Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Granville57]

Sky must have an injection room elsewhere on the bus.

Or maybe on those chairs you just plug in and sit back.

Did you miss this direct quote?

In the end it took 9000 man hours - approximately four months - of blood

 

[martinvickers]

All im saying is that if its possible for british riders to win clean now then it should be possible before EPO doping as well. But maybe they didnt have such immense talents as Sir Brad back then

But that's not what you said, sceptic. You stated that pre EPO you could 'win clean' Why are you backtracking now?

 

[BroDeal]

All im saying is that if its possible for british riders to win clean now then it should be possible before EPO doping as well. But maybe they didnt have such immense talents as Sir Brad back then

It was the mood lights. They were not available to cyclists because the discos bought up the entire supply. Once disco died and EPO use resided, the true talent of the Brits was finally realized.

 

[blackcat]

Brits stayed out of doping because they are morally and physically superior people, who wont dope and by extention will win when doping disappears.

Its good though for a poster to come right up front with just how backward their mentality is.

its the chariots of fire muscular christianity Gordonstoun shtick

 

[blackcat]

Actually, it's neither tiresome, nor ridiculous. There is genuine and interesting academic work on the topic in a number of areas.

But it's pointless to discuss it here; it invites complete hysteria. and more to the point, it's probitive of absolutely nothing in relation to any individual athlete's doping habits.

So, yes, sigh. Pointless.

but it has been had before. whether americans. or australians. or french. and found vacuous

 

[martinvickers]

but it has been had before. whether americans. or australians. or french. and found vacuous

quod erat demonstrandum.

 

[thehog]

Sky's performances are very dirty, dodgy and not normal.

Sky are doping.

Froomedawg is an alien.

Wiggins consumes drugs,

 

[ultimobici]

Hmm it sounds like Belfast is eying an influx of lucrative cases. Perhaps there might even become a legal bubble. Interesting times ahead.

As for the corporation taxes, I think that will be a difficult option soon. With the big governments in Europe needing tax revenue, Irelands corporation taxes will become vulnerable. I think it's only a matter of time before that happens. Also I have my doubts whether the low corporate tax has been so beneficial to Ireland as many assume.

But do you have any comments on my first long post?

Ireland's corporation taxes are irrelevant as Belfast is in Northern Ireland not Eire.

 

[Netserk]

I'm going to clean this thread up, so it'll be closed for while. Please be patient.

EDIT: Cleaned. A lot of posts have been moved. Some will be moved back to this thread. Some will be moved to a new thread about libel. Some will be deleted.

 

[The Hitch]

This is a thread that deals specifically with Sky, a British outfit, no?

Yes, and how does that explain your prior comment that Britishness makes people less likely to dope?

 

[ToreBear]

I'm going to clean this thread up, so it'll be closed for while. Please be patient.

EDIT: Cleaned. A lot of posts have been moved. Some will be moved back to this thread. Some will be moved to a new thread about libel. Some will be deleted.

Sorry about that.

 

[workingclasshero]

Tell him about British libel laws.

ohhh yes that's always well interesting to hear about, jesus h christ calm down dear, it's a f*cking internet forum

 

[ToreBear]

ohhh yes that's always well interesting to hear about, jesus h christ calm down dear, it's a f*cking internet forum

Hey it is interesting! In fact British libel laws are actually quite ridiculous.

This has been branched into a new thread in different section:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=20746

 

[the sceptic]

What is the record for most stage wins by the same nation in 1 tour? (except for France)

I think whatever it is it could get beaten this year.

Cav wins 8 stages

Sky win the TTT, Dawg or Wiggins win the ITTs

Dawg wins Ventoux and Alpe D'huez

Obviously Jimmyvickers is going to bump this post when they "only" win 10.

 

[thehog]

I wasnt there your right. But I stand by what I said. Sky have come out with what is basically an anti doping press release. They have nothing to hide and are trying to be transparent . Yes thats from sky but if it was complete rubbish then they wouldnt say it as it could easily be disputed and rubbished. With the sponsor they have they are not going to want to start messing around so I think I will take the logical route and go with what they have said.

I dont see the same releases from other teams, giving rider stats etc
So on that I believe they are doing the right thing and other teams should follow suit. If they are already doing it then release the statements.
Its clearly a good way to do things.

Stats? What stats?

Should Bradley Wiggins win the Tour de France year, a number of Australians will be lauded for their roles in his success - teammates Michael Rogers and Richie Porte and sports director Shane Sutton. But the Australian most likely to receive the biggest plaudit will be Tim Kerrison. The 40-year-old from Queensland, is a former rowing coach who missed out on the Australian Institute of Sport rowing head coaching job. He was not short of ability. The Toowong Rowing Club member coached the Australian men's lightweight quad scull crew to a gold medal in the 2002 Nations Cup regatta - the under 23 world titles. British Swimming then snapped him up, before he became the Sky team's performance analyst. As Rogers told http://www.ridemedia.com.au this week: “I've seen a five to seven per cent increase in my general threshold power. And that's great. It's also come from working with Tim Kerrison of Team Sky, as Bradley has – and as have most of the guys in the Tour team … we've all been training under his guidance and he's bringing some fresh thoughts into it for all of us. There's a bit of variation and a lot of the techniques have come from his background in swimming. And so far it's been working well.”

