Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[hrotha]

When Sky had only Kennaugh, Porte and Froome on the front group, the Spanish commentators, who almost never talk about doping unless it's in the news, and then almost invariably to defend the innocence of the high-profile dopers, said having only 3 guys up there was more norml than last year, which was "almost" too unbelievable. When Porte and Froome went, they didn't question what they were seeing at all.

I'm not seeing anything in the online editions of the major newspapers.

 

[buckle]

Hatred

I wouldn't underestimate the anglo-saxon capacity to hate all things non anglo-saxon of whose World France has traditionally been the point man. The British public see no difference in winning the tour or just simply wrecking a race which they regard as an unpleasantly French institution. Either way they are putting one over the "opposition".

 

[Cinelli64]

I am not a fan of Froome. However this comment by The Science of Sport @facebook is nice and objective

Hi.
Three quick thoughts on ‎#Froome's performance in the ‎#TDF today:

1. It was fast, very fast. The 23:14 ascent of Ax-3-Domaines puts Froome in third on the all-time list for the climb, behind only Laiseka and Armstrong in 2001. The VAM of 1715 m/h converts to a power output of 6.3 W/kg (Ferrari method) and about 6.5 W/kg with other models (CPL, rst). Very fast.

2. Before today's performance is instantly condemned as proof of nefarious pharmacology in the sport, keep in mind what I've tried to emphasize many times over the last few years, which is the context of the climb and variability around performance. For example, this climb was done in Stage 12, 13 and 14 of the 2001, 2003 and 2005 Tours, respectively. The earlier placement in week 1 as the first climb of the Tour may affect performance. Also, variability in conditions (particularly wind and heat) make it impossible to make 'guilt by performance' proclamations. Let's wait to analyze the entire Tour, the collection of climbs, and then compare to history's known dopers. The problem when you get too close in is a kind of "performance pixelation", so step back and see the whole screen. That will happen in time.

3. Having said that, what was noteworthy today were the enormous gaps created on the final climb. That's because with the exception of Froome and perhaps Porte, the rest of the peloton performed in a manner that is typical of cycling over the last few years. Their performances were consistent with post-biological passport levels, and matched or even fell short of the prediction models. It was only Froome and Sky who exceeded them. Therefore, skepticism is normal, and failing to appreciate that will come only from extreme naivety or patriotism. History has taught us the value of some healthy cynicism, and if this level continues for three weeks, it makes for an uncomfortable Tour, of that there is no doubt.

Either it is one exceptional individual, or...well, we know the rest, we have seen this movie too often in the sport.

But, this is something only time will tell, as it always does.

Ross

 

[leon7766]

When Sky had only Kennaugh, Porte and Froome on the front group, the Spanish commentators, who almost never talk about doping unless it's in the news, and then almost invariably to defend the innocence of the high-profile dopers, said having only 3 guys up there was more norml than last year, which was "almost" too unbelievable. When Porte and Froome went, they didn't question what they were seeing at all.

I'm not seeing anything in the online editions of the major newspapers.

Im seeing lots of stuff about how good they are and its well deserved .I support Sky

 

[thehog]

Im seeing lots of stuff about how good they are and its well deserved .I support Sky

I agree.

“They ripped our eyes out,” Contador told Spanish journalists at the line.

....

 

[Cycle Chic]

Speaking Out

L'Equipe:-

"They killed the Tour"

It was able to press 3 minute lead at the top of the neck Pailhères, not the foot. [size=+0]Result, the differences are considerable. [/size][size=+0]The rarely seen. [/size][size=+0]Or during the years that we do not like. [/size][size=+0]This is a little embarrassing ... Such disparity levels scary.[/size]

from Stephane Heulot at SOJASUN

http://www.sport24.com/cyclisme/tour-de-france/actualites/ils-ont-tue-le-tour-641058

 

[The Chicken]

Sunday Times today... that is the last David Walsh piece I'll be reading. Pathetic.

This team is an embarrassment.

