• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

Page 1065 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Sep 29, 2012
12,197
0
0
dearwiggo.blogspot.com.au
What I think happened:

Brailsford said to Wiggo: we're starting a team but I am not going to pay a bone idle lazy w*nker like you more than you're getting now from Lottery funding, coz dude, you suck.

Wiggins thinks to himself: b*gger that for a lark. Lemme chat to Lance, he'll sort me out with the good gear. If I kick some *** I am a shoe in for a leadership role with Sky and they have the dosh, it'll be a lark eh what?
 
Dec 7, 2010
5,507
0
0
Visit site
The Hitch said:
How anyone can find that not suspicious is a mystery of the human brain.

I've probably commented on this in the past, but what's really curious to me is the underlying premise to Brailsford's claims.

He never cited any particular "British" genetic advantage that he was hoping to capitalize on, or some sort of unique "British" will-to-win that would provide the missing ingredient. No, it was simply the belief that he and his team would somehow uncover never-before-applied scientific methods that would then unleash an unstoppable GT powerhouse.

It makes me wonder: Has anyone questioned Brailsford directly about the implications of that? He must then believe that—given the vast talent pool of the pro peloton—that there are any number of riders who, had they only been fortunate enough to born under the British flag (or close enough to claim as much) then they, too, could dream the dream of winning the TdF once they cast allegiance to Team Sky.

It also makes me wonder just how many riders, in the world, Team Sky feel they could turn into GT winners? Or is there some non-British liability working against the majority of pro cyclists around the world (and is Australia "close enough" so that it doesn't matter?).

Just curious. How many riders, under the "Sky Adavantage" could achieve what Wiggo and Froome did had they only not been born to some other, inferior, sporting nation?

And what luck! (as Hitch has pointed out) that not one, but TWO riders emerge, consecutively to fulfill Brailsford's vision of glory! What are the odds?

No, seriously. What are the odds? Surely with all the wizardry available to Team Sky, they could come up with an answer to that (but maybe only if I harass on them on Twitter. Which obviously they don't care about. Until they do...)
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
2
0
Visit site
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
2
0
Visit site
hrotha said:
Their future British winner was supposed to be Kennaugh, not Wiggins, and certainly not Froome.
really?
seems more like he was one of several candidates.
from 2008:
"There's a couple of candidates who we feel have the capability [to win the Tour de France]," he said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/7475579.stm

from the same article:
And he intends to apply the same rigour and attention to detail he uses in those cycling disciplines to deliver success on the road.

"The next phase for us is to keep on growing, and establish a British road team," said Brailsford.

"We have a coaching methodology, there's a certain ethos that we work to, and to be able to embrace that and implant it onto a road team under the same umbrella as the Great Britain cycling team is a pretty exciting project."
 
Jun 15, 2010
1,318
0
0
Visit site
Granville57 said:
I've probably commented on this in the past, but what's really curious to me is the underlying premise to Brailsford's claims.

He never cited any particular "British" genetic advantage that he was hoping to capitalize on, or some sort of unique "British" will-to-win that would provide the missing ingredient. No, it was simply the belief that he and his team would somehow uncover never-before-applied scientific methods that would then unleash an unstoppable GT powerhouse.

It makes me wonder: Has anyone questioned Brailsford directly about the implications of that? He must then believe that—given the vast talent pool of the pro peloton—that there are any number of riders who, had they only been fortunate enough to born under the British flag (or close enough to claim as much) then they, too, could dream the dream of winning the TdF once they cast allegiance to Team Sky.

It also makes me wonder just how many riders, in the world, Team Sky feel they could turn into GT winners? Or is there some non-British liability working against the majority of pro cyclists around the world (and is Australia "close enough" so that it doesn't matter?).

Just curious. How many riders, under the "Sky Adavantage" could achieve what Wiggo and Froome did had they only not been born to some other, inferior, sporting nation?

And what luck! (as Hitch has pointed out) that not one, but TWO riders emerge, consecutively to fulfill Brailsford's vision of glory! What are the odds?

No, seriously. What are the odds? Surely with all the wizardry available to Team Sky, they could come up with an answer to that (but maybe only if I harass on them on Twitter. Which obviously they don't care about. Until they do...)

