Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Mellow Velo]

I thought Stannard got a decent result last year in MSR and the weather was even a little warmer this year. If he rode MSR maybe Sky could've won it with Swift. Yes he could get a result in those upcoming semi classics or he could crash out in the 1st and miss the other 2.

Could have, would have, should have: Who knows?
Not sure how he could have got Swift to sprint Faster than Kristoff tbh.
Comfortably the quickest finisher.
Last year, most of the field quit and the course was radically changed.
All his stars aligned and he finished 8th.

His goal is to go well in the cobbled races.

Put it another way: Do we know of any rider pencilled in to ride all these 4 races?
Put it yet another way: How do the doping dots join by him not racing on Sunday in Italy, but racing in Belgium on Wednesday?
Yet another way: Does everything Sky do have to have a doping rational?
Could this race schedule not just be a logical one?

 

[Netserk]

The logical thing would be to ride Sanremo and skip Dwaars.

 

[roundabout]

Puccio it seems is down to race all 4.

And Eisel, and Knees, and Rasch and Thomas

Subject to confirmation and based on starters published on race websites

 

[hrotha]

The thing is that when you're changing the schedule of half your team on short notice right after the Henao issue blows up when you're on record saying it's better not to alter a rider's racing program too much it's going to raise some eyebrows.

 

[red_flanders]

And indeed i dont Red. The combination of Riis and Tinkof and Tinkof's comments on Berty not being prepared enough last year prove why there needs to be a big clear out.

And you know what - i dont think Berty was very juiced last year. He looked completely shot in the mountains and not like he used to. I'm guessing but maybe the plasticiser incident freaked him and many others out.

It certainly looked that way. Wish he felt he could compete with last year's form. That would be nice...

 

[red_flanders]

The thing is that when you're changing the schedule of half your team on short notice right after the Henao issue blows up when you're on record saying it's better not to alter a rider's racing program too much it's going to raise some eyebrows.

Bingo. Seems pretty obvious that's why people are talking about it. If it was a bad idea for him to ride MSR, seems like that would have been figured out say...4 months ago or whenever they decided on Stannards program.

 

[del1962]

The clinic dopebots have surpassed them themselves with the meme that because Stannard did not ride MSR he is a doper

Was Phinney glowing too?

 

[red_flanders]

The clinic dopebots have surpassed them themselves with the meme that because Stannard did not ride MSR he is a doper

Was Phinney glowing too?

Please back up this claim by showing us where anyone here says "because Stannard did not ride MSR he is a doper", and further how it has become a "meme".

 

[BYOP88]

Could have, would have, should have: Who knows?
Not sure how he could have got Swift to sprint Faster than Kristoff tbh.
Comfortably the quickest finisher.
Last year, most of the field quit and the course was radically changed.
All his stars aligned and he finished 8th.

His goal is to go well in the cobbled races.

Put it another way: Do we know of any rider pencilled in to ride all these 4 races?
Put it yet another way: How do the doping dots join by him not racing on Sunday in Italy, but racing in Belgium on Wednesday?
Yet another way: Does everything Sky do have to have a doping rational?
Could this race schedule not just be a logical one?

He rode all 4 last year so did Thomas and Rasch too. But you knew that already, right?

I'm guessing Thomas will do all 4 again this year.

 

[Mellow Velo]

He rode all 4 last year so did Thomas and Rasch too. But you knew that already, right?

I'm guessing Thomas will do all 4 again this year.

Didn't exactly produce a result.
With a best result of 9th in Dwars, then he faded.
Hence a schedule change would seem appropriate.
Netserk suggests a possible alternative.

What about the other questions posed?
You didn't address those.
RF doesn't believe anyone here is saying "....Stannard did not ride MSR he is a doper".
Why do you think this change in race schedule significant?

 

[Ripper]

The clinic dopebots have surpassed them themselves with the meme that because Stannard did not ride MSR he is a doper

Was Phinney glowing too?

Who, exactly, are the clinic dopebots?

I don't hear a lot of chatter about Stannard.

 

[BYOP88]

Didn't exactly produce a result.
With a best result of 9th in Dwars, then he faded.
Hence a schedule change would seem appropriate.
Netserk suggests a possible alternative.

What about the other questions posed?
You didn't address those.
RF doesn't believe anyone here is saying "....Stannard did not ride MSR he is a doper".
Why do you think this change in race schedule significant?

I believe that Stannard is a doper and not just because he bailed on MSR, but as you know I believe that all of the peloton are dopers. I don't play favorites.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

He rode all 4 last year so did Thomas and Rasch too. But you knew that already, right?

I'm guessing Thomas will do all 4 again this year.

Stannard's results in those races were mediocre, miles from the podium, followed by 51st at Roubaix.

A more serious tilt at Roubaix might well involve a change to his schedule. (Cancellara misses Omloop and Boonen seems content to ride for others I recall). Just a thought.

 

[red_flanders]

RF doesn't believe anyone here is saying "....Stannard did not ride MSR he is a doper".
Why do you think this change in race schedule significant?

There is quite a difference between saying "I think suspecting Stannard of doping for pulling out of MSR is nonsense" and "The clinic dopebots have surpassed them themselves with the meme that because Stannard did not ride MSR he is a doper".

