Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[martinvickers]

Maybe EBH isn't trustworthy because he's actually against doping. Crazy idea, huh?

But he's a new Mercx!! Surely a new mercs, even clean, shouldn't be crap!!

 

[Bexon30]

Regarding Porte you're probably right, top 5 unless he has a bad day. Thomas finishing near the top 10 would be a shock but given what Sky can do with riders it wouldn't be a 'shock' anymore.

True how shocked would we be if he stayed within the top 5/10 on the mountain stages?, finishing with Valverde or Nairo. Personally I think we are likely to see another star emerge. Apart from what little I've seen from Kennaugh what chance does he have of stepping up?, when he was spoken highly of before.

 

[martinvickers]

He is working for 5 weeks, hardly employment.

He ain't doing it for charity! It may not be permenant employemnt, but it's certainly employment

 

[ToreBear]

Poor EBH you could watch him wanting to hide under the table
Why haven't you performed better?!
Gulp.

I think Kennaugh probably reacted to the line of questioning in the presser. He is probably not that used to press conferences, and it sounded to me like Kimmo was trying to compare Froomes path to Glory to EBH.

I think that's too simplistic.

I think EBH has improved steadily. I think normal development is a lot more diverse than people are aware of. It's just with all the doping, it's really hard to know what was natural development and what was not. Professional cycling has not really been a good guide to discovering normal.

My understanding is that it is perfectly normal to stagnate a few years, and then something clicks and you are improving hugely again(I'm not thinking just cycling here).

If that happens, people might scream doping, but that IMHO is part of what is normal development even though it migh also indicate doping.

And with EBH now having become older, that could happen, or it might not.

Anyway I am looking forward to reading the sky thread in 2014 when EBH makes the podium in the tour with Kimmage telling everyone, I told you so.

 

[martinvickers]

What? What?
If you have a coherent point or query, could you make it please.

As for Porte, he is not the Tour leader, but he is the leaders main Dom. It would make perfect sense to have him on the same program.
(And I am not suggesting that link - but since you are attempting to confuse a simple process, I will continue to correct it)

Why not use this superdope to make Thomas the main dom. Or Kennaugh. why choose an Aussie, if you are simply promoting british donkey's with dope?

 

[BYOP88]

True how shocked would we be if he stayed within the top 5/10 on the mountain stages?, finishing with Valverde or Nairo. Personally I think we are likely to see another star emerge. Apart from what little I've seen from Kennaugh what chance does he have of stepping up?, when he was spoken highly of before.

I believe Kennaugh was one of the riders they had in mind, when the dream was 'to win the tour (with)in 5 years with a British rider'.

 

[Benotti69]

He ain't doing it for charity! It may not be permenant employemnt, but it's certainly employment

Getting 5 weeks work for the 100th edition of the TdF is hardly something to go whistling to the bank with.

 

[kingjr]

Maybe, but i was pointing out that 1 day races were/are just as dirty as GT's.

I'm nevertheless wondering whether it could have been easier to win a 1-day-race clean than a Grand Tour.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Just out of interest are we likely to see another Sky man break the top 10 or even better with a sudden form spike this time round?

Sky has revolutionized sudden performance spikes, altitude training, and weight loss. Performance spikes last months now.

It's all "pan y agua" for Sky. For sure. Because there's no proof of doping....

 

[del1962]

Why not use this superdope to make Thomas the main dom. Or Kennaugh. why choose an Aussie, if you are simply promoting british donkey's with dope?

Or JTL ....

 

[kingjr]

Or JTL ....

Yeah what has happened to JTL? He was dodgy last year but he wasn't with Sky back then.

 

[The Hitch]

Why not use this superdope to make Thomas the main dom. Or Kennaugh. why choose an Aussie, if you are simply promoting british donkey's with dope?

Considering Geraint Thomas leapt to the defense of Armstrong USADA announced they were going after him, saying that they should just leave him alone, I am sceptical of any theories that he is being left off doping.

Porte may very well be a good climber, people just doubt that someone who was getting thrashed in the mountains under 2010 Riis could become so good under Sky that even Sean Kelly starts asking if the clocks aren't wrong when he does a mountain tt.

