Ventoux Boar said:
So your take is, he had 'badzilla' treatment around June/July 2011 then kicked *** at the Vuelta just on bread and water?
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So your take is, he had 'badzilla' treatment around June/July 2011 then kicked *** at the Vuelta just on bread and water?
Granville57 said:
Maybe The Sky fans can tell us if that's the case, they know everything!!!!
SundayRider said:
Well i didnt say it did, it was just a question.
What i do find interesting is that you dont see many teams warming down (and for arguments sake lets assume that they therefore dont warm down) anyone know why?
Granville57 said:Well, to be fair, Cobo's helmet was probably more aero.
In that picture I've noticed that the cyclist not wearing glasses is ahead of those cyclists that are wearing glasses. #marginalgains.
Justinr said:
Maybe they would rather change/shower/eat/get a massage rather than spend more time on a bike? Maybe they don't feel its worthwhile.
Granville57 said:
Exactly. Take any WorldTour winner, and rest assured they would still have won on any other WorldTour team's bike.
Fortunately for the bike industry there are plenty of credulous fools out there who believe their marketing.
(I do pity any sponsored rider who had to ride Mavic Mektronic. That's an exception to the rule.)
The whole marginal gains thing makes it sound like the riders before 2010 were overweight fast-food restaurant customers riding in 40kg bomb suits while using their hands to pedal lead-framed bikes with square wheels.
To be honest, if it was like that that would explain how Froome is now cleaning up.
To be honest, if it was like that that would explain how Froome is now cleaning up.
BYOP88 said:
More likely aimed at those on Twitter who harass / ask important questions of* the riders (and their families) directly.
* delete as you see fit.
SundayRider said:
Maybe they have tried it and found it didn't turn them into GT winners and they went looking for another answer.
red_flanders said:
Maybe they should try it - seems to have worked for the last 2 TdF winners.
Justinr said:
Froome doesn't warm down after every stage and if Wiggans did(which I doubt) he stopped doing it in July 2012.
Justinr said:
I'll repeat, maybe they have. This is not a new thing. People were warming down in the 80's.
For those of us who have been paying attention for a while it's comical for a team to act like these are innovations.
I'll bet it is actually somewhat helpful. The idea that doing things like it transforms riders is what some find laughable. The idea that Sky proffers it as an explanation only reinforces that they are attempting to explain the unexplainable. Or rather the quite easily explainable...
I doubt many people think warming down is a bad thing, and I'd bet it's probably a good thing. What people doubt is it changes a guy like Wiggins, who used to struggle with the grupetto, into a top GT contender.
Sky may not be running a doping program. They're damn sure running a PR program to cover for doping riders.
red_flanders said:
Granted it maybe harder to do when you're in the race lead, but I doubt they did/do it on the stages where they're not race leader.
BYOP88 said:
That too. Look, the fact is that even if it's a good practice to warm down on some stages, it's not a difference maker as you point out. I'm with you. Anything that is really going to make a difference isn't going to suddenly not matter if you don't do it.
BYOP88 said:
[Sorry to break off mid-chinwag. Had to catch a few Spring photons]
That's a fair question. And good deal more rational than the Sky shill taunts. No offence, but your general posting suggests you're far too sharp for handbags. (Not that I'm not game for a laugh
) My take is that I don't believe in miracles. I doubt he was a donkey 6 weeks before the Vuelta, somehow scored some seriously good gear, permanently transforming him into the best rider most of us have ever seen.
I think it's much more likely that his results were compromised by illness, inexperience at elite level, defensive team tactics, and 1001 other things that lead most riders to fall short of their potential. If correct, it's shortsighted to directly equate results with maximum performance.
I also think his dominance over Tour debutant, and superstar Valverde sacrifice, Quintana is exaggerated. As are the climbing records - sample size and Alpe d'Huez for example.
Accepting that he needed to fix quite a few things, but that the underlying engine was sound, paradoxically makes the dark arts case easier to make. Now we don't need miraculous transformations, we just need a snapping of resolve in desperation to save a career. And regular, 'everybody does it', doping.
All this heretic hunting is diverting y'all from committing acts of original thought around the Sergio situation.
That's my take.
Ventoux Boar said:
There's another thread for that and the conspiracy theorists are in even higher gear than they are on this thread.
Ventoux Boar said:
Cheers for the reply, it's ok I'm aware that people have other stuff that needs attention IRL instead of the fun game of back &forth of internet chat rooms.
Ventoux Boar said:That's a fair question. And good deal more rational than the Sky shill taunts. No offence, but your general posting suggests you're far too sharp for handbags. (Not that I'm not game for a laugh
I don't mind the odd game of 'handbags' every once in a while, who doesn't?
Ventoux Boar said:
I don't think I've ever said he was a donkey. I think(I could be wrong in my logic) it's unlikely a "donkey" would survive that long in the peloton. Regarding the responding to the gear, maybe a clean bill of health meant he could respond better to his or the teams program or maybe he's never done any gear and he is just that good.
I accept he had Schistosomiasis at some point in his life, again I don't think I've ever doubted that point. I just find it strange that the amount of tests that are run on cyclists by elite teams wouldn't they pick something up with Froome's test results. Given the PR that Sky come up with and the science they say they employ, I do find it a little odd that this could escape their net. From the stuff I've looked up about the illness it does seem that with most illnesses the quicker it's found the easier it is to treat and cure. The longer it's left the more damage it does and can lead to more serious conditions like HIV, flaccid paraplegia, Bladder cancer and other stuff. It would help if the info regarding Froome and this all said the same thing, but Cound says one thing, Team Sky say another, Froome says another and so on. Look at what Cound said on Velorooms regarding the treatment in March 2012 to what Froome said about it.
I don't think it matters if a guy is riding the Tour for the first or tenth time, you got the legs you've got them. The reason that people mention the climbing times is because of the stuff Brailsford says. Just out of interest, do you think that Valverde and Quintana are clean?(I'm happy to discuss that in the Movistar thread, to not derail this one)Ventoux Boar said:
I see your point that he may have needed to fix stuff and those things may have turned him from autobus-podium, but in the time frame of Poland to Vuelta, I don't see how that's possible.Ventoux Boar said:
Been doing that on another forum. Could do with a few more hours in the day.Ventoux Boar said:
Ventoux Boar said:
Once again, thanks for the reply. Have a good one.
Tremendous. I was giving my general take, by the way, not suggesting you held all views. Amongst the interesting things you said, this stood out.
One of the things I learned from the Sergio situation is that the anomaly was picked up by the Sky expert team formed in the wake of JTL to monitor compliance: suggesting to me that there was no monitoring before winter 2013, with all sorts of interesting implications.
BYOP88 said:
One of the things I learned from the Sergio situation is that the anomaly was picked up by the Sky expert team formed in the wake of JTL to monitor compliance: suggesting to me that there was no monitoring before winter 2013, with all sorts of interesting implications.
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