 

[Galic Ho]

Haha. Heard that. I actually thought they're really scrapping the bottom of the barrel for recovery stories now.

Armstrong. Nut Cancer.

Contador. Brain Injury.

Wiggins. Terrible Haircut.

Froome. Bilharzia.

Quintana. Cured of the sniffles by a witch doctor's potion of strawberries and mint leaves? (Not sure on the details)

I believe it was a concoction of 9 secret ingredients.

Sound like the Aztec version of the Colonels secret herbs and spices recipe to me. Biggest load of crock I have heard all year. Bleeding from the eyes and ears, some curse on his mother, maybe some shaman secret sauce and whalla! The new Luis Herrera!

I have no doubt now Froome is in yellow Paul will delight in explaining the joys of Froome's life and his troubled upbringing and how over coming bilharzia has made him into the best bike rider in the world! Something for the truly lost to look forward to!

I actually never thought there would come a time when I'd be appreciating sprint stages more than mountain stages. Yesterday's stage did it for me.

 

[UlleGigo]

I believe it was a concoction of 9 secret ingredients.

Sound like the Aztec version of the Colonels secret herbs and spices recipe to me. Biggest load of crock I have heard all year. Bleeding from the eyes and ears, some curse on his mother, maybe some shaman secret sauce and whalla! The new Luis Herrera!

I have no doubt now Froome is in yellow Paul will delight in explaining the joys of Froome's life and his troubled upbringing and how over coming bilharzia has made him into the best bike rider in the world! Something for the truly lost to look forward to!

I actually never thought there would come a time when I'd be appreciating sprint stages more than mountain stages. Yesterday's stage did it for me.

Haha. Yeah that was it. Some bad juju passed down through the mother. Paul actually reported it as though he himself believed it. I wonder if the Shaman foresaw trouble on Alpe d'Huez for Quintana in the shape of a man with more elbows than a spider who looks as though he should be flat out wheeling a Tescos trolley up a driveway.

 

[Galic Ho]

I only skimmed over Rupert's piece. He's Tommo in a colourful shirt for me I don't really care what he has to say. But yeah you're right. Apparently Porte's numbers were incredible up Col de la Madone. It's all nonsense pre-emptive damage control from Sky. Something for Skybots to point to after the fact. Haven't seen the trolls bring up Ten Dam yet. But it will happen. Same sort of thing.

I briefly watched the SBS after show. Was like you trying to get on the melted down forum at the same time.

Tommo was unimpressed, mainly because Evans got dropped for 4 minutes. He was criticising BMC for having a weak team as if that would have helped. So nothing of substance there. He talked about Porte getting 2nd as though it were fait accompli or that Porte might even win if something happened to Froome. Not with much enthusiasm mind you. Hard to get excited about such an obvious fraud I guess. Should take his lead from Phil or Paul or the next man in the ring.

Tan was carrying on talking slowly as always as if he were the sage orator he imagines himself to be. Praising Sky and Porte and everything. He's an idiot. He was up Armstrong's **** in '09. Now is no different. The guy is as thick as two bricks.

Don't know if I can be bothered tonight. I'll watch the highlights tomorrow. Not going sleep deprived for this ****.

Same sentiment. I am not going to go without sleep for another two weeks for this.

Tomo not a happy chappy then? That is odd. And for everyone wondering on that graph of Sky's progression for riders from 2010 (if this is indeed the correct thread as there have been so many postings today). The SG and the MR that are ABOVE Bradley Wiggins, were indeed Simon Gerrans and Michael Rogers. Just in case some more July warriors were wondering.

So the Tan Man showed! He is the thickest mofo this side of Bourke. So dumb it isn't funny. He really latched onto the LA gravy train and ran with it. Tomo...he went hiding. I didn't bother to check up on him. Couldn't really care. Guinness though is a different story. He actually seemed cut up that he'd helped perpetuate the LA myth by not having a backbone when it counted. Told a story about how he it was made clear how to play ball. Tried to act contrite about it last year.

