Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[JimmyFingers]

That depends on one's definition of "develop"

If we're talking 'transformation' then I can't see Brailsford taking credit for that if it turns out to be nefarious.

 

[Benotti69]

But, using the above examples, wouldn't JTL's BP irregularities suggest that Sky are clean - JTL's blood has changed in values over the course of the year. Last year he won things; this year he didn't. That wouldn't point towards JTL having started to dope this year under a Sky programme.

Nope, It might point to JLT's body not responding to the get skinny, keep power recover quickly marginal gains and that what 'gains' he did to win in early 2012 worked but Sky are using different 'gains' that failed with JTL.

It also points to similar riders going backwards with Sky's methods.

 

[Benotti69]

I've heard that Sky were only interested in signing Simon anyway, but you'd hope someone their age getting their first contract with a World Tour team would be willing to pay their dues. It will be interesting to see how OGE deploy them.

Good move though: statements like that will get them much more leniency from the internet finger-pointers, as evidenced by your post.

Willing to pay their dues? I guess Yates Bros took a long look at how Sky perform as a team and realsied they have 2 riders who will be getting full support, Froome and Porte then the rest is practically zero.


I wonder did the debacle of the Worlds prove to them that Sky/BC is not a 'healthy' environment to learn the pro trade.

Brit riders quitting a race due to rain is pretty pathetic.

 

[sniper]

Nope, It might point to JLT's body not responding to the get skinny, keep power recover quickly marginal gains and that what 'gains' he did to win in early 2012 worked but Sky are using different 'gains' that failed with JTL.

It also points to similar riders going backwards with Sky's methods.

you're quite explicitly suggesting here that sky run a team program.
is that what you think?
to be sure, i do too, but several posters seem to think each rider has his own provider, with sky docs just making sure the riders pass the IQ test.

 

[the sceptic]

Me too!

well you need someone new now that Contador is almost finished

 

[Benotti69]

you're quite explicitly suggesting here that sky run a team program.
is that what you think?
to be sure, i do too, but several posters seem to think each rider has his own provider, with sky docs just making sure the riders pass the IQ test.

Yep. I sure do. BCs track team destroys all the doping nations. Their road team, Sky, destroys all the doping teams at the TdF.

I think they tone it down outside of the TdF or for their prep races for the TdF, but i think they had help from Uncle Pat and ASO for July.

Brailsford appears to have been 'smart' not to get greedy and take all the big races and share the GTs and not contest monuments.

This sport has not cleaned up, it has been knocked to one side, which guys like JV have sold as cleanER.

I have no evidence for this except the history of the sport has shown that it is completely corrupt top to bottom. That anti doping is controlled by the UCI, who have shown themselves to run the sport in a mafiosa style. The doping doctors never went away, the pharmacists still deal the dope, the soigneurs still get caught with dope, the same doping DS are running teams. I have not seen much change except that the team who shouted loudest about being clean won the TdF last 2 times and the team that shouted 2nd loudest about being clean won a Giro.

To unravel pro cycling and all its dirty deals might take many many T&Rs.

 

[oldcrank]

Actually the team that won the last two TdF's is not the
team that shouts the loudest, nor did they join the
organisation of teams that shout the loudest.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Willing to pay their dues? I guess Yates Bros took a long look at how Sky perform as a team and realsied they have 2 riders who will be getting full support, Froome and Porte then the rest is practically zero.


I wonder did the debacle of the Worlds prove to them that Sky/BC is not a 'healthy' environment to learn the pro trade.

Brit riders quitting a race due to rain is pretty pathetic.

Yeah because Brit riders were the only ones quitting. I seriously doubt the worlds had anything at all to do with their decision, as I am sure they if they are invited to ride the worlds for BC they will grab at the opportunity. Don't attempt to dress up their decision to ride for OGE as something it's not, or use it to take an unmerited swipe at BC or their recent performance in the Worlds. BC managed to put someone in the Rainbow jersey two years ago lest we forget.

 

[sniper]

..

Brailsford appears to have been 'smart' not to get greedy and take all the big races and share the GTs and not contest monuments.

agreed.
Froome's controlled efforts in the TdF also nicely showed how aware and cautious sky are to not overdo it, to not make this look too ridiculous.

To unravel pro cycling and all its dirty deals might take many many T&Rs.

sad but o so true.

 

[sniper]

just read in bloedbroeders that geert leinders founded a company for electric bikes in 2011.

 

[LaFlorecita]

well you need someone new now that Contador is almost finished

True true

 

[Benotti69]

Actually the team that won the last two TdF's is not the
team that shouts the loudest, nor did they join the
organisation of teams that shout the loudest.

Not true.

What team sacked a bunch of people due to their past doping? Only Sky.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I think they tone it down outside of the TdF or for their prep races for the TdF, but i think they had help from Uncle Pat and ASO for July.

I don't know about that. They repeated their glorious run of stage racing domination from February to the end of July in 2013. In 2012, a slightly different cast did it for almost 8 months with the Olympics included.

Mysteriously, their once-a-month, permanent peak, field domination evaporates just like clockwork too.

 

[Bexon30]

I don't know about that. They repeated their glorious run of stage racing domination from February to the end of July in 2013. In 2012, a slightly different cast did it for almost 8 months with the Olympics included.

Mysteriously, their once-a-month, permanent peak, field domination evaporates just like clockwork too.

It's the disappearance that confuses me. If your capable of performing at such high levels like Brad, Chris and Richie why loose form so much so quick? I can understand some reasons as why Brad didn't work for Chris but for both to show nothing of their best is odd for sure. Most of the top end of the peloton keeps form pretty well. But these riders drop massively away from their peak level. Not slightly but massively. Strange.