Besides G Thomas couldnt dom the tdf last year because he was busy winning an olympic gold medal. Well see this year if he has "climbing skills" too.

 

[Bexon30]

Sky has revolutionized sudden performance spikes, altitude training, and weight loss. Performance spikes last months now.

It's all "pan y agua" for Sky. For sure. Because there's no proof of doping....

Too much advancement will lead lead to internal fighting. Can't have too many chiefs..... Must be all that gluten free bread and ph neutral mountain spring juice.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Yeah what has happened to JTL? He was dodgy last year but he wasn't with Sky back then.

On a private program last year. Needs to be adopted. Careful process.

 

[Escarabajo]

...
My understanding is that it is perfectly normal to stagnate a few years, and then something clicks and you are improving hugely again(I'm not thinking just cycling here).

...

And with EBH now having become older, that could happen, or it might not.

...

I don't believe it works like that. Today it seems to work that way and now it is harder to see what is doping and what is not. But in a natural world you would see the actual talent from a mile away.

 

[pmcg76]

I don't believe it works like that. Today it seems to work that way and now it is harder to see what is doping and what is not. But in a natural world you would see the actual talent from a mile away.

Agreed, I think back to the pre-EPO era and try to find similar examples but boy are they hard to find. The closest I can think of are Sean Kelly, Gert-Jan Theunisse, maybe Zimmermann and....there are quite a few riders who had up and down career's or odd year's but very few who just morphed into a top rider having shown little beforehand.

Maybe there are better coaches around now who can develop hidden talent but that seem's slightly unrealistic. When looking at the current generation development, I don't compare them to the 90s rider's, I tend to look back further because EPO ****ed everything.

 

[ToreBear]

I don't believe it works like that. Today it seems to work that way and now it is harder to see what is doping and what is not. But in a natural world you would see the actual talent from a mile away.

I disagree. There are many factors involved. If you entertain for a moment that Froome is clean, how come so few spotted him?

It doesn't sound easy to me.

This is an interesting topic, but my mind is falling asleep.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

And there was me thinking a journo's job was to report the truth, when all along it was to get under people's skin.
He didn't make the money he deserved with Armstrong, so he's giving it another shot with anyone else he can
A mans gotta eat, sorry, expose the truth.

Kimmage just asked a simple question (and has reported the truth)- which he is employed to do, the fact it got under peoples skin is not his fault and very telling on those who are upset.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Em, yes they did. I was reading an article via google translate within minutes of the Kennagh tweet.

The people I read and asked had no idea what Kimmage had said, none. They reacted solely to Kennaughs tweet.
How many minutes did it take for you to see it?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Why not use this superdope to make Thomas the main dom. Or Kennaugh. why choose an Aussie, if you are simply promoting british donkey's with dope?

Superdope? What Superdope - oh, your making up a strawman.
But since you ask - Thomas and Kennaugh are both talented, but neither is a pure GT rider nor a superdom. Porte certainly is and could even be a GT leader on a different team.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I don't believe it works like that. Today it seems to work that way and now it is harder to see what is doping and what is not. But in a natural world you would see the actual talent from a mile away.

In a natural world success is even more unpredictable. There is no standard, no control, no formula, no matter how much people want there to be, so anyone outside of it can be proclaimed mutant.

And I'm not talking climbing speeds btw.

But then if you know exactly what works in a natural world pray do tell. We can compare and contrast.

 

[Netserk]

Please anyone. Show me one great rider from before 1990 who had a similar progression as Froome. Just one.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Please anyone. Show me one great rider from before 1990 who had a similar progression as Froome. Just one.

If Google breaks down, I am blaming you.

 

[The Hitch]

Please anyone. Show me one great rider from before 1990 who had a similar progression as Froome. Just one.

Riis, Armstrong, Kohl, Wiggins

 

[Darryl Webster]

I don't believe it works like that. Today it seems to work that way and now it is harder to see what is doping and what is not. But in a natural world you would see the actual talent from a mile away.

Like the young fella 2nd left here?