Now? Back to the same old routine. Just another lackey who will sell the dream to average person. Everyone I know who doesn't follow cycling who is smart...they all think cyclists dope. This was before USADA dealt with LA too. A lot if they actually watched this Tour and had perspective...well, only the really stupid are being fooled this time.

I'd like to hear Dave McKenzie's version off camera. Same with that guy with Tomo. I doubt they'd be saying anything positive about Porte at all.

As for Evans and BMC. Tomo is simply clueless. Not picking on Greeks here, but he is really really thick. BMC aren't crap. They busted their rear ends off and TJVG lost over 12 minutes and came 5th last year! Tomo just can't put it all together. He's been buying the lies and repeating what he heard from Phi and Paul so much it has gotten to beyond a joke.

Then again non of this surprises me. Cyclingcentral use to and probably still censor anything doping related. They use to do it all the time with LA comments. Even the ones USADA proved were right. A lot of journalists are like little children chucking a tantrum, fingers in ears, eyes closed, screaming their lungs out. Clueless, deaf and blind. Worse...they're proving a second time around how daft they are.

 

[thehog]

I believe it was a concoction of 9 secret ingredients.

Sound like the Aztec version of the Colonels secret herbs and spices recipe to me. Biggest load of crock I have heard all year. Bleeding from the eyes and ears, some curse on his mother, maybe some shaman secret sauce and whalla! The new Luis Herrera!

I have no doubt now Froome is in yellow Paul will delight in explaining the joys of Froome's life and his troubled upbringing and how over coming bilharzia has made him into the best bike rider in the world! Something for the truly lost to look forward to!

I actually never thought there would come a time when I'd be appreciating sprint stages more than mountain stages. Yesterday's stage did it for me.

I'm now more interested in the immediate sprints

I turn off after that point.

Fascinating battle for the mid stage sprint points.

 

[hrotha]

Sunday Times today... that is the last David Walsh piece I'll be reading. Pathetic.

This team is an embarrassment.

Could we get a summary?

 

[maltiv]

I think the biggest loser in this whole thing is EBH.
Too bad that he has no talent at all to benefit from marginal gains

On the exact same training program, marginal gains etc he hasn't improved one bit, while Froome has gone from EBH's worst domestique to the best climber ever

 

[Galic Ho]

What is this nonsense?

Am I meant to be deciphering some sort of hidden message into the use of the name Quintana other than Porte riding away from a rider named Quintana because a rider named Quintana had just made the sole break on the previous mountain and was out of energy ??

Oh and btw - I am embarrassed to find out that you are a Liberal supporter

ACF94's comment stands. You might actually be an SBS employee or a friend of one of the reporters.

How on God's green earth do you NOT KNOW who Luis Herrera is? Google him. He was the BEST climber in the pre-epo 80s peloton. From Columbia! Sherwen mentioned ALL of this last night. Yes Sherwen of all people and yes, if you saw Quintana's solo effort then you HEARD IT!

If you knew anything about doping in cycling, you'd know pre epo the best climbers were tiny thin men in the 50 kilo weight range who came from Columbia! Why? Because of the elevation and hard roads and climbs they ate for breakfast! Only the best riders, the most talented (Fignon, Lemond, Hinault) could stand up to them and even then, Herrera still climbed Alpe d'Huez a bit faster than these guys did. A good three quarters of a minute.

You'd also know how all these types of riders faired when EPO hit the Tour in 1991. Then again you clearly don't and I should be ashamed! No sunshine, you're the one with the shame. But a thing called ignorance is hiding your shame from you. Wake up. Oh and if you still haven't joined the dots...Quintana is Columbian, 55kg, lived at 3000m elevation and is considered naturally to be a climbing heir the likes of Herrera.

Wanna tell us all how he went last night compared to that mighty Kenyan Chris Froome and his mate from Tassie, the tree hugging cousin loving Richie Porte?

 

[The Chicken]

Could we get a summary?