Well he says that EBH is the most talented in the squad.Not Wiggins or Froome.
 
Dec 7, 2010
5,507
0
0
Visit site
simo1733 said:
Well he says that EBH is the most talented in the squad.Not Wiggins or Froome.
Lucky for him that Wiggo and Froome have already stood atop the podium.

Which raises another interesting question. What if they hadn't yet? To what lengths would Sky have gone to have a BRITISH TdF winner over another talented rider within their own ranks? Just how important was the "British" part of the equation as opposed to simply putting anyone in the Maillot Jaune in Paris? (Because, apparently, getting there is a rather simple task)
 

Justinr

BANNED
Feb 18, 2013
806
0
0
Visit site
sniper said:
jeez you gotta have your head deep in the sand not to raise an eyebrowe or two here.

You might have to explain that one. What do you have a problem with - taking Olympic success and building on it or encouraging mass participation?
 

Justinr

BANNED
Feb 18, 2013
806
0
0
Visit site
Granville57 said:
Lucky for him that Wiggo and Froome have already stood atop the podium.

Which raises another interesting question. What if they hadn't yet? To what lengths would Sky have gone to have a BRITISH TdF winner over another talented rider within their own ranks? Just how important was the "British" part of the equation as opposed to simply putting anyone in the Maillot Jaune in Paris? (Because, apparently, getting there is a rather simple task)

According to wiki the british part was dropped in 2010 - just the winning the tdf bit was kept.
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
2
0
Visit site
Granville57 said:
Lucky for him that Wiggo and Froome have already stood atop the podium.

Which raises another interesting question. What if they hadn't yet? To what lengths would Sky have gone to have a BRITISH TdF winner over another talented rider within their own ranks? Just how important was the "British" part of the equation as opposed to simply putting anyone in the Maillot Jaune in Paris? (Because, apparently, getting there is a rather simple task)

imagine a soccer coach of a low-profile soccer club say "within five years time we want to win the champions league" and subsequently go on and win it two times in a row.

edit: in tennis, the only example i know of a mediocre talent promising a big result in the (near) future and subsequently accomplishing it is Andy Murray.
 
Dec 7, 2010
5,507
0
0
Visit site
Justinr said:
According to wiki the british part was dropped in 2010 - just the winning the tdf bit was kept.

Too bad they had such little faith in their own, in the end.

It makes for a better story, and would've made for a better movie. :(

Wiki:
Although there have been speculations that Team Sky's tactics and success imply use of banned substances, Brailsford has strenuously denied any team use of illegal substances, citing his team's success in the Olympics as proof that you don't need to dope to dominate.
Well there you have it. Nothing says clean sport like the word "Olympics."
 
hrotha said:
Their future British winner was supposed to be Kennaugh, not Wiggins, and certainly not Froome.

I don't recall db calling Kennaugh by name. He just said future British winner. the media said kennaugh because to them at the time, logically kennaugh made the most sense, or rather the least least sense. They didn't know the real plan was to take nobodies from the autobus and turn them into tdf winners.

Because really there was nothing about Kennaugh that made him stand out any more than 50 other youngsters stand out any year. Coming 3rd in the gio bio guarantees absolute squat. Its suggestive of talent, but plenty of riders never fulfill that potential and even of those that do only a tiny minority end up challenging for the Tour de France.

let alone within 5 years.
 
sniper said:
edit: in tennis, the only example i know of a mediocre talent promising a big result in the (near) future and subsequently accomplishing it is Andy Murray.

oh ffs. :rolleyes:

Granville57 said:
Well at least you didn't break any forum rules in your first post.

Will you be staying long? :)

unnecesary reply and i don't trust the poster, but on this he does have a point. Sniper's post went full genius. Why bring tennis up in the first place. And then to open the murray can of worms just makes everything he says look dumb. people can debate whether murray was a talent or not in the tennis thread. But he is certainly had 10 000 more potential than Froome or wiggins, and its not like his development coincides with sudden british investment in the sport. Britain has been trying to get a top star for decades and murray is the first time it has succeeded and they have absolutely no one else.
The comparison does not belong in this thread.
 
