Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[the sceptic]

Is "cleanliness" the only PR available to the team?
Are there people who believe what ever the PR person tells them?

someone who has to resort to saying things like "libel" and "conspiracy theorist" is not someone who has faith in their own position.

I dont like her credibility.

 

[Benotti69]

Virgin would be all over it in seconds, Branson is cycling mad.

What is stopping Branson doing an Alonso? Alsono is not buying another team!

Not many are willing to sponsor teams in cycling. Look how many teams have major cycling companies as major sponsors. Cannondale, Trek, Giant Shimano, Lampre Merida, BMC.

 

[martinvickers]

What is stopping Branson doing an Alonso? Alsono is not buying another team!

Not many are willing to sponsor teams in cycling. Look how many teams have major cycling companies as major sponsors. Cannondale, Trek, Giant Shimano, Lampre Merida, BMC.

What is stopping Branson, I suspect, is the stranglehold Team Sky have over British Cycling, and vice versa. There are british riders on other teams. In certain cases (Dowsett) quite good ones. But there is no room for another distinctly British team while BC and Sky are completely integrated as they currently are. And for all the recent growth, there still aren't enough top british riders for two world level teams.

In the unlikely event that Sky-refusniks the Yates brothers, or Dowsett, turned out GC contenders, for example, there might be an opportunity for a BT-Virgin style second team with a more renegade mission - the ABU of british road racing. But serious british riders still tend to come through 'the program' and 'the program' funnels quite explicitly towards sky.

Of course, if Sky then step away - the entire dynamic changes, which brings us back to the original point.

 

[mikeoneill]

clean protocol offers some good suggestions on demonstrating cleanliness

for real..
http://cleanprotocol.org/the-clean-protocol/how-it-works/

 

[DirtyWorks]

What is stopping Branson, I suspect, is the stranglehold Team Sky have over British Cycling, and vice versa. ... But serious british riders still tend to come through 'the program' and 'the program' funnels quite explicitly towards sky.

BC is Sky and 'the program' funnels to sky. Exactly like USPS.

Of course, if Sky then step away - the entire dynamic changes, which brings us back to the original point.

You are back to BC being 'the funnel' without a big budget national team.

Changing the subject, we're almost back to the days of national teams.

 

[Justinr]

What about miracle recoveries from badzilla?

What miracle recovery? Its taken 3 years to cure him.

 

[Justinr]

The above could just as easily be used to defend Alberto Contador, Riccardo Ricco, Alejandro Valverde, Mario Santamborgio, Mustafa Sayer, and 100's of other dopers.

Not with Contador - implicated in Puerto, positive for clenbuterol, traces of plasticiser in his blood. A whole regiment of smoking guns there...

 

[Justinr]

Yes, ignore the fact that both programs are identically structured. British Cycling is responsible for the success of the pro team. USA Cycling was responsible for the success of Discovery/USPS.



??? Chris Froome miracle recovery ???




Ugh. Not the "never tested positive" defense. When Lance's sports fraud was in full swing, there were no positives for the star either. The federation didn't enforce them. How about those 2009 "comeback" samples being red-hot positive and still no sanction. Ask Marion Jones about never testing positive.

Like USPS, riders associated with the program are engaged in doping controversy. (JTL, Henao)

Don't let any facts get in the way of your beliefs!

The point I was making was that for USP there were lots and lots of little stories here there and everywhere. For Sky there isn't.

Also on the 'steroid' point I'm not actually sure the amount was enough for a positive in 1999 - its hard to find out now as that always comes out as 'the covered up positive'.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Virgin would be all over it in seconds, Branson is cycling mad.

then why doesn't he already have a team?

 

[Justinr]

What is stopping Branson doing an Alonso? Alsono is not buying another team!

Not many are willing to sponsor teams in cycling. Look how many teams have major cycling companies as major sponsors. Cannondale, Trek, Giant Shimano, Lampre Merida, BMC.

Because Branson is tight and will only do something if there is a return - look how quickly he dumped F1.

 

[Tc-99m]

What is stopping Branson doing an Alonso? Alsono is not buying another team!

I think Team Brite were originally going to be a Virgin backed team back in 1998. But something went wrong with the deal.

 

[Justinr]

If Froome truly is clean and he really is an amazing athlete with great talents, then show us. Talent is not a secret. Should be easy to demonstrate. I'm sure he does Ax3 efforts in training all the time. There's data there and reporting which can easily be correlated with lactate and passport readings.

Go on Sky! Lead the way! Show us clean cycling!

Problem is Hog its hard to prove 'clean' as people will always say they're hiding something. Much easier to prove dirty or at least sling speculation around.

