Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[del1962]

Well, there is Nordhaug, but, of course, he also got sick after coming of SKY, and kinda crap at the same time.

No one else but Rogers left from the 'A-team', or am I forgetting someone?

Because, thats not childish at all.

Plenty of people have improved since leaving Sky though, like Gerrans

Thens there is Lofquist who went downhill since joining Sky, and is now showing signs of improvement

It looks after early setbacks Nordhaug with his Ardennes performances is at least on a par with last season.

Plenty of riders have lower CQ scores since joining Sky though, JTL for example, or Serge Pauwels who CQ scores declined at Sky and improved after, (not saying we can go totally on these scores but they are an indication)

And what was your Toad comment about?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Is it one rider?
What time of the day were the samples taken?
Did the rider spend any time at altitude?
Was the rider unwell at any stage?

Yeah.
Variable
Yes
Probably.

He is also a confessed EPO and blood doper.

 

[thehog]

I think the website is an important resource and you do good work on it.

Thanks for the seal of approval Jimmy.

We look forward to the JimmyFingers forum poster of the month award.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Such a singular wit

One might even say witless

 

[Galic Ho]

It's a British Thing? How so? Or do you tar am entire nation by virtue of the actions of a couple of individuals? By that definition all Americans dope, all Italians snort coke and all Russians are brutal thugs.

No. I am just generalising BAD BRITS. Jenson Button is AWESOME.

 

[Galic Ho]

So you can't name anyone other than rogers who had an injury,

You asked for people who left the team, not injuries.

It's not my job to rehash the same 18,000 post again and again.

Is it your role? Sorry, my bad...that's rhetorical del, don't answer.

 

[Galic Ho]

Well, there is Nordhaug, but, of course, he also got sick after coming of SKY, and kinda crap at the same time.

No one else but Rogers left from the 'A-team', or am I forgetting someone?

Because, thats not childish at all.

Give it a year. We don't even know who the 'new' A-Team is.

I for one do not think 2012 will repeat itself. No way does Chris Froome help Wiggins again. No way. Not after 2012. He's got the power and he wants the glory. Also Richie is his best pal or BFF.

Back to the A-Team. We need to wait and see who mucks up or annoys someone. As was the case with many, many Italian teams, even Spanish ones, the odd helper who was doped to the gills often gets popped after they leave the safe confides of a big Pro Tour team. Watching the guys who leave who are eager to hold onto their form from Sky, they will be the key. Rogers seems to be the type who is quite happy to fall back into mediocrity. Others? No. They can't let go. A credit to Rogers is that he seems to be able to hop off and not give a darn.

 

[Galic Ho]

Hahaha - I love this... dont always agree with this chap/ess but this is good.

There are a lot of psychological and behavioural parallels between Wiggins post 2009 and LA. It's not like Wiggins was keeping quite about his man crush. It's who he modeled himself after.

But like I said. There is only one genuine LA. Wiggins would be better versed not copying him. Image wise it most certainly would help his standing among people who actually watch cycling all year.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Thanks for the seal of approval Jimmy.

We look forward to the JimmyFingers forum poster of the month award.

I believe you are up for best fictional post of the year.

How many years in a row now would that be?

 

[thehog]

I believe you are up for best fictional post of the year.

How many years in a row now would that be?

Which post is that? The one where I post a picture of Froome-Dawg going sideways?

If that post wins the award I'll gladly take the prize.

What award do you win? The David Beckham award for most knowledge about the men of football award?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Which post is that? The one where I post a picture of Froome-Dawg going sideways?

Are you sure it was Froome? You could not recognise Porte. But you recognised Wiggins when he was with Dr Ferrari, no?

What award do you win? The David Beckham award for most knowledge about the men of football award?

Well, I know the difference between Sky sports and Fox sports. Something that has eluded you thus far Big J.

I am starting to think you bought your degree on ze interweb.

 

[JimmyFingers]

He was at Cambridge remember.

Once. He had to change trains

 

[sittingbison]

There are a lot of psychological and behavioural parallels between Wiggins post 2009 and LA. It's not like Wiggins was keeping quite about his man crush. It's who he modeled himself after.

But like I said. There is only one genuine LA. Wiggins would be better versed not copying him. Image wise it most certainly would help his standing among people who actually watch cycling all year.

I disagree with the bolded, but agree entirely there is only one genuine LA and Sir Wiggo had better not try and emulate him...which he might well have been trying to model himself before the Reasoned Decision but not after.

Sir Wiggo has certain personality traits that are obnoxious, he looses the plot easily, rants, makes stupid comments in public, makes some comments that are contrary to others etc etc etc but he is not (and doesn't display any of the symptoms of) an unmitigated lying cheating sociopathic scumbag that Lance has displayed his entire career.

He doesn't even have gimlet like shifty eyes.

 

[BroDeal]

I disagree with the bolded, but agree entirely there is only one genuine LA and Sir Wiggo had better not try and emulate him...which he might well have been trying to model himself before the Reasoned Decision but not after.

