Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

Page 631 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jul 17, 2012
5,303
0
0
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
It is for me, since I overestimated Dario's abilities it seems.

But as you say, when the fourth - actually third - domestique drops Evans after going flatout and softwheels 50 seconds behind Evans across the finishline he has made some marginal gains in comparison to last year.
Jimmy, it was your claim he was such a great climber pointing at that Vuelta win. I merely want to point out he was nowhere to be seen on the Mortirolo/Stelvio.

I was pointing to performances that meant he was capable of putting a short but powerful stint at the front of the field before dropping back and finishing well behind two riders he supposedly destroyed single-handedly.

That's my point, I think it stands, but it seems people just want to be pedants and pick at words and accuse me of dishonesty (not you).
 
Feb 19, 2013
431
0
0
sniper said:
walsh said he believes sky/wiggo are clean. that's a bias right there. objectively he can't know. as an anti-doping reporter he shouldn't say that.

It's a judgement. I believe tonnes of things that I can't 100% know for sure. So what?

of course they don't like kimmage. that's my whole point.

My point is that there are reasons to dislike Kimmage that have nothing to do with doping.

btw: you said 'watch this space'. what did you mean?

I meant, let's see what he has to say.
 

thehog

BANNED
Jul 27, 2009
31,285
2
22,485
mattghg said:
It's a judgement. I believe tonnes of things that I can't 100% know for sure. So what?



My point is that there are reasons to dislike Kimmage that have nothing to do with doping.



I meant, let's see what he has to say.

Hi Jociem.
 
Mar 10, 2009
7,268
1
0
Good to see that the SKY experiment is like clockwork. A new project, new people, new everything, no hiccups whatsoever. Brailsford is actually already 2 or 3 years ahead of schedule, winning the TdF (with a Brit even!)

Brailsford and Sky gave themselves five years for that particular goal, and have achieved their target in three.

Source

It's all about handpicking staff (like Steven de Jongh; Leinders; and what other guys have been dismissed since last year):

Part of doing so well so quickly was building a team of riders around Bradley Wiggins that ensured he was "never isolated". "Hand-picking staff with a hire-and-fire mentality" was another "massive contributory factor".

Other teams have computers picking their staff and most of those have the Spanish siesta mentality...

Furthermore commitment and talent:

"You need massive talent and you need a level of commitment, which has been outstanding, and he's [Wiggins] got both.

A problem with their first season was that they were "too advanced," "too revolutionary."

"We tried to overcomplicate things in 2010. You apply a theory, you do it, and you review it, and if you're rigorous you'll move forward," Brailsford said. "It's all about doing the simple things better than anybody else.

So they actually had to become more like a traditional cycling team, because their initial overcomplicated numbers computer science data technology driven approach was just not giving them the results. Funny, that within a year - i.e. not even giving it a real chance - they already came to the conclusion that to deliver the results, they actually had to "simplify their approach."

Sky's next goal is to become "the best cycling team the world's ever seen".

I bet they'll achieve that status by 2014. Just one frail year short of the 5 year plan to "just win one GT."

Impressive. A new project. No hiccups (besides their 2010 "overthinking things year") and delivering all the (evolving) goals they had set out to achieve, ahead of time, faster, and better than any other team. Rabo wanted a (preferably dutch) TdF winner... they aspired to realize that goal for over almost two decades. No one even came close, and that was with doping. SKY does it all and ahead of schedule!

Controlling the controllable.

2010 was their initiation, perhaps they even tried without the dope, but they saw they stood no chance. You make a decision, in light of your lofty ambition to produce a TdF winner in 5 years. If you can't even keep up in small one day races, how are you ever going to deliver a TdF winner. Just like Rabo, when in '96 or so the sponsor wanted results, especially in the big races. But we can't keep up!?

2010. New team, no dope infrastructure in place, it takes a while to get the logistics in place; the right people you can trust and who understand how it's done; the latest science on dope and detection evasion. Start building that medical library. Soon you have a dodgy doctor to consult for you, and by 2011 everything is progressing smoothly.

Lol. Sky Clockwork.
 
