Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[zalacain]

There's no historical need for one. There have been two high profile doping cases involving British athletes in the last decade.

Really? http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/current-violations/

 

[MarkvW]

Is Sky's approach 'give them a doctor and what happens between them and their doctor is a confidential matter that Sky is not interested in'?

 

[Roderick]

Actually the only thing that really strikes me about all of Team Sky is the fact that almost no journalist or DS wonders where the **** The Dog came from in the Vuelta '11. Two years before that he still needed training wheels to go in a straight line uphill, but suddenly he's one of the best GT-riders?

 

[will10]

My question is: what period is a doctor "employed" for? Was he present at training camps? Photos suggest that he was. I'd be surprised if Leinders was free to work elsewhere when not at a race with Sky. In which case the 40/80 day throwaway line from Brailsford is nothing but a smokescreen. He was a team doctor, forget how many races he was actually present at, the guy worked for Team Sky, period.

In fact, thinking about it, claiming to employ a doctor embroiled in doping scandal, but only for a few days a year, is more suspicious than having him on the roster, not under the radar, and claiming innocence that they knew nothing about his dodgy past. Trying to juggle both stories at once is just daft, Mr. Brailsford. Sorry, Sir.

 

[L'arriviste]

I haven't been able to track Fabio Bartalucci down apart from those early 2012 races either, he's the real invisible man here. I also haven't been able to find anywhere apart from Dopeology that reckons that FB started with Sky or worked with them at all in 2011. Does anyone know where this info originally came from?

There's no concrete statement but a couple of sources suggest he was working temporarily for Sky in 2011.

LinkedIn

http://it.linkedin.com/pub/bartalucci-fabio/3b/9b7/635

Horse's mouth. Not updated since but at least it covers 2011.

And a different horse's mouth: Sky Italia followed the team at the 2011 Giro in the form of a video diary submitted by Dario David Cioni. Bartalucci pops up on Stage 8:

http://video.sky.it/sport/ciclismo/dietro_le_quinte_del_team_sky_parla_il_dottore/v87710.vid

 

[Wiggo Warrior]

There's no concrete statement but a couple of sources suggest he was working temporarily for Sky in 2011.

LinkedIn

http://it.linkedin.com/pub/bartalucci-fabio/3b/9b7/635

Horse's mouth. Not updated since but at least it covers 2011.

And a different horse's mouth: Sky Italia followed the team at the 2011 Giro in the form of a video diary submitted by Dario David Cioni. Bartalucci pops up on Stage 8:

http://video.sky.it/sport/ciclismo/dietro_le_quinte_del_team_sky_parla_il_dottore/v87710.vid

Great, thank you for this

 

[The Hitch]

Tyler Hamilton seems to be doing just fine. Millar is viewed as a hero in some quarters and could well go on to make a career after he retires as an anti doping ambassador. What has Sean Yates got to lose by speaking out? Everyone believes he was doping, he has no reputation to defend. He could do very well financially by telling all about what really went on during his career in cycling. Sounds a better option financially then being unemployed or working as a taxi driver.

Sorry did either of those guys come out voluntarily or did they get caught ?
Besides Millar? Who has Millar outed ?

 

[Wiggo Warrior]

My question is: what period is a doctor "employed" for? Was he present at training camps? Photos suggest that he was. I'd be surprised if Leinders was free to work elsewhere when not at a race with Sky. In which case the 40/80 day throwaway line from Brailsford is nothing but a smokescreen. He was a team doctor, forget how many races he was actually present at, the guy worked for Team Sky, period.

In fact, thinking about it, claiming to employ a doctor embroiled in doping scandal, but only for a few days a year, is more suspicious than having him on the roster, not under the radar, and claiming innocence that they knew nothing about his dodgy past. Trying to juggle both stories at once is just daft, Mr. Brailsford. Sorry, Sir.

Which photo's have you seen from training camps? The one that has appeared on the clinic of Hayman applying sunscreen appears to be at the Tour of Oman rather than a training camp but I could be wrong. I haven't been able to find any others that might be training camps.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

There's no concrete statement but a couple of sources suggest he was working temporarily for Sky in 2011.

LinkedIn

http://it.linkedin.com/pub/bartalucci-fabio/3b/9b7/635

Horse's mouth. Not updated since but at least it covers 2011.

And a different horse's mouth: Sky Italia followed the team at the 2011 Giro in the form of a video diary submitted by Dario David Cioni. Bartalucci pops up on Stage 8:

http://video.sky.it/sport/ciclismo/dietro_le_quinte_del_team_sky_parla_il_dottore/v87710.vid

You are in infowarrior. Respect.

 

[BYOP88]

Sorry did either of those guys come out voluntarily or did they get caught ?
Besides Millar? Who has Millar outed ?

Didn't Millar out Lelli, or said he took EPO for the first time with him.