Sir Wiggo has certain personality traits that are obnoxious, he looses the plot easily, rants, makes stupid comments in public, makes some comments that are contrary to others etc etc etc but he is not (and doesn't display any of the symptoms of) an unmitigated lying cheating sociopathic scumbag that Lance has displayed his entire career.

He doesn't even have gimlet like shifty eyes.

Can you ever trust someone who thinks it is cool to wear a get-up like this? I think not.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yeah.
Variable
Yes
Probably.

He is also a confessed EPO and blood doper.

My basic understanding is that reduced partial pressure of O2 in a body triggers EPO production to increase RBC production to negate the hypoxia the body is experiencing.

This reduced partial pressure can occur due to things like being at altitude, being unwell, losing blood, etc.

It's also my belief, that because it's EPO increase that stimulates RBC increase (and RBCs start with reticulocytes) retic% is an indicator of EPO production. ie higher retic% = higher EPO presence in the body. Iron utilisation can have a similar impact, but given these guys are elite athletes, I'd prefer to think they are on a good diet, and that iron intake is sufficient.

So I - simplistically, I will admit - expect things like
low Hgb = high -- baseline retic%
baseline Hgb = baseline +/- some % retic%
high Hgb = baseline -- reduced retic%

so the low Hgb and low retic% doesn't make a lot of sense to me - neither does the high Hgb and high retic%.

But the picture it paints is - to my eye - a mess. The timing has been removed and timing adds significant context to the readings. We expect plasma volume expansion over the course of a season and over the course of a 3 week GT.

The context (altitude, sickness, racing, early season, late season) is also missing from the values, so again, IMO you can't really tell anything from the values graphed as they are.

Personally I find the graph useless.

 

[sittingbison]

Can you ever trust someone who thinks it is cool to wear a get-up like this? I think not.

sartorial splendour is another matter entirely. One thing you could never fault Lance and his entourage of is lacking in style....after all he had oakley, giro, nike etc all in his corner along with hookers and blo. I'm dubious Anshauer-Busch (sic) should be in this list though.

Sir Wiggo on the other hand has brushed forward fringe, mutton chop sideys and what the hell is it...Rapha?? clobber and gawd strike me pink a kravat? And instead of Sheryl Crow or a Twin on his arm has a middle aged bald toady/batman.

 

[Ripper]

He doesn't even have gimlet like shifty eyes.

LMMFAO.

Holy cr@p is that funny!

 

[ianfra]

I disagree with the bolded, but agree entirely there is only one genuine LA and Sir Wiggo had better not try and emulate him...which he might well have been trying to model himself before the Reasoned Decision but not after.

Sir Wiggo has certain personality traits that are obnoxious, he looses the plot easily, rants, makes stupid comments in public, makes some comments that are contrary to others etc etc etc but he is not (and doesn't display any of the symptoms of) an unmitigated lying cheating sociopathic scumbag that Lance has displayed his entire career.

He doesn't even have gimlet like shifty eyes.

There is 100% no comparison between Wiggo and LA. That LA is a socio-path is without question. Indeed I think I must be one of the first to point this out on a public forum some time ago. Perhaps not. The reason I know and understand socio-paths is two-fold. 1. I owned a company which specialised in handbooks on mental health issues and as the publisher I spent a lot of time with professionals who work in this field; 2. My ex-wife is a socio-path and one of the things that can happen is that this personality disorder can be handed from mother to son. Sadly that happened to my son who is a time bomb waiting to go off. Fortunately he doesn't even live in the same country as me but whilst he was here we certainly had our moments.
The parallels between my ex and son and LA are massive. (That's why I put the finger on LA a long time ago, it was just so obvious to me.) In all honesty if I could find a set of similarities with Wiggo I would put my hand up here and now and doubt his every word. Wiggo does not have these issues. He's a normal bloke working in a stressful profession hence the occasional bit of temper which I think is something every poster on this board has experienced at one time or another. We all have our moments - fortunately for most of us these are private - celebrities tend to have theirs in public because they are in the media eye 24/7.
Talking about socio-paths: If you think of the damage LA has done to our sport - think about the damage my ex-wife has done to my life - it's a very nasty thing to have to live with and one reason why I moved from the UK to Thailand just to get away from it. Sadly, there are still many people who have not understood this personality disorder in LA and as a Thai resident I can say similar words about the ex-prime minister, Thaksin.
Indeed, this whole experience strengthens my belief that Wiggo is clean - he has a totally different set of ideals than those held by the sport's nemesis LA.

 

[zalacain]

Stop knocking Wiggo he is the only UK rider in this great British team for the Giro

 

[D-Queued]

Stop knocking Wiggo he is the only UK rider in this great British team for the Giro

Now, wasn't the British Empire sustained by the Colonies?

Perhaps, we should just think of the rest of the team as the British Expeditionary Force.

But, you are right, we should feel sorry for him given that he has been demoted to Domestique for the Tour.

Dave.

 

[Franklin]

Indeed, this whole experience strengthens my belief that Wiggo is clean - he has a totally different set of ideals than those held by the sport's nemesis LA.

Indeed, it's not that he publicly felated Lance and was spitting on everyone who dared to question Lance.