He just recounts the stage, gives a big pat on the back to Sky esp. Kennaugh, then tells us this is all Froome's 'destiny'.

There is absolutely nothing on the outrage & dismay that the rest of the world is feeling after witnessing that freak show.

 

[Galic Ho]

I'm now more interested in the immediate sprints

I turn off after that point.

Fascinating battle for the mid stage sprint points.

It was indeed. But will Sky now let everyone else work considering they have yellow?

If I was the DS of Movistar, Garmin, BMC, Saxo, Radioshack, Katusha, Lotto, OPQS or Cannondale I would give explicit orders to only go into breakaways. Do not offer ANY assistance to Sky.

Make them pull the entire peloton to Paris. Nobody can beat that. Nobody. So guilt the ASO and UCI into pulling Sky. Busting them. Anything to force Sky to go even more *** so that EVERYONE knows is what I think needs to be the directive.

Why help? It's just wasting time. Send your guys into breakaways and REFUSE to pull. So what if Sky get angry? So what if they take it out by winning EVERY stage. Just makes the ridiculous even more obvious IMO!

 

[Galic Ho]

Post of the day, it's commentary like this that keeps my interest in this forum

Thanks but I believe that privilege goes to BroDeal's alien invasion pic. That was an inspired post.

I haven't even dared to look at the Road racing threads. It's taken me hours to get through all of the Clinic. Hopefully the server doesn't crash again or Sky or whoever took it down stay away!

 

[thehog]

It was indeed. But will Sky now let everyone else work considering they have yellow?

If I was the DS of Movistar, Garmin, BMC, Saxo, Radioshack, Katusha, Lotto, OPQS or Cannondale I would give explicit orders to only go into breakaways. Do not offer ANY assistance to Sky.

Make them pull the entire peloton to Paris. Nobody can beat that. Nobody. So guilt the ASO and UCI into pulling Sky. Busting them. Anything to force Sky to go even more *** so that EVERYONE knows is what I think needs to be the directive.

Why help? It's just wasting time. Send your guys into breakaways and REFUSE to pull. So what if Sky get angry? So what if they take it out by winning EVERY stage. Just makes the ridiculous even more obvious IMO!

If I was the other teams I'd stage a go slow protest. Just ride at 20km p/h. Let Sky ride away and win every stage. Let them fill the top 8 positions in every category. They will show ASO!

 

[Benotti69]

Could we get a summary?

Ask him via twitter

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST

Plenty of questions, of course. About the race, first mountain stage. Tomorrow from 10.30 UK time, I'm around to discuss them. Feel free

anyone on Twitter want to fire some hard ones at Sky's latest PR spokesman, now is your chance.....

 

[BroDeal]

It is pretty sad when your only hope is McQuaid actually doing his job. Not that it will ever happen with his son busy tweeting greetings to our new alien overlords.

 

[hrotha]

Ask him via twitter



anyone on Twitter want to fire some hard ones at Sky's latest PR spokesman, now is your chance.....

I just gave it a go, but he's never ever replied to me before. Maybe he only likes the hard-hitting questions when he's on the comfortable end of them.

 

[Benotti69]

I just gave it a go, but he's never ever replied to me before. Maybe he only likes the hard-hitting questions when he's on the comfortable end of them.

Oh i dont believe Walsh will answer any hard questions. he is back being Sky's personal ticker at the moment.

For whatever reason, Walsh is back to being a fan with a laptop, just like he admits he was when writing about Kelly and Roche 25 years ago.

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST

There were many people who cheered Chris Froome at the start in Saint Girons this morning, some who booed.

Good to see fans giving voice to not wanting doping.

 

[UlleGigo]

Same sentiment. I am not going to go without sleep for another two weeks for this.

Tomo not a happy chappy then? That is odd. And for everyone wondering on that graph of Sky's progression for riders from 2010 (if this is indeed the correct thread as there have been so many postings today). The SG and the MR that are ABOVE Bradley Wiggins, were indeed Simon Gerrans and Michael Rogers. Just in case some more July warriors were wondering.