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...s-tour-team-20120620-20olz.html#ixzz2UYGDBNfR

 

[Matty_Tucks]

Yes, and how does that explain your prior comment that Britishness makes people less likely to dope?

Again that's a misrepresentation. Let me clarify (again). It is about an anti-doping culture. To have an anti-doping culture you don't have to be of a certain nationality, but a national federation can adopt an anti-doping culture - which is what I'm arguing Britain has done in cycling.

If you need further definitions of "culture", you can consult several dictionaries online, or on a thing called a bookshelf. I heard the OED was a good version, not sure if that's true though.

 

[the sceptic]

Again that's a misrepresentation. Let me clarify (again). It is about an anti-doping culture. To have an anti-doping culture you don't have to be of a certain nationality, but a national federation can adopt an anti-doping culture - which is what I'm arguing Britain has done in cycling.

If you need further definitions of "culture", you can consult several dictionaries online, or on a thing called a bookshelf. I heard the OED was a good version, not sure if that's true though.

Here is your anti doping culture.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Again that's a misrepresentation. Let me clarify (again). It is about an anti-doping culture. To have an anti-doping culture you don't have to be of a certain nationality, but a national federation can adopt an anti-doping culture - which is what I'm arguing Britain has done in cycling.

If you need further definitions of "culture", you can consult several dictionaries online, or on a thing called a bookshelf. I heard the OED was a good version, not sure if that's true though.

I am surprised someone claiming to be so close to BC would claim such a phenomenon, given the cultural diversity present within BC.

This would be a valid observation if the management - the guys in charge - and the athletes were brought up in and always subject to national federation oversight and accountability, but they're not.

Anyone working for BC, in any way autonomously, with experience from outside the federation, adds their own flavour to the culture.

Any athlete seeking help - of any sort - outside the national Federation introduces a further element of differentiation to the "national federation culture".

As an example, Garmin have a culture. It is vocally anti-doping. Wiggins rode for Garmin in 2009. But he was coached by Ellingworth, and trained in Manchester and Girona. BUT: JV said he essentially could not work with Wiggins, and they had no interaction. The final Garmin training camp pre-Tour 2009 has photos of Millar, Christian VDV and someone else - no Wiggins.

ie Wiggins was not integrated into the Garmin culture.

In training for the 2009 Tour, Wiggins - whilst at Manchester with Ellingworth - may have been party to the UK nat Fed culture. But in Girona, surrounded by all that clean, fresh Spanish air and Spanish pro cyclist culture, has nothing keeping him under the spell of UK nat fed culture. Nothing at all.

Go back to BC and the head of BC - Brailsford - the one setting the culture of the place, hires ex-dopers and Leinders as back office staff for team Sky, despite a ZTP. The key figure in their coaching staff - Kerrison - is only a relative newcomer to the BC "culture".

Even closer to BC home, Heiko and Shane Sutton are both non-British coaches bringing dregs of culture from AIS, Telekom, etc into the mix. If Brailsford doesn't know Leinders is a doping doc despite publicly available court documents saying as much, how the heck does he know what any of the other coaches he has hired have been up to? Or how they treat their athletes.

He doesn't. Neither do you.

Your utopian national federation "anti-doping" culture is a pipe dream.

 

[Benotti69]

Again that's a misrepresentation. Let me clarify (again). It is about an anti-doping culture. To have an anti-doping culture you don't have to be of a certain nationality, but a national federation can adopt an anti-doping culture - which is what I'm arguing Britain has done in cycling.

If you need further definitions of "culture", you can consult several dictionaries online, or on a thing called a bookshelf. I heard the OED was a good version, not sure if that's true though.

So Brits can beat all those doping nations? Find that very hard to believe.

 

[heart_attack_man]

I'm Australian, and therefore feel quite qualified to comment on Australian 'culture' (or lack thereof it may be argued...)

Having been born and grown up there, I would say that there is a very definitive 'fair play' attitude which is fostered at a very young level, but there is also certainly a massive desire to win. I participated in MANY different sports when I was growing up, some to a reasonable level. I certainly never saw anything that indicated in our sporting 'culture' anything that would be considered inappropriate from a doping perspective. I also believe that, particularly, our sporting 'culture' contributes to some extent our ability to 'punch above our weight' on a global sporting level. That is, I was literally participating in sports before I could walk. I had football boots and a football jersey before I could walk (used to crawl around at the local football field) and started participating in AFL at the ripe old age of 4. At the same time I was also into Ju-Jitsu, Roller skating and cricket.