Ianfra, let me just say it would actually help if you would read what your beloved Wiggo said over the years. He's the Mitt Romney of cycling.

And let me say something which will literally blow your mind.... other GT winners don't flipflop or loose there character. Your notion that this is quite normal is actually belied by the thing called reality.

Oh and I don't know you, but divorcee's calling each other sociopath is hardly convincing. In fact I'm dismissing it out of hand without your ex-wife's view of it.

 

[The Hitch]

There is 100% no comparison between Wiggo and LA. That LA is a socio-path is without question. Indeed I think I must be one of the first to point this out on a public forum some time ago. Perhaps not. The reason I know and understand socio-paths is two-fold. 1. I owned a company which specialised in handbooks on mental health issues and as the publisher I spent a lot of time with professionals who work in this field; 2. My ex-wife is a socio-path and one of the things that can happen is that this personality disorder can be handed from mother to son. Sadly that happened to my son who is a time bomb waiting to go off. Fortunately he doesn't even live in the same country as me but whilst he was here we certainly had our moments.
The parallels between my ex and son and LA are massive. (That's why I put the finger on LA a long time ago, it was just so obvious to me.) In all honesty if I could find a set of similarities with Wiggo I would put my hand up here and now and doubt his every word. Wiggo does not have these issues. He's a normal bloke working in a stressful profession hence the occasional bit of temper which I think is something every poster on this board has experienced at one time or another. We all have our moments - fortunately for most of us these are private - celebrities tend to have theirs in public because they are in the media eye 24/7.
Talking about socio-paths: If you think of the damage LA has done to our sport - think about the damage my ex-wife has done to my life - it's a very nasty thing to have to live with and one reason why I moved from the UK to Thailand just to get away from it. Sadly, there are still many people who have not understood this personality disorder in LA and as a Thai resident I can say similar words about the ex-prime minister, Thaksin.
Indeed, this whole experience strengthens my belief that Wiggo is clean - he has a totally different set of ideals than those held by the sport's nemesis LA.

You're an idiot. Wiggins was Lances biggest fan inside the whole peloton. Thats not even an exageration, there was no one in the peloton who was as big a fanboy of lance and everything lance stood for. He was even singing about how great lance was on the podium of Paris nice last year

 

[The Hitch]

Funny, i went to get a picture of wiggins first "biography" which has lance on it of course, and theres 2 tiny pictures of it, too small to use, but loads of a new cover which has wiggins without lance of course. funny

instead of admitting they were "wrong" about lance - the line his fanboys here take,

or say that his words were taken out of context (the line his super extreme fanboys take on here, which is of course easily rebbutted since wiggins comments were always shown in their full context)

super honest open - ask us any questions well answer it, sky and wiggins instead prefer to pretend like they never did idolize lance, like thye never did call themselves uk postal, that wiggins never did cast doubt on landis's testimony, that he wasnt praising him weeks before the usada report came out.

An honest person when they make a mistake say - yep i made a mistake. Heres why i did it...... I was wrong, im sorry i take responsibility and i understand that some people may not forgive me nor believe me.

Someone who responds - your a ****er, shut up about it, people like kimmage are just bitter, they should get over it, and stop living with their parents. Then tries to burn all the evidence. Well, i suppose nationalism is so strong that some people will still trust them. People who know how to use their brains on the other hand...

 

[BYOP88]

Funny, i went to get a picture of wiggins first "biography" which has lance on it of course, and theres 2 tiny pictures of it, too small to use, but loads of a new cover which has wiggins without lance of course. funny

instead of admitting they were "wrong" about lance - the line his fanboys here take,

or say that his words were taken out of context (the line his super extreme fanboys take on here, which is of course easily rebbutted since wiggins comments were always shown in their full context)

super honest open - ask us any questions well answer it, sky and wiggins instead prefer to pretend like they never did idolize lance, like thye never did call themselves uk postal, that wiggins never did cast doubt on landis's testimony, that he wasnt praising him weeks before the usada report came out.

An honest person when they make a mistake say - yep i made a mistake. Heres why i did it...... I was wrong, im sorry i take responsibility and i understand that some people may not forgive me nor believe me.

Someone who responds - your a ****er, shut up about it, people like kimmage are just bitter, they should get over it, and stop living with their parents. Then tries to burn all the evidence. Well, i suppose nationalism is so strong that some people will still trust them. People who know how to use their brains on the other hand...

Picture taken from the 09 TdF if memory serves me correctly. Also remember Wiggins saying a few months ago that 'he never raced against Lance'.

 

[ianfra]

Indeed, it's not that he publicly felated Lance and was spitting on everyone who dared to question Lance.

Ianfra, let me just say it would actually help if you would read what your beloved Wiggo said over the years. He's the Mitt Romney of cycling.

And let me say something which will literally blow your mind.... other GT winners don't flipflop or loose there character. Your notion that this is quite normal is actually belied by the thing called reality.

Oh and I don't know you, but divorcee's calling each other sociopath is hardly convincing. In fact I'm dismissing it out of hand without your ex-wife's view of it.

1. 'there character'? do you mean 'their character'?
2. Ex wife diagnosed by TP, a leading psychiatrist