious doping Doctor. Leinders would have been know in the peloton as a "go to man" for doping products. There are many Rabobank riders and team staff who would have been aware of his actions. Why Sky hired him is a BIG QUESTION.

Why?

It needs to answered.

Wiggins is the patron of the peloton - he needs to respond.

In my mind his victory has been dimished by this revelation.

I don't know how much you know about organisational structures at Sky, but I can tell you that riders don't hire doctors, team management do. Why would a guy who had nothing to do with a particular act have to answer why this act was carried out?

 

[JimmyFingers]

"It was pre Team Sky, whilst at Sky he wasnt a doper and a clean lad, if he is found guilty of doping at another team its fine, he never supplied or administered doping supplies at Sky"

My take on Leinders was always he was a doctor at Rabobank while they were doping, he wasn't officially implicated and he has no entry on Dopeology. So while there was guilt by implication of doping there was nothing concrete. Ergo in a horrible way he did fit in Sky's ZTP.

The same as Yates, Rogers, De Jongh, Julich and Rogers did since none had been officially censured for drug use. Of course in pro-cycling that means little, but it meant Sky could maintain the impression of ZTP while perhaps underneath it was closer to a Garmin-like policy, only slightly stricter. Hence why he couldn't employ Millar, although I'm sure Brailsford would have liked to.

The USADA report ripped away that facade and he was forced to re-implement a more draconian ZTP, which has seen them get rid of pretty much everyone that the Clinic have talked about, short of Sutton. Libertine in fact cited Rogers departure an a litmus test of Sky's seriousness in this.

Of course we have Tygart most recently, although he's not alone, being critical of Sky's approach and favouring the more inclusive Garmin one, which was probably the model Sky were employing pre-USADA subversively, to keep the sponsors, media and public happy (although of course there are plenty who dismiss Garmin's approach as pure PR)>

That said, I am in complete agreement that Leinders involvement is dubious at best. Leipheimer's testimony, if true, isn't so much a game-changer as re-enforcement of what was already known, but it does require action from Sky.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Kimmage was told his access would be very limitedunder orders from Wiggins. Kimmage refused of course he did, not wanting to waste his time as he was only going to do it if he had full access. What was Wiggins hiding?

In 2010? A heavy waistline and a drinking habit.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Clearly, Sky should have interviewed Levi for their screening process instead of Leinders.

Next.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Whatever Wiggins says will be under strict PR limitations so it would not mean much anyways.

I wouldn't be too confident of that! But yes, it's not Wiggins' responsibility to respond to this, plus Sky will have to wait until this story becomes more 'official' since at the moment it is unconfirmed.

 

[JimmyFingers]

For me it's important to put personal differnces aside with the delivery of this news.

Then why mention my name in the post you link to the story?