Apr 20, 2012
6,320
0
0
Bernie's eyesore said:
Evans was51st yesterday beaten 7.44 minutes. Using his performance as a benchmark is 100% irrelevant.
Guess he got the message when he sprinted past domestique Henao; nothing to win here.
I was pointing to performances that meant he was capable of putting a short but powerful stint at the front of the field before dropping back and finishing well behind two riders he supposedly destroyed single-handedly.
Let us disagree.
 

mastersracer

BANNED
Jun 8, 2010
1,298
0
0
Hope all the sky haters are watching T-A. Froome clinging on to last wheel after getting dropped by Sagan et al on the final climb.
 
Jul 17, 2012
5,303
0
0
Sky smashing it in the stage today, Froome a mere 50 seconds back on Nibali as it stands, and seemingly going backwards. All those fiendishly doped-up domestiques are nowhere
 
Mar 10, 2009
7,268
1
0
mastersracer said:
Hope all the sky haters are watching T-A. Froome clinging on to last wheel after getting dropped by Sagan et al on the final climb.

Zigzag Froome shouldn't even be there in the first place. "Abandon" behind his name or anonymous in the grupetto would be more realistic.
 
Feb 19, 2013
431
0
0
JimmyFingers said:
Sky smashing it in the stage today, Froome a mere 50 seconds back on Nibali as it stands, and seemingly going backwards. All those fiendishly doped-up domestiques are nowhere

You misunderstand. If Sky dominate a stage, they must be doping. If they're nowhere on a stage, it's evidence for nothing at all.
 
Jul 3, 2009
18,948
5
22,485
When has Froome ever shown anything in hilly classics style races? Him winning L-B-L would be more ridiculous than him doing the GT Double.
 

mastersracer

BANNED
Jun 8, 2010
1,298
0
0
Ferminal said:
When has Froome ever shown anything in hilly classics style races?

so now the fact that Sky got completely played and Froome was clinging on to the last wheel in his group alone isn't even a bit counter to the histrionics going on in this forum all week?
 
Dec 23, 2011
691
0
9,580
No no, Sky are just being clever. Overnight, they've been reading The Clinic, and they realised that they need to trim down Froome's performance, to appease the "Sky 'R' Doping" fans on here.

Whatever happens, the SkyHaters have a doping-related reason for everything.
 
Jul 17, 2012
5,303
0
0
Massive histrionics a couple of days ago, I said it was premature, that Froome won by a small margin and wasn't even certain of winning the race, but predictions went ahead that they would win everything going. Now on the basis of that stage Sky aren't the proverbial Death Star. Performance never equals proof.
 
Jul 3, 2009
18,948
5
22,485
mastersracer said:
so now the fact that Sky got completely played and Froome was clinging on to the last wheel in his group alone isn't even a bit counter to the histrionics going on in this forum all week?

What does that have to do with me? Unless you're accusing me of being histrionical?

Not every GC rider is a hilly classics rider (although many are). Froome has always been an engine TT and climb type who isn't suited to classic conditions, even when he wasn't very good. That he would suddenly acquire the ability to win the hardest of hilly classics would be a bigger transformation than he has already undergone.
 
May 26, 2009
4,114
0
0
Bad blood bags for Sky last night. Here's hoping Sir Brad gets a similar kicking on Italian roads in 2 months time :)
 
Jul 17, 2012
5,303
0
0
Stage like that and all the discussion is still on the Sky thread, no Sagan thread bobbing back up to the top of the clinic. Is there anything he can't do?
 
Jul 17, 2012
5,303
0
0
Havetts said:
One stage in terrible weather where the SkyTrain isnt 100%, is proof they arent doping? Lawl.

Performance isn't proof, either way. But if a winning stage is certainly held up as evidence of doping, it follows that a stage where they get smashed up is going to be used in a similar way. Lawl
 
Jul 3, 2009
18,948
5
22,485
JimmyFingers said:
Stage like that and all the discussion is still on the Sky thread, no Sagan thread bobbing back up to the top of the clinic. Is there anything he can't do?

If you want to bump a Sagan thread to defend him, I will be happy to engage with you.
 
Jul 8, 2012
705
5
9,995
JimmyFingers said:
Performance isn't proof, either way. But if a winning stage is certainly held up as evidence of doping, it follows that a stage where they get smashed up is going to be used in a similar way. Lawl

Oh please it's not like noone had any doubts, saw ONE stage win and suddenly started accusing Sky. 200 suspicious stage wins vs one stage loss don't compare ( and yes my 200 number is out of my rabbit hat ).