Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[martinvickers]

Phenomenal post. Very true in all respects.

The part many forget was that Festina was a national issue in France. Not from cyclists using PEDs but there was an underworld out there of dark forces import/export of drugs in and out of France.

When Armstrong entered stage right the US population had no idea what Festina not even save the fact they didn't even know it was a brand of watch.

Which is why, awful though it is, a big loud Armstrong fiasco may be good, long term, for doping in US cycling. Sure, it makes the sport shrink somewhat, for a while. But the more of an utter pariah you make of Lying Lance and, to a lesser extent, Fibbing Floyd, the more you'll get the cultural message to stick - "it ain't worth it". and while you can and will never end doping full stop, you might reduce it, and make clean riders more prepared to speak out.

Well, I can hope, can't I?

BTW thanks, Hog.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

It happens. It's not that off topic though - it's about national biases, and reasons thereof. which was the direction the Sky thread had taken.

Correction. It was the direction you took the Sky thread yourself: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1416384#post1416384

 

[martinvickers]

Correction. It was the direction you took the Sky thread yourself: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1416384#post1416384

Correction to your correction.

It was clearly, as can be seen obvious as day, a response to Red's point on the same issue. Perfectly fair point too. But THAT's what started it.

Get your facts right before you snark.

 

[red_flanders]

So it would be fair to assume that it's the same thing the other way round?
Seeing at how you're apparently able to recognize this tribalism when you see it, would you say you're above it? Or could it be that you try a bit too hard to be above it?

Nope, not above it. We all have the bias to varying degrees.

I didn't see you backing up anything you've said so far.

Not worth picking on particular posts or people. Agree with me or not, it's my view. For your consideration. If you don't agree, I'm OK with that.

 

[red_flanders]

Thank you.

So you might imagine it's legitimate to note, for example, that in Colombia, outside of a small number of specific clubs with decent reputations, there's a well known appalling doping culture? Which doesn't mean I immediately suspect Quintana.

Is there not one in France, England, Germany, America?

I don't see a difference, except that in one case it's being called a "culture" in the other cases presumably individual bad apples.

Jamaica, having almost no controls was a good point. Outside of that, I stand by my comments.

 

[kingjr]

Not worth picking on particular posts or people.

fair enough

 

[martinvickers]

Is there not one in France, England, Germany, America?

I don't see a difference, except that in one case it's being called a "culture" in the other cases presumably individual bad apples.

http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2013/10/colombia-must-rise-to-occassion.html

http://www.elespectador.com/opinion/nairo-quintana-y-el-nuevo-ciclismo-columna-434963

http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/2014/01/omerta-and-violence-cost-of-merely.html

Jamaica, having almost no controls was a good point. Outside of that, I stand by my comments.

And I mine.

 

[thehog]

I'd put my house on it...watch this space...

Depends how much your house is worth?

My take is Wiggins takes this on and is restrained by his minders from replying. They'll maintain a dignified silence.

True or not true?

 

[Benotti69]

Boy, the king of irrelevance returns.

When you've something useful to add, do let us know.

It'll be a nice change of pace.

Keep attacking the man Marty.........

 

[martinvickers]

Depends how much your house is worth?

My take is Wiggins takes this on and is restrained by his minders from replying. They'll maintain a dignified silence.

True or not true?

I think the ability of Wiggins minders to rein in his c*ck-ishness is seriously over-rated.

 

[martinvickers]

Keep attacking the man Marty.........

Keep trolling, B. Or, you know, do something useful instead.

 

[Benotti69]

The culture in the EU pro peloton is too dope.

There are no bad apples per se. It is just how it is because anti doping is a joke.

If you want to be at the pointy end of the peloton you need to PED hard and those who want a team spot need to juice up to be able to do their work for their teams.

That people are still looking for reasons why it is clean, take your head out of that dark area and take a look at the anti doping, who runs it and what those caught have said as to why they were caught.

The only conclusion is the doping culture is still the culture. That means that if not all are doping it is the high 90%s.

And the UCI are not that concerned, why? Because if they were they would've made anti doping independent and given it a big budget before setting up the CIRC.