With all that said though, I am certainly not naiive enough to think that Australians don't dope. That would be a ridiculous position to take. In fact, I would suggest that my favourite sporting team (AFL) which was very dominant in the early 2000's was almost certainly running around EPO'd off their heads. Saline drips at half time, oxygen tents etc... And more than anything the timing of it makes me LOL in retrospect. Early 2000's and they could run rings around their opposition in the 4th quarter....

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/brisbane-lions-players-on-drips-at-half-time.16464/

And while I was cheering Cadel at the time, does that mean I think he did it 'pan y agua'? A Ferrari link does not look good, no matter who you are. Yes, it's not proof of doping, but it's not a good thing in the slightest (says Captain Obvious). Cuddles still has a massive question mark over him to me (at my most generous and best). I would like to hope that he's clean, but that's all I have there. Hope. And a lot of doubt...

And that's where the entire SKY team sit for me. I hope they're clean. I doubt that they are. In fact, probably further than that - I don't care if they're clean as I don't support them. So therein is the problem. They don't even get the benefit of my 'hope'. I just doubt that they're clean.

So to pull out the 'culture' card is wrong. There may well be studies that indicate proclivities for using PED's, but the bottom line is that pretty much everywhere and anywhere uses them. Culture Schmulture as far as I'm concerned.

 

[thehog]

I'm Australian, and therefore feel quite qualified to comment on Australian 'culture' (or lack thereof it may be argued...)

Having been born and grown up there, I would say that there is a very definitive 'fair play' attitude which is fostered at a very young level, but there is also certainly a massive desire to win. I participated in MANY different sports when I was growing up, some to a reasonable level. I certainly never saw anything that indicated in our sporting 'culture' anything that would be considered inappropriate from a doping perspective. I also believe that, particularly, our sporting 'culture' contributes to some extent our ability to 'punch above our weight' on a global sporting level. That is, I was literally participating in sports before I could walk. I had football boots and a football jersey before I could walk (used to crawl around at the local football field) and started participating in AFL at the ripe old age of 4. At the same time I was also into Ju-Jitsu, Roller skating and cricket.

With all that said though, I am certainly not naiive enough to think that Australians don't dope. That would be a ridiculous position to take. In fact, I would suggest that my favourite sporting team (AFL) which was very dominant in the early 2000's was almost certainly running around EPO'd off their heads. Saline drips at half time, oxygen tents etc... And more than anything the timing of it makes me LOL in retrospect. Early 2000's and they could run rings around their opposition in the 4th quarter....

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/brisbane-lions-players-on-drips-at-half-time.16464/

And while I was cheering Cadel at the time, does that mean I think he did it 'pan y agua'? A Ferrari link does not look good, no matter who you are. Yes, it's not proof of doping, but it's not a good thing in the slightest (says Captain Obvious). Cuddles still has a massive question mark over him to me (at my most generous and best). I would like to hope that he's clean, but that's all I have there. Hope. And a lot of doubt...

And that's where the entire SKY team sit for me. I hope they're clean. I doubt that they are. In fact, probably further than that - I don't care if they're clean as I don't support them. So therein is the problem. They don't even get the benefit of my 'hope'. I just doubt that they're clean.

So to pull out the 'culture' card is wrong. There may well be studies that indicate proclivities for using PED's, but the bottom line is that pretty much everywhere and anywhere uses them. Culture Schmulture as far as I'm concerned.

Crikey!

The AIS was rife with gear!

and AFL/VFL.... ya kidding me?!!

 

[blackcat]

Again that's a misrepresentation. Let me clarify (again). It is about an anti-doping culture. To have an anti-doping culture you don't have to be of a certain nationality, but a national federation can adopt an anti-doping culture - which is what I'm arguing Britain has done in cycling.

If you need further definitions of "culture", you can consult several dictionaries online, or on a thing called a bookshelf. I heard the OED was a good version, not sure if that's true though.

you will find gullible under "g". it comes after "f" and before "h"

 

[heart_attack_man]

Crikey!

The AIS was rife with gear!

and AFL/VFL.... ya kidding me?!!

That was kinda my point. Culture Schmulture...

I know it's obvious with the recent information about AFL, but it was only after remembering how dominant the Lions were back in the day and also that all that Oxygen Tent/Saline drip stuff that was happening, it made me LOL in retrospect.

 

[thehog]

That was kinda my point. Culture Schmulture...

I know it's obvious with the recent information about AFL, but it was only after remembering how dominant the Lions were back in the day and also that all that Oxygen Tent/Saline drip stuff that was happening, it made me LOL in retrospect.

Matt Barber who used to be Dean Capobianco's coach who then went on to work with the WCE. He went the year when they became almost invincible and super, super strong.

He was the go to man at the AIS.

Anything and everything.

 

[Catwhoorg]

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,28850_8742920,00.html

Salvatore Puccio Giro training peaks files.


Would love to see Uran, but you get what the team decides to show.
The Stage 15 information may be useful to calibrate some climb estimates for the Galibier.