 

[mattghg]

I'd be surprised if Leinders was free to work elsewhere when not at a race with Sky.

Why? Why wouldn't he be?

 

[will10]

Which photo's have you seen from training camps? The one that has appeared on the clinic of Hayman applying sunscreen appears to be at the Tour of Oman rather than a training camp but I could be wrong. I haven't been able to find any others that might be training camps.

I thought someone said it was from camp but happy to concede if that's not the case.

Why? Why wouldn't he be?

I'd just be surprised if his agreement with Sky didn't insist on being able to call him to a race at short notice if necessary. Also I would guess they paid him enough that he didn't need to work elsewhere.

Does anyone know if he worked anywhere else? Has Brailsford said what Leinders was doing the 275/325 days a year that he apparently didn't work for Sky?

 

[northstar]

<snip>

Thanks for the info. Appreciate your reply.

 

[xcleigh]

Sorry did either of those guys come out voluntarily or did they get caught ?
Besides Millar? Who has Millar outed ?

He hasn't outed anyone? Do you know if he's done so privately? Or does outing only count if it's done publicly? His book does give clues.

 

[martinvickers]

Link to David Walsh article number 2 from tenerife

summary : And before anyone complains, it's behind a firewall, so this is provided to those who can't get past it.

Recommendation for Leinders had come from Steven de Jongh

Leinders had worked 44 of his 80-day contract in 2012 when Theo de Rooy, former directeur sportif at Rabobank, did an interview with journalist Mark Miserus for the Dutch newspaper de Volksrant. De Rooy said there had been a doping programme at Rabobank and that Leinders had been part of it.

Brailsford asked for an explanation and Leinders claimed de Rooy’s words had been misinterpreted and insisted he, Leinders, had not been part of any doping programme. Sky’s boss judged that to keep him on while this allegation was being investigated would damage the reputation of the team. Leinders’ contract was paid up for 2012 and he was told the team would not use him again

Since then, Leinders has given interviews to Miserus and another Dutch journalist, Maarten Scholten, from Handelsblad. To both he said his role with Sky was “minimised,” meaning he had worked purely as a doctor. With Rabobank, he was involved in the conditioning and preparation of the riders

.

Sitting on a couch in the lobby of Hotel Parabor, I ask Hayman how he looked upon his 10 years at Rabobank. “From the beginning, I let it be known I wouldn’t dope and no one tried to push me. I didn’t want to go to bed worrying about testing positive. I suffered because of that, never got to ride in the Tour de France, and settled for the life of a domestique. I felt it was unfair and there were lots of performances I was suspicious about, from riders in other teams and riders in my own team.”

And Geert Leinders? “I have no proof, I didn’t see any doping but I felt there were riders in the team who used doping and I was sure some members of staff were helping them.”

“I spoke to a lot of guys from Rabobank, both on and off the record,” says Mark Miserus. “They pointed the finger at each other but no one mentioned Hayman in connection with doping.”

Brailsford accepts Sky’s recruitment processes weren’t sufficiently rigorous. “We asked questions about Geert, no one raised an alarm and we didn’t see the need to grill people. As the person responsible for bringing him in, I thought maybe I should resign. I got it wrong and if the board had wanted me to step down, I would have.”

After Leinders’ departure, Team Sky reverted to its policy of employing doctors who haven’t previously worked in cycling and the new head doctor is Alan Farrell, recruited from a practice in Dublin.

They come to this training camp in Tenerife without a doctor, as Kerrison likes to strip things down when they’re in Teide. “There’s a time for giving the riders all the support and a time for focusing them on the things that matter. Up here we try to eliminate all the distractions.”

He then adds: “We’ve been here eight times and only once have the testers come. It’s only a two-hour flight from Spain, a 50-minute drive from the airport. Once in eight visits here is pretty disappointing.”

 

[Ferminal]

Cheers, full version doesn't seem to be on google news.

Surely Rogers gets a mention after that intro

 

[blackcat]

I have my photograph taken with Lance Armstrong. Would you like to see?”

“Did Dr Ferrari stay here too?”

“Oh yes, he come always with his family.”

need to channel our omniscient one

BigBoat ehehehhehehe

 

[martinvickers]

Cheers, full version doesn't seem to be on google news.

Surely Rogers gets a mention after that intro

News international filter out Google news. I'd give the full version, but last time I did, Wiggo complained...

 

[Netserk]

News international filter out Google news. I'd give the full version, but last time I did, Wiggo complained...

Wiggo who?

Just curious

 

[martinvickers]

Wiggo who?

Just curious

Dear Wiggo - though my memory may be playing up...

 

[Netserk]

Well, is that a problem?

 

[martinvickers]

Well, is that a problem?

Fair enough.