So the Tan Man showed! He is the thickest mofo this side of Bourke. So dumb it isn't funny. He really latched onto the LA gravy train and ran with it. Tomo...he went hiding. I didn't bother to check up on him. Couldn't really care. Guinness though is a different story. He actually seemed cut up that he'd helped perpetuate the LA myth by not having a backbone when it counted. Told a story about how he it was made clear how to play ball. Tried to act contrite about it last year.

Now? Back to the same old routine. Just another lackey who will sell the dream to average person. Everyone I know who doesn't follow cycling who is smart...they all think cyclists dope. This was before USADA dealt with LA too. A lot if they actually watched this Tour and had perspective...well, only the really stupid are being fooled this time.

I'd like to hear Dave McKenzie's version off camera. Same with that guy with Tomo. I doubt they'd be saying anything positive about Porte at all.

As for Evans and BMC. Tomo is simply clueless. Not picking on Greeks here, but he is really really thick. BMC aren't crap. They busted their rear ends off and TJVG lost over 12 minutes and came 5th last year! Tomo just can't put it all together. He's been buying the lies and repeating what he heard from Phi and Paul so much it has gotten to beyond a joke.

Then again non of this surprises me. Cyclingcentral use to and probably still censor anything doping related. They use to do it all the time with LA comments. Even the ones USADA proved were right. A lot of journalists are like little children chucking a tantrum, fingers in ears, eyes closed, screaming their lungs out. Clueless, deaf and blind. Worse...they're proving a second time around how daft they are.

Yeah. I only think Tommo was in a tiz because he loves Evans so much and doesn't understand how he got dropped like a stone.

I'd love to have a chat with McKenzie or Henk Vogels or any of the ex-cycling guys around the traps at SBS. Would be really interesting to see their take on things when the microphones and the cameras are turned off. The journalists, like you say, not so much. Which is a shame because a good journalist is worth so much to the sport. They're all **** scared of being black balled I think. Except Tanny. He's earnest. He'd believe anything that guy.

 

[Holtend]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/blazin-saddles/people-not-just-accept-sky-better-070313961.html

Makes sense to me.

 

[Galic Ho]

If I was the other teams I'd stage a go slow protest. Just ride at 20km p/h. Let Sky ride away and win every stage. Let them fill the top 8 positions in every category. They will show ASO!

That is a good point. Race rules are if more than 30% (or is it 25%) fall outside the cut off time, which from memory is about 7%, then you cannot boot them.

If I was the other GC riders, ****** it, I'd leave. Vuelta. Sure Nibali is probably going to win that and podium at the Worlds, but if you leave now you can at least salvage a potential Vuelta podium.

Sky literally crushed everyone except Valverde. He's the only one who didn't seem to truly buckle. Admittedly he wasn't on Froome's pace nor Porte's but he is top picking for third ATM IMO. BMC should pull their entire GC line. I know it'd suck for the riders who helped Cadel and Tejay, but what is the best hey can hope for? KOM? A stage win maybe from Gilbert or Tejay?

Look at what happened to Voeckler. He tried on the second climb to get to Riblon and Quintana. He wasn't faking the pain. Kirienka was murdering them on that climb (Palhearas or whatever it's name was). The thing that made it seem like Sky weren't was Impey staying for so long and Quintana pulling a minute. Riblon's defense also made it seem like it was an okay tempo. Ax3 aftermath shows how wrong that was. Evans said they'd almost cracked him before Ax3!

I don't even think Nibali on the Ferrari special with a full Astana force could beat Sky. Maybe match Porte, but Froome? Not a chance. What can half these guys do? Late attacks are pointless. The wattage Sky sets is too high to go. Rogers has probably been telling Saxo that all today. Tour over!

Those who can should quit and go to the Vuelta. GC race is over. Stage hunting is the only option now besides KOM and the sprint jersey.