Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[peterst6906]

Wiggins didn't finish the Tour in 2011.

Two season prior was 2010 without Leinders and you saw how that went for Wiggins.

2012 with Leinders - Victory!

I think he's getting at more that Lenders joined Sky in 2011. Two seasons before that was 2009.

I don't personally think Lenders was the reason for Brads transformation. That was someone else's program. Lenders just helped provide those last marginal gains to get him to #1 (that and a leash on Froome).

 

[Froome19]

He was also able to fit the 2008 Giro in weeks before winning golds on the track in Beijing.

But apparently at the gts he did in 05 6 and 7 which were years from the olympics, he couldnt risk measuring his own performance up a mountain because he had an olympics to think about

Thomas also did the Giro prior to racing in London. It was done as it is actually beneficial for his training in the buildup to the track.

Thank you Hitch. You put it more eloquently than I did.

I'm not going to bother to respond to Froome or MR after this. Good luck.

You haven't really come up with anything convincing to argue, so yes it may very well be better to flee and allow Hitch to do the arguing.

 

[thehog]

I think he's getting at more that Lenders joined Sky in 2011. Two seasons before that was 2009.

I don't personally think Lenders was the reason for Brads transformation. That was someone else's program. Lenders just helped provide those last marginal gains to get him to #1 (that and a leash on Froome).

I'm not sure what he's getting at....

Appears to be made up as as he goes along...

 

[ferryman]

Thomas also did the Giro prior to racing in London. It was done as it is actually beneficial for his training in the buildup to the track.


You haven't really come up with anything convincing to argue, so yes it may very well be better to flee and allow Hitch to do the arguing.

Oh dear young Froome, there is no argument here just plain facts, which you haven't or indeed any other Sky fan have even remotely addressed convincingly. Please feel free to dismantle any point made. Make it convincing though. Particularly, transition through 2008/9 from track/giro/olympics/waster/late training/weight loss (after months on the beer)/climbing with the best after racing the broom wagon. Come on convince me. Cheers.

 

[andy1234]

Funny how all these guys, Wiggins, Froome, Rogers, Porte, all discovered they are the equivalents of Hinault, LeMond, Fignon, and Mottet. That does not even pass the laugh test. We are not talking about generalized performances by generalized riders. We are talking about Chris Freakin' Froome, a nobody at large who was barely good enough to be hired by a Pro Tour team; Mick "Ferrari and Freiberg" Rogers, who now performs better than than he did when he was under the care of The Myth; Brad "Too Cool for School" Wigans, who deceives the public by using an off-season fat weight to claim he lost twelve kilos; and D!ck Porte, whose biggest achievement is placing high in the Giro as the result of the leaders allowing a fifty-six man break to get away. Yet, masterracer would have us believe that these chumps suddenly found out that they are all the physical equivalents of legends in the sport.

Wiggins is the physical equivalent to legends you quote.

Of course those legends didn't begin their career in the Wild West doping era, but luckily for Wiggins, his whole career hasn't taken place during that era.

Hopefully the USA can produce a clean rider with the same physical attributes as Wiggins or LeMond again, and allow the embarrassment that is US cycling, to move on.

 

[the sceptic]

Wiggins is the physical equivalent to legends you quote.

Of course those legends didn't begin their career in the Wild West doping era, but luckily for Wiggins, his whole career hasn't taken place during that era.

Hopefully the USA can produce a clean rider with the same physical attributes as Wiggins or LeMond again, and allow the embarrassment that is US cycling, to move on.

Why did Wiggo show now signs of said talent while he spent about 5 years trying to hang onto the gruppetto then?

 

[BroDeal]

Why did Wiggo show now signs of said talent while he spent about 5 years trying to hang onto the gruppetto then?

Doncha know? He spent seven years riding on pro road teams before finally deciding to buckle down and try to make something of himself. That's the official story.

 

[BroDeal]

Wiggins is the physical equivalent to legends you quote.

Have any explanation for Froome and Rogers and Porte?

<crickets/>

 

[Ferminal]

I'm not cherry picking numbers - Ross Tucker has ample analyses of key grand tour climbs and time trials documenting this declining trend. He has no dog in the fight as far as I know and there are also ample SRM files available online from key players. Nibali's files are a prime example, as he lost almost no time to the leaders on climbs last year, with the exception of one when he lost under 30 seconds due to a cramp.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/search/label/Cycling

I do not see consistent data.

 

[andy1234]

Have any explanation for Froome and Rogers and Porte?

<crickets/>

Froome, Rogers and Porte have yet to show they are capable of winning a GT.
They have shown they are capable of helping Wiggins win a GT though.

One rider with the physiology capable of winning, several riders with the physiology capable of helping.

Happy to help.

 

[andy1234]

Why did Wiggo show now signs of said talent while he spent about 5 years trying to hang onto the gruppetto then?

The same reason LeMond would have been an unknown if he had started his career in the 90s instead of the 80s.