Sky living on the edge

Settling for second relieves doping accusations for Team Sky as Dave Brailsford admits recruitment processes could have been better

David Walsh Published: 17 March 2013

At over 2,000 metres, the Hotel Parador often sits above the clouds. It is located in the Teide National Park in Tenerife where the volcanic landscape takes your breath away, replacing it with the cleanest mountain air.

Here professional cycling teams have been coming to train for almost two decades. “US Postal,” the man at reception says, “for five years they came. First as Postal, then as Discovery. I have my photograph taken with Lance Armstrong. Would you like to see?”

“Did Dr Ferrari stay here too?”

“Oh yes, he come always with his family.”

There were suspicions about US Postal’s training camps in Tenerife. Why did they go there? How often did the testers show up? Armstrong and his key teammates came, trained, and returned to conquer. After they’d gone Teide’s pure air had the whiff of toxicity.

On this crisp March morning, it is eight riders from Team Sky who head off on a five and a half hour ride. Seven times Sky have returned to this island, their faith in the high-altitude location expressed most keenly by their head of performance, the Australian Tim Kerrison. To anyone who has spent more than 10 minutes with the team, the importance of Kerrison’s contribution is clear. He has been Dave Brailsford’s key appointment and what has been achieved has much to do with Kerrison’s coaching and mentoring of the riders. We meet before dinner on Wednesday. Straightforward questions, I say, Oprah-like, needing a yes or no.

“Have you ever been involved in doping, either in Australia or in the UK?” “No.” “Have you ever witnessed doping either in swimming or cycling?” “No.” “Have you ever seen anything in any programme you were part of that made you suspicious?” “No.” “If you came across anything suspicious in Team Sky, would you immediately tell Dave Brailsford?” “Yes.” “Would you leave Team Sky if you felt any form of doping was tolerated?” “Yes.”

After becoming the world’s number one team last year, Team Sky have started this season well. Last weekend Richie Porte, 28, became the first Australian to win the Paris to Nice stage race. On the morning of the final day time trial, the climb to Col d’Eze, Kerrison spoke to Porte and reminded him that his training rides showed he could produce an average power output of 400 watts on the climb.

Setting off quickly, Porte produced an average 416 watts on the first half of the climb, 384 on the second half. He won the race decisively. The greater challenge came in the press conference, where half the questions concerned doping. “I was warned by our press officer to expect it but I still found it hard,” says Porte. “For God’s sake, I’d just won the biggest race of my life.

“Some buffoon asked me about the state of Dutch cycling [because of the doping investigation into the Rabobank team]. How am I supposed to answer that? I’ve never done a thing wrong in my career and I end up having to defend myself and my team.” At the same time as Porte was winning Paris-Nice, his teammate Chris Froome was leading the Tirreno-Adriatico in Italy. But on the following day, Monday, Froome lost the leader’s jersey, falling to second, the position he would fill when the race ended on Tuesday. Brailsford was uncharacteristically cool about the team’s loss of the race leadership.

“My immediate feeling was that there was a bigger picture to this. Because of our success, there has been rumour and innuendo about what we’re supposed to be doing. Chris lost the lead because he, Rigo Uran and Sergio Henao were stuffed from their efforts the day before. They showed vulnerability and suddenly Team Sky were no longer this winning machine.”

Kerrison adds: “It’s sad, where we don’t get it right and we’re saying, ‘At least people can see we’re not perfect and there’s less of an argument for those who want to say we’re doping’. It’s dangerous for us to get into that mindset.” The difficulty for Team Sky was that Geert Leinders was back in the news last week and when Leinders is in the news, it’s bad news for the top cycling team.


ON TUESDAY, October 19, 2010, Dr Geert Leinders flew from his Belgium home to Manchester. He had come for an interview for a position on Team Sky’s medical team.

Recommendation for Leinders had come from Steven de Jongh, a directeur sportif with Sky who had worked with Leinders while both were at the Dutch team Rabobank.

That Leinders was in Manchester was indicative of a change in policy at Sky for when the team was founded a year before, it committed to employing doctors who had not previously worked in professional cycling. Brailsford wanted to create a team above suspicion and with a clear code of ethics but a disappointing first season was followed by a review. It was agreed that the team’s medical team had not been good enough and that contrary to the team’s charter, it needed doctors with experience in bike racing. So the policy was changed. Leinders was interviewed first by the team’s medical chief, Dr Steve Peters, then by team doctor Richard Freeman, before Peters again spoke to Leinders and two other applicants.

“We needed a doctor with experience and the guy I met [Leinders] appeared very ethical, very professional and very compassionate,” says Peters. “He was also very knowledgeable about cycling, training, the different races. This wasn’t an appointment made lightly, Dave [Brailsford] and I had spoken a lot about how we could get tarnished by our involvement in pro road racing and how that would diminish everything we achieved with the track team. It was a massive fear.”

