Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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elduggo

Oct 25, 2012
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JimmyFingers said:
Except they're not 'so much' better than everyone else, really.
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have to say I agree with this. If you exclude their very small 'inner circle' (3, maybe 4 riders), they are very average.

And they have this awful knack of turning good riders into bad riders.

I hope Philly Deignan knows what hes getting himself in for.
 
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weeniebeenie

Jan 3, 2013
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Just a question.

In some threads people have suggested that Sky / British Cycling are protected by the UCI (i.e. McQuaid) from getting positives. However, McQuaid is currently in a battle with Cookson (Head of British Cycling) for control of the UCI.

Surely it would be in McQuaid's interest for Sky / British Cycling to get a few positives?
 
Papa Kel

Papa Kel

Mar 26, 2013
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I truly think that if Sky really wanted to win at least another GT apart from the tour then they could... and comfortably. That to me shows they are dominant to a certain degree. It seems at times when it comes to stage races they can just rock up and win at will. Fair enough it might just be a select few (Froome, Porte, Wiggins and possibly Uran if they did want to support him). It's not based on records, or facts, but it's just the feeling I get when watching Sky. And I truly think they try to be careful about not taking their dominance to an unbelievable level just because it would make them a lot more suspicious than they already are.
 
the sceptic

the sceptic

Jul 21, 2012
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elduggo said:
have to say I agree with this. If you exclude their very small 'inner circle' (3, maybe 4 riders), they are very average.

And they have this awful knack of turning good riders into bad riders.

I hope Philly Deignan knows what hes getting himself in for.
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Most teams are average if you exclude their best riders
 
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elduggo

Oct 25, 2012
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the sceptic said:
Most teams are average if you exclude their best riders
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most teams seem to muster at least a couple of above average riders than those who lined out for them in the Tour de France.

feel free to twist the above to suit whatever argument it is you are trying to make.
 
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Parker

Mar 4, 2011
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elduggo said:
most teams seem to muster at least a couple of above average riders than those who lined out for them in the Tour de France.

feel free to twist the above to suit whatever argument it is you are trying to make.
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How many of those teams can muster two as good as Henao (14th in World Rankings) and Uran (27th)?
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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Sky (number 1 in the team ranking) has number 1, 7, 14, 27 and 35 on the world tour.

Movistar (number 2 in the team ranking) has number 4, 6, 13, 45 and 46 on the world tour.

Katusha (number 3 in the team ranking) has number 3, 17, 21, 22 and 58 on the world tour.
 
Don't be late Pedro

Don't be late Pedro

Aug 13, 2010
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King Boonen said:
Depends on the type of average but if you want to be pedantic about it it's unlikely there is more than one team who is average (median) and it's more likely that no team is average (mean).
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You are referring to the Mathematical explanation. I am not. I am referring to its meaning as 'the usual' or 'ordinary' might be a better word and I suspect most other people are as well.

We can talk about the former but then we would first need to quantify what we are measuring.
 
the sceptic

the sceptic

Jul 21, 2012
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Don't be late Pedro said:
You are referring to the Mathematical explanation. I am not. I am referring to its meaning as 'the usual' and I suspect most other people are as well.

We can talk about the former but then we would first need to quantify what we are measuring.
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Im just a pseudo scientist but im eagerly looking forward to 10 pages of discussing semantics
 
King Boonen

King Boonen

Jul 25, 2012
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Don't be late Pedro said:
You are referring to the Mathematical explanation. I am not. I am referring to its meaning as 'the usual' or 'ordinary' might be a better word and I suspect most other people are as well.

We can talk about the former but then we would first need to quantify what we are measuring.
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As I said, I was being pedantic, but only because I felt your post was being pedantic too.

Lets not discuss. Partly because it's massively off topic and open to massive misinterpretation and attempts at on-up-manship by over-interpreting everything someone posts (I know most people seem to think this is the point of the clinic...) but mainly let's not do it to disappoint the sceptic :D
 
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elduggo

Oct 25, 2012
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Parker said:
How many of those teams can muster two as good as Henao (14th in World Rankings) and Uran (27th)?
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they rate Uran so highly they put up a hell of a battle to stop him leaving

right?
 
red_flanders

red_flanders

Apr 3, 2009
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del1962 said:
That makes no sense are you saying they did not target any of the classics, or T-A, Catalunya, the Giro, Pais Vasco
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They have a classics team like USPS had a classics team. No, actually worse.

When you talk about a team targeting a race, you are talking about them sending their A team with intent to win.

How is anyone actually having a conversation about Sky being average? It's preposterous.
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
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weeniebeenie said:
Surely it would be in McQuaid's interest for Sky / British Cycling to get a few positives?
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Lots more reasons why not.

Remember that the sports federation is the only one with the authority to open cases. That's a nice opportunity to get paid to not enforce the positive.

There's a long, long line of dopers who beat the system. We know many of Armstrong's tests came back suspicious, but never positive. Which should be a clue that the bio-passport is an IQ test, not really a strict anti-doping program.

The UCI seems to have a popularity list anyway. Some riders they pursue all over the globe trying to sanction them, keep them off World Tour teams, others like Contador and Armstrong, they'd rather suppress the positive. There's no logical explanation for the behaviour. Which only fuels the doping anyway.
 
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JimmyFingers

Jul 17, 2012
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They went full on for the classics but lacked a dominant rider to challenge Sagan and Cancellara. Saying they didn't target them is a misrepresentation of fact. They made a right song and dance about it.

Not sure where this discussion has been going as haven't read the l;ast few pages, but I imagine it's from me saying they looked human this season. As in they haven't looked superhuman, or alien, or mutant, Froome aside. Not ordinary or mediocre, indeed very good, but just not this 'amost winning every stage race' one poster stated. Overstating their dominance is fun, but wide of target. I realise that doesn't suit the narrative of rampant, team-wide doping but hey ho, them's the breaks.
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
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red_flanders said:
They have a classics team like USPS had a classics team. No, actually worse.
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Imagine showing up to any one-day event with Froome-like powers. Get to the second-to-last hill and just ride everyone but Porte off your wheel. Meanwhile Porte's going back-and-forth to the car behind the main peloton and back up to your team leader with power to spare.

Whatever the grand tour squad uses never got to the classics riders.
 
the sceptic

the sceptic

Jul 21, 2012
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JimmyFingers said:
They went full on for the classics but lacked a dominant rider to challenge Sagan and Cancellara. Saying they didn't target them is a misrepresentation of fact. They made a right song and dance about it.

Not sure where this discussion has been going as haven't read the l;ast few pages, but I imagine it's from me saying they looked human this season. As in they haven't looked superhuman, or alien, or mutant, Froome aside. Not ordinary or mediocre, indeed very good, but just not this 'amost winning every stage race' one poster stated. Overstating their dominance is fun, but wide of target. I realise that doesn't suit the narrative of rampant, team-wide doping but hey ho, them's the breaks.
Click to expand...

07-minister.jpg
 
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