May 26, 2009
4,114
0
0
Visit site
The Hitch said:
I don't recall db calling Kennaugh by name. He just said future British winner. the media said kennaugh because to them at the time, logically kennaugh made the most sense, or rather the least least sense. They didn't know the real plan was to take nobodies from the autobus and turn them into tdf winners.

Because really there was nothing about Kennaugh that made him stand out any more than 50 other youngsters stand out any year. Coming 3rd in the gio bio guarantees absolute squat. Its suggestive of talent, but plenty of riders never fulfill that potential and even of those that do only a tiny minority end up challenging for the Tour de France.

let alone within 5 years.

Exactly, Marco Marzano won the giro bio and did squat in his pro career. If only he signed with Sky.
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
2
0
Visit site
The Hitch said:
unnecesary reply and i don't trust the poster, but on this he does have a point. Sniper's post went full genius. Why bring tennis up in the first place. And then to open the murray can of worms just makes everything he says look dumb. people can debate whether murray was a talent or not in the tennis thread. But he is certainly had 10 000 more potential than Froome or wiggins, and its not like his development coincides with sudden british investment in the sport. Britain has been trying to get a top star for decades and murray is the first time it has succeeded and they have absolutely no one else.
The comparison does not belong in this thread.
fair point re: Murray.
 
Feb 22, 2014
779
0
0
Visit site
The Hitch said:
Because really there was nothing about Kennaugh that made him stand out any more than 50 other youngsters stand out any year. Coming 3rd in the gio bio guarantees absolute squat. Its suggestive of talent, but plenty of riders never fulfill that potential and even of those that do only a tiny minority end up challenging for the Tour de France.

let alone within 5 years.

Congratulations. Bingo! Jackpot. You've just explained the "mystery" behind Froome's early career. Late starter, unable to deliver consistently, facing loss of contract, gets healthy, experienced and no-doubt lucky. Otherwise just more unfulfilled potential.

Now put that prodigious intellect of yours to work on the new info from the Henao case, rather than reheating uninteresting leftovers.
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
3
0
Visit site
Ventoux Boar said:
Congratulations. Bingo! Jackpot. You've just explained the "mystery" behind Froome's early career. Late starter, unable to deliver consistently, facing loss of contract, gets healthy, experienced and no-doubt lucky. Otherwise just more unfulfilled potential.

Now put that prodigious intellect of yours to work on the new info from the Henao case, rather than reheating uninteresting leftovers.

1107_unicorn_head_mask_inuse.jpg
 
The Hitch said:
I don't recall db calling Kennaugh by name. He just said future British winner. the media said kennaugh because to them at the time, logically kennaugh made the most sense, or rather the least least sense. They didn't know the real plan was to take nobodies from the autobus and turn them into tdf winners.

Because really there was nothing about Kennaugh that made him stand out any more than 50 other youngsters stand out any year. Coming 3rd in the gio bio guarantees absolute squat. Its suggestive of talent, but plenty of riders never fulfill that potential and even of those that do only a tiny minority end up challenging for the Tour de France.

let alone within 5 years.

As a potential "British" winner sometime in the future (not within 5 years) Kennaugh probably made the most sense* pre 2009 TdF.

Finishing 3rd at the Girobio aged 20 against competition born in 1986-1987 is a very good result. Especially if he was clean.

*should super secret Froome WCC test results never be released
 
Feb 22, 2014
779
0
0
Visit site
the sceptic said:
***edited by mod***

You seem to disagree. Care to explain why it's not possible that there are several Froome's per cohort of riders who for millions of reasons don't fulfill their potential?

Or perhaps we can agree that if he had ridden a poor Vuelta he would have been seeking a new contract. And then who knows?
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
3
0
Visit site
Ventoux Boar said:
You seem to disagree. Care to explain why it's not possible that there are several Froome's per cohort of riders who for millions of reasons don't fulfill their potential?

Or perhaps we can agree that if he had ridden a poor Vuelta he would have been seeking a new contract. And then who knows?

Anything is possible. Cavendish could win the tour by 2 hours. The earth could get invaded by aliens. You could make a coherent post.

But, I have to go with the most likely scenario, that Froome started doping. Anything else is just wishful thinking and believing in unicorns.
 

TRENDING THREADS