Peters understood track racing and its world but on that October day in 2010, he knew little about professional road cycling. He didn’t know about Rabobank, the cycling team Leinders had been with from 1996 to 2009, and didn’t ask Leinders what he knew about the team’s Michael Rasmussen being withdrawn while leading the Tour de France on suspicion of doping. Neither did he ask what breach of “internal rules” had led to Thomas Dekker being kicked off the team.

“I could have grilled him and grilled him but when someone assures you that he has not been involved in doping, that doesn’t seem appropriate,” says Peters.

After Peters’ interview, Leinders was then interviewed by Freeman, who quizzed him on his medical skills and was impressed. Peters and Freeman recommended Leinders be hired and Brailsford offered a contract that meant he could be asked to work for up to 80 days in 2011. He worked 67 days for Team Sky that year and was liked by the riders for his ability and admired by the management for his professionalism.

Peters insists he was scrupulously ethical in his time with Sky. “We agreed as a team that if a rider, suffering from asthma, got into trouble with pollen we would pull him out of the race rather than apply for a therapeutic use exemption on his behalf. Once, one of our riders was in this situation and the doctor got in touch with me and asked if we could get an exemption because the guy was in a bad way but was very keen to finish the race.

“Using my discretion, I said ‘OK’. It was Geert who rang me afterwards to tell me I was wrong. ‘We’ve got to have consistency,’ he said.” Leinders had worked 44 of his 80-day contract in 2012 when Theo de Rooy, former directeur sportif at Rabobank, did an interview with journalist Mark Miserus for the Dutch newspaper de Volksrant. De Rooy said there had been a doping programme at Rabobank and that Leinders had been part of it.

Brailsford asked for an explanation and Leinders claimed de Rooy’s words had been misinterpreted and insisted he, Leinders, had not been part of any doping programme. Sky’s boss judged that to keep him on while this allegation was being investigated would damage the reputation of the team. Leinders’ contract was paid up for 2012 and he was told the team would not use him again. Since then, Leinders has given interviews to Miserus and another Dutch journalist, Maarten Scholten, from Handelsblad. To both he said his role with Sky was “minimised,” meaning he had worked purely as a doctor. With Rabobank, he was involved in the conditioning and preparation of the riders and, it is alleged by Rasmussen, Dekker and Danny Nelissen, in doping.

 

[martinvickers]

And Part ii

THE fall-out continues for Team Sky. While in Tenerife last week 34-year-old Australian rider Mat Hayman took a call from a cycling journalist and was asked about his memories of working with Leinders at Rabobank. Hayman said he would prefer not to comment, an answer that didn’t please Brailsford. “It was a legitimate question and Mat should have addressed it.” Sitting on a couch in the lobby of Hotel Parabor, I ask Hayman how he looked upon his 10 years at Rabobank. “From the beginning, I let it be known I wouldn’t dope and no one tried to push me. I didn’t want to go to bed worrying about testing positive. I suffered because of that, never got to ride in the Tour de France, and settled for the life of a domestique. I felt it was unfair and there were lots of performances I was suspicious about, from riders in other teams and riders in my own team.” And Geert Leinders? “I have no proof, I didn’t see any doping but I felt there were riders in the team who used doping and I was sure some members of staff were helping them.”

“I spoke to a lot of guys from Rabobank, both on and off the record,” says Mark Miserus. “They pointed the finger at each other but no one mentioned Hayman in connection with doping.”

Brailsford accepts Sky’s recruitment processes weren’t sufficiently rigorous. “We asked questions about Geert, no one raised an alarm and we didn’t see the need to grill people. As the person responsible for bringing him in, I thought maybe I should resign. I got it wrong and if the board had wanted me to step down, I would have.”

After Leinders’ departure, Team Sky reverted to its policy of employing doctors who haven’t previously worked in cycling and the new head doctor is Alan Farrell, recruited from a practice in Dublin.

They come to this training camp in Tenerife without a doctor, as Kerrison likes to strip things down when they’re in Teide. “There’s a time for giving the riders all the support and a time for focusing them on the things that matter. Up here we try to eliminate all the distractions.” He then adds: “We’ve been here eight times and only once have the testers come. It’s only a two-hour flight from Spain, a 50-minute drive from the airport. Once in eight visits here is pretty disappointing.”

 

[Netserk]

After I re-read the rules (since I actually had some doubt), it seems rule number 14 covers this :S

I had honestly totally forgotten that rule, but here it is:

14. Copying bodies of text or images from copyrighted sources and posting them here breaches the author/owner's copyright. Post links to the legal host of such items instead. Violations will result in deletion of the items in question, warnings and/or infractions.

Sorry Martin for misguidance

 

[martinvickers]

After I re-read the rules (since I actually had some doubt), it seems rule number 14 covers this :S

I had honestly totally forgotten that rule, but here it is:


Sorry Martin for misguidance

No problems, feel free to delete