I thought it was pretty obvious. One is a statement of opinion, the other is a name-calling strawman intended to devalue the opinion of anyone who is questioning Stannard's no show by broadly insulting anyone who participates in the discussion.

Why is the change in schedule significant? It's been said above by others.

I find it suspicious because of Sky's multiple abandon's immediately in the wake of the Henao's issues. Further (as has also been stated) Sky are on the record as saying that changing a rider's program is generally a bad idea, so when they change a rider's program (particularly at the last minute, under somewhat suspicious timing) it's certainly worth some questions. Further, some above are refuting the idea that riding MSR was a bad idea (or something like that) as postulated by Ventoux Boar. If it were a bad idea they'd have never put it on his program.

It could be absolutely nothing. I don't necessarily think Stannard is a doper, he's done nothing to make me think he is. But the timing of his scratch from MSR is odd given what's going on with the rest of the team.

See how that's not a blanket accusation and simply suspicion and questions? It would be simple for someone to offer a reasonable explanation and leave it at that, but when people start offering unreasonable explanations and attacking the entire forum for asking the question, well then you have a less than ideal thread with what I'd call "low information responses".

 

[The Hitch]

Seriously is the new clinic meme that because someone worked with Sciandri then they are suspected of doping, that mean anyone at BMC last year including Pinotti is suspect?

I think this statement also falls in the false statements intended to provoke category specified by red above. 1 poster says swift rode for sciandri and you're already trying to beat the whole clinic with it.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I believe that Stannard is a doper and not just because he bailed on MSR, but as you know I believe that all of Sky(peloton) are dopers. I don't play favorites.

Thanks for that.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

This is surely a simple one. Questions have been raised. Why not? That's a lot of pillows to rearrange. And a plausible response came forth.

Should be pretty easy to decide if this is another brick in the wall. Or not.

 

[BYOP88]

This is surely a simple one. Questions have been raised. Why not? That's a lot of pillows to rearrange. And a plausible response came forth.

Should be pretty easy to decide if this is another brick in the wall. Or not.

Nice .....10char

 

[red_flanders]

Nice .....10char

BYOP...Bring Your Own Pillow?

 

[Ventoux Boar]

I think this statement also falls in the false statements intended to provoke category specified by red above. 1 poster says swift rode for sciandri and you're already trying to beat the whole clinic with it.

Let's see if he sinks. Ridicule the point with panache or ignore it. But we're good with whingeing like there's a war on Christmas. Thanks.

 

[BYOP88]

BYOP...Bring Your Own Pillow?

or Bring Your Own Pee both are important things to remember in cycling.

 

[sniper]

...
It could be absolutely nothing. I don't necessarily think Stannard is a doper, he's done nothing to make me think he is. But the timing of his scratch from MSR is odd given what's going on with the rest of the team.

perhaps you mean in terms of results.

wasn't his stay in quarrata dodgy though?
a random guess is sciandri took those BC lads to italy to see what cloth they're cut from.

After his debut senior classics season in 2008, Stannard went to live in Italy. Max Sciandri got him a ride for ISD, at the time run by Luca Scinto, whom he credits with teaching him a lot about the life of a pro (“how to train like a professional, and how to race like a professional”). He rode his first Grand Tour – the Giro.

mkay.

“Max introduced me to watches and Vespas. Apparently it was very important, if you wanted to be a pro, to have a nice watch and a Vespa. Before you get a house, or anything, buy a nice watch, okay? It was almost like just filling in a year. Those teams were all offering two-year contracts, but we all wanted Sky. So it was a little bit random.”

sure, healthy attitude.

ow, and this:

There’s a bullishness to Ian Stannard that I wasn’t expecting. In hindsight, of course, it’s perfectly natural, quite appropriate, thoroughly reasonable. You don’t get to where he is simply by being meek. But somehow I had been lulled into the belief that he was a likeable workhorse, a servile monster. What I hadn’t banked on stumbling across was the man’s naked self-belief and simmering ambition.

doesn't sound like someone who'd shy away from doping.
(that's just first-glance speculation, mind.)
http://rouleur.cc/journal/riders/ian-stannard

 

[red_flanders]

perhaps you mean in terms of results.

Yes, that's mostly what I meant. Though to be fair I don't know a ton about Stannard. So from what relatively little I know, I had no reason to suspect him of anything.

wasn't his stay in quarrata dodgy though?
a random guess is sciandri took those BC lads to italy to see what cloth they're cut from.

Yeah, personally don't know anything about it. Interesting, but for me a bit thin at this point.

Look, anyone at the top level of cycling in Europe is frankly a candidate to be a doper IMO, I've been watching this circus too long. But I don't automatically suspect anyone. Stannard has put in no performances I'd consider suspect.

Just my limited view.

 

[Justinr]

that's an interesting/plausible guess.
but why didn't it freak out sky?

Maybe because they dont use blood bags?

 

[Justinr]

Bingo. Seems pretty obvious that's why people are talking about it. If it was a bad idea for him to ride MSR, seems like that would have been figured out say...4 months ago or whenever they decided on Stannards program.

Would they have a schedule to support / ride certain races for (a) pro tour reasons and (b) sponsor reasons? With Henao sidelined and an injury or two couldnt that result in lots of changes?