Keep believing in you false idols if you wish but dont come on here claiming cleanliness with so called 'marginal gains' and not expect ridicule and irrelevance thrown at you.

 

[Benotti69]

Keep trolling, B. Or, you know, do something useful instead.

'Never tested positive' from the USPS fans is just as valid as the 'marginal gains', 'training harder' and 'pineapple juice in the bidons' than everyone else BS that fans of sky spew.

Dont forget the Sky mechanics dont work in the rain. So important in July in France.

 

[thehog]

I think the ability of Wiggins minders to rein in his c*ck-ishness is seriously over-rated.

True. Maybe the minders will call HQ and sort this out the old fashion way, with a press release! Just to affirm Wiggins really was a genuine Tour winner.

Wiggo didn't look so good today. Early days but I guess the words have validity.

Fun and games. Cycling is back in full swing.

 

[blackcat]

'Never tested positive' from the USPS fans is just as valid as the 'marginal gains', 'training harder' and 'pineapple juice in the bidons' than everyone else BS that fans of sky spew.

Dont forget the Sky mechanics dont work in the rain. So important in July in France.

try, "diminishing marginal return(s)". That somes it up.

with D-Queued "marginal gains aint a rounding error on a comprehensive doping program"

 

[the sceptic]

The sky train nowhere to be seen today

If it wasnt for Dawg and Little Ritchie, sky would appear pretty normal right now.

 

[blackcat]

The culture in the EU pro peloton is too dope.

There are no bad apples per se. It is just how it is because anti doping is a joke.

If you want to be at the pointy end of the peloton you need to PED hard and those who want a team spot need to juice up to be able to do their work for their teams.

That people are still looking for reasons why it is clean, take your head out of that dark area and take a look at the anti doping, who runs it and what those caught have said as to why they were caught.

The only conclusion is the doping culture is still the culture. That means that if not all are doping it is the high 90%s.

And the UCI are not that concerned, why? Because if they were they would've made anti doping independent and given it a big budget before setting up the CIRC.

Keep believing in you false idols if you wish but dont come on here claiming cleanliness with so called 'marginal gains' and not expect ridicule and irrelevance thrown at you.

false idols gilded halls.

anti-doping is a kabuki game.

it will never work.

 

[elduggo]

The sky train nowhere to be seen today

If it wasnt for Dawg and Little Ritchie, sky would appear pretty normal right now.

outside of those 2 I would say they are pretty ordinary anyway.

marginalgainsforsomeandnotforothers

 

[BYOP88]

outside of those 2 I would say they are pretty ordinary anyway.

marginalgainsforsomeandnotforothers

Maybe Wigans needs to move to Monaco.

 

[deeno1975]

Maybe Wigans needs to move to Monaco.

Was this the same Wiggins who dominated 2012 season...?? Being a bone idle wánker must be contageous or maybe he is just sh1te without the juice. Maybe his comment about Kimmage and the drugs is a reflection of himself.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

false idols gilded halls.

anti-doping is a kabuki game.

it will never work.

Or maybe it's a bukkake game?

 

[ebandit]

google

True. Maybe the minders will call HQ and sort this out the old fashion way, with a press release! Just to affirm Wiggins really was a genuine Tour winner.

hoggy...............here's me thinking google was your friend

it's as easy as.............2012 tour de france..............winner

Mark L

 

[blackcat]

Or maybe it's a bukkake game?

no, Juliette Macur detailed that someone lost a testicle in the dangerous game of Circle of Jerks.

Unless they are now doping to compensate?

 

[thehog]

hoggy...............here's me thinking google was your friend

it's as easy as.............2012 tour de france..............winner

Mark L

Generally I ignore you but as per my previous post. I'm happy to engage with you in discussion; however you make little sense or appear to say nothing at all. Could I ask you to group your throught into clear and unstandable sentences that are not elongated by excessive amounts of periods.

 

[martinvickers]

'Never tested positive' from the USPS fans is just as valid as the 'marginal gains', 'training harder' and 'pineapple juice in the bidons' than everyone else BS that fans of sky spew.

Dont forget the Sky mechanics dont work in the rain. So important in July in France.

Well, it would be if I had said any of those things. Which I clearly didn't. So back in the box with the troll.