 

[Arrowfarm]

It's the disappearance that confuses me. If your capable of performing at such high levels like Brad, Chris and Richie why loose form so much so quick? I can understand some reasons as why Brad didn't work for Chris but for both to show nothing of their best is odd for sure. Most of the top end of the peloton keeps form pretty well. But these riders drop massively away from their peak level. Not slightly but massively. Strange.

Not really.

 

[EnacheV]

It's the disappearance that confuses me. If your capable of performing at such high levels like Brad, Chris and Richie why loose form so much so quick? I can understand some reasons as why Brad didn't work for Chris but for both to show nothing of their best is odd for sure. Most of the top end of the peloton keeps form pretty well. But these riders drop massively away from their peak level. Not slightly but massively. Strange.

After winning a ton and have nothing left to prove that you are no1 it's hard to keep motivation. Also the planning schedule doesn't allow it.

As Sky are clean ofc they can't keep 100% level all year long.

Think at Froome. After 8 months of training and winning everything do you think he has any desire to try hard more ? Everything after TdF is like a criterium for him.

 

[sniper]

It's the disappearance that confuses me. If your capable of performing at such high levels like Brad, Chris and Richie why loose form so much so quick? I can understand some reasons as why Brad didn't work for Chris but for both to show nothing of their best is odd for sure. Most of the top end of the peloton keeps form pretty well. But these riders drop massively away from their peak level. Not slightly but massively. Strange.

as a hard-working pro-athlete you're always likely to drop back to your base level once a season.
brad's and chris' base level is 'donkey'.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I have no issue with the plummet in form / performance. It would be more suspicious if it was sustained ad nauseum.

I know for myself, there are days at work where I am just spinning the wheels, and if the people I see around me are any indication, very few are workaholics.

I think there are certain races you must field a team in, and once your rider has cache, you can charge to have that rider appear at the race. They do not have to perform, just turn up.

 

[Bexon30]

After winning a ton and have nothing left to prove that you are no1 it's hard to keep motivation. Also the planning schedule doesn't allow it.

As Sky are clean ofc they can't keep 100% level all year long.

Think at Froome. After 8 months of training and winning everything do you think he has any desire to try hard more ? Everything after TdF is like a criterium for him.

I get this point to a certain extent, but one thing that gets me ( I may need help on this please ) is the race after the TDF that Froome and Porte finished 1/2 in. Was it Belgium?, anyway, why try in that?! The WC is a massive thing to a cyclist and to win it is huge so I'm not sure I understand not having the desire for that when they win in a much lesser event. I know they had form then but Froome was the leader for GB so ???

 

[Grupetto1]

I get this point to a certain extent, but one thing that gets me ( I may need help on this please ) is the race after the TDF that Froome and Porte finished 1/2 in. Was it Belgium?, anyway, why try in that?! The WC is a massive thing to a cyclist and to win it is huge so I'm not sure I understand not having the desire for that when they win in a much lesser event. I know they had form then but Froome was the leader for GB so ???

Haha its because those post tour crits are completely fixed

 

[JimmyFingers]

It's the disappearance that confuses me. If your capable of performing at such high levels like Brad, Chris and Richie why loose form so much so quick? I can understand some reasons as why Brad didn't work for Chris but for both to show nothing of their best is odd for sure. Most of the top end of the peloton keeps form pretty well. But these riders drop massively away from their peak level. Not slightly but massively. Strange.

Really? Generally riders train to one or two peaks in the year, or perhaps look to hold form through the frist half or second half, depending on their goals. Most of the top finishes in the Worlds rode the Vuelta, and it is seen as the best preperation for the event. Only Rowe out of the GB squad rode the Vuelta, while riders like Thomas and Stannard rode the early season classics and the TdF, while Froome had a long build from the early stages races in February towards the Tour. Shouldn't be a surprise that he wasn't in good form for the Worlds.

Arguably the two that should have been were Stannard and Wiggins, but I bet Stannard is suffering from fatigue after such a long season (and he is a beast of a rider in the wet as well) and Wiggins, who bottled it.

 

[Benotti69]

Really? Generally riders train to one or two peaks in the year, or perhaps look to hold form through the frist half or second half, depending on their goals. Most of the top finishes in the Worlds rode the Vuelta, and it is seen as the best preperation for the event. Only Rowe out of the GB squad rode the Vuelta, while riders like Thomas and Stannard rode the early season classics and the TdF, while Froome had a long build from the early stages races in February towards the Tour. Shouldn't be a surprise that he wasn't in good form for the Worlds.

Arguably the two that should have been were Stannard and Wiggins, but I bet Stannard is suffering from fatigue after such a long season (and he is a beast of a rider in the wet as well) and Wiggins, who bottled it.

Gilbert had a year long peak. JRod seems to be able to do well all year.

Sky got it together for their A team with their Tenerife camps then into Europe for a week long stage race then back to Tenerfie and after July switch it off. Olympics'12 was the exception.

I remember before EPO, riders raced lots from PN to Lombardy.

Now dope during training so race less, whereas they used to use races to get up to speed.

 

[heart_attack_man]

Haha its because those post tour crits are completely fixed

Indeed. I'd be surprised if much has changed since Kimmage's description of how they work in Rough Ride. In fact, it was in these that he admitted to taking some "assistance", because the outcome wasn't going to change anyway.

Is there even ANY testing that happens in the post-tour Crits?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Gilbert had a year long peak. JRod seems to be able to do well all year.

When in 2011? He's had two years since.....

 

[sniper]

At Rabobank, Leinders (together with de Rooij) was responsible for the purchase of a sysmex machine. He bragged to Rasmussen how this would allow them to better monitor the effects of blooddoping and prevent positive tests. (source: bloedbroeders)

Did Walsh ever come across a sysmex at Sky? Is there any piece in which Walsh describes the kind of monitoring tools used by the Sky docs?