Not sure what it will take - but if in 10 years time new testing for new drugs has been performed retrospectively and Sky are still found to be clean will people on here accept they are clean?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Wiggins, Hesjedal and Horner have all released blood data and it accomplished nothing. The ****errati and clinic who have no real knowledge of how to interpret the data will just interpret it according to their own agenda anyway.

 

[gillan1969]

The point I was making was that for USP there were lots and lots of little stories here there and everywhere. For Sky there isn't.

Also on the 'steroid' point I'm not actually sure the amount was enough for a positive in 1999 - its hard to find out now as that always comes out as 'the covered up positive'.

for USP there was an elephant in the room...his name was armstrong...a robust and combative one day rider turned GT maestro

for SKY there is one huge gigantic elephant in the room...his name is Froome....a no hoper turned GT maestro (nay, fittest human ever recorded) and a not so little elephant...his name is Wiggins...short distance TT specialist turned GT maestro

who needs lots of little stories......

 

[The Hitch]

Wiggins, Hesjedal and Horner have all released blood data and it accomplished nothing. The ****errati and clinic who have no real knowledge of how to interpret the data will just interpret it according to their own agenda anyway.

But they are nobodies and they don't matter.

So again, why don't the release their blood values?

 

[TailWindHome]

why don't the release their blood values?

Because, whether they are doping or not, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by doing so.

 

[JimmyFingers]

But they are nobodies and they don't matter.

So again, why don't the release their blood values?

Because as shown when blood values are released it accomplishes nothing, or did you miss me making that point already?

Do you want everybodys blood values, or just Wiggins'?

 

[Justinr]

for USP there was an elephant in the room...his name was armstrong...a robust and combative one day rider turned GT maestro

for SKY there is one huge gigantic elephant in the room...his name is Froome....a no hoper turned GT maestro (nay, fittest human ever recorded) and a not so little elephant...his name is Wiggins...short distance TT specialist turned GT maestro

who needs lots of little stories......

So all you're going on is that you think its impossible to turn from a one day rider to a grand tour rider then ...

As I said - no smoking guns: dodgy steroid readings, soigneurs, hospital confessions, etc, etc

 

[thehog]

Wiggins, Hesjedal and Horner have all released blood data and it accomplished nothing. The ****errati and clinic who have no real knowledge of how to interpret the data will just interpret it according to their own agenda anyway.

Clearly you've not read the power files threads? Some very good analysis going on and little to do with doping.

I believe you're exhibiting a bias Jinmy.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Clearly you've not read the power files threads? Some very good analysis going on and little to do with doping.

I believe you're exhibiting a bias Jinmy.

Unlike you of course, hoggo, as objective as the day is long.

I was talking about blood data not power files. I think power files are more illuminating, but I'm no expert on either.

 

[gillan1969]

So all you're going on is that you think its impossible to turn from a one day rider to a grand tour rider then ...

As I said - no smoking guns: dodgy steroid readings, soigneurs, hospital confessions, etc, etc

no...the common denominator is that they don't pass the straight face test...

it's that obvious

 

[Justinr]

no...the common denominator is that they don't pass the straight face test...

One thing that doesn't pass the straight face test is Froome's TT when he crashes in to the marshall on the first corner...

 

[Sjoerdeman]

Proof? This isn't USP again - there are no miracle recoveries from cancer

The miracle is not in the cure of bilharzia, as much as it is in Froome NOT being cured from bilharzia in the normal timeframe.

Which normally should be treated with stuff like Praziquantel, for which miraculously, side effects are treated with, of all things, corticosteroids.
That leaves a lot of speculation, and of course, tinfoil hats to be adjusted, but you can at least say that its very funny. Christopher Froome; at least hes got better humour than Armstrong.

 

[thehog]

Unlike you of course, hoggo, as objective as the day is long.

I was talking about blood data not power files. I think power files are more illuminating, but I'm no expert on either.

Blood data cross referenced with power data, now there's a good thought!

That should tell everyone what they want to know. Next stop will be to barcode the riders heads.

I don't have a problem releasing the data. People are speculating anyway. Why can't they speculate with good data instead of no data?

As I keep saying, if Froome is cleans then release his passport. Shouldn't be a problem.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Of course you don't have a problem with the data being released, but what is the motivation for the riders or teams? When has releasing blood adat cleared anything up? Wiggins in 2009? Or Hesjedal in 2012? Did that conclusively prove anything either way? Or Horner last year? Nothing was accomplished, no whispers silenced, in fact in all three cases only made the clamour get louder. I see so many times posters here demanding teams release data to prove they are clean, yet I haven't actually seen it work that way.