6.7 w/kg makes 6.1 w/kg look very ordinary.

 

[Ferminal]

How is the 2011 Vuelta not Froome showing he can win a GT?

 

[BroDeal]

Froome, Rogers and Porte have yet to show they are capable of winning a GT.
They have shown they are capable of helping Wiggins win a GT though.

One rider with the physiology capable of winning, several riders with the physiology capable of helping.

Happy to help.

Try again. Froome would have won the 2011 Vuelta and the 2012 Tour if he had not been forced to babysit Wiggins.

 

[andy1234]

How is the 2011 Vuelta not Froome showing he can win a GT?

Did he win it?

 

[Ferminal]

Did he win it?

That wasn't what you said.

He finished second and would have won if he wasn't required to work for an inferior teammate. Therefore, it's safe to say he showed he was capable of winning a GT.

Unless you're including the ego to not do what you're told by the team as part of the necessary "capabilities".

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Did he win it?

Froome is calling earth:

are you on the same frequency Andy?

 

[andy1234]

Try again. Froome would have won the 2011 Vuelta and the 2012 Tour if he had not been forced to babysit Wiggins.

So we are only discussing one rider other than Wiggins now?

I thought Sky had a few riders with the ability of LeMond and Fignon?

 

[BroDeal]

So we are only discussing one rider other than Wiggins now?

This is the Sky thread. The one that garnered 13K+ posts because of the sheer ridiculousness of the transformation of Sky's riders. The Wigans thread is down a few rows.

I thought Sky had a few riders with the ability of LeMond and Fignon?

You are part of the faction that tells us all that. I suppose with a few injections of marginal gains those 80's riders could have climbed faster.

 

[andy1234]

This is the Sky thread. The one that garnered 13K+ posts because of the sheer ridiculousness of the transformation of Sky's riders. The Wigans thread is down a few rows.



You are part of the faction that tells us all that. I suppose with a few injections of marginal gains those 80's riders could have climbed faster.

Nah, its what you told me just a few posts ago, the other 13k posts must be confusing you.
I'm actually arguing that you are talking sh1te.

Again, happy to help.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Nah, its what you told me just a few posts ago, the other 13k posts must be confusing you.
I'm actually arguing that you are talking sh1te.

Again, happy to help.

if it helps, we have all cheered for dopers as fans, at least at one point.

 

[BroDeal]

Nah, its what you told me just a few posts ago, the other 13k posts must be confusing you.
I'm actually arguing that you are talking sh1te.

Again, happy to help.

You are the one talking sh!te about the reality that everyone else saw in the 2011 Vuelta and 2012 Tour. Drat! Inconvenient facts about Froome's ludicrous performances confound the Skrybabies once again.

You homers cannot even keep your excuses straight. You need to hold a big pow wow over there at Velorooms to get the official fanboy talking points consistent.

You do have to admire the chutzpah of trying to deflect questioning of the Froome Miracle by claiming the Sky thread is about Wiggins. Too bad the obvious dodge did not work. Maybe you can try another transparent attempt to stop people from addressing poins with which you--with good reason--are clearly uncomfortable .

 

[The Hitch]

Thomas also did the Giro prior to racing in London. It was done as it is actually beneficial for his training in the buildup to the track.

.

Thomas also did the giro in 2008 . Had you done your research that would have been a better example.to use than 2012

Since you mentioned 2012 though Thomas did say that he did the giro so that he wouldn't have to.suspend his road career entirely for the year.

But im sure he was just trying to.hide the.fact that riding up the mortirolo is perfect training for a team pursuit race. Thomas's vital training on chase the time.limit up 17% gradients, camp was probably what won it.

Wiggins managed perfectly fine in Athens 04 without the giro as have all the other pursuit riders since forever so the idea you have come.up.with that he did.it.for.training seems.a bit thin to me
He likely.did.the giro because he wanted road contract money which is fair enough considering track cyclists are underpaid.

Not that any of this matters because your post,.while.wrong,.actually backs up.rather than challenges my point - that gts don't destroy track ability, and therefore challenges your allies who try to.sell.on that wiggins couldn't try in gts because he needed to think about the track.

 

[The Hitch]

Froome, Rogers and Porte have yet to show they are capable of winning a GT.
They have shown they are capable of helping Wiggins win a GT though.

One rider with the physiology capable of winning, several riders with the physiology capable of helping.

Happy to help.

Froome completed the 2011 vuelta in the fastest.time. To suggest he has not.shown himself.capable of.winning a gt is.just another in.a.long line.of wackjob comments this thread has brought out of.people.

 

[Ferminal]

Nah, they won the TP because Bobridge DNF'ed on the final stage whilst Thomas made it to Milan. If only Jack made it to the top of Stelvio...

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Nah, they won the TP because Bobridge DNF'ed on the final stage whilst Thomas made it to Milan. If only Jack made it to the top of Stelvio...

That, and because Glenn O'shea was not good enough.