Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[BYOP88]

So it's happened http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/apr/10/sir-dave-brailsford-team-sky-leave-british-cycling

 

[Hugh Januss]

You guys are all wrong, Sky is clean I tell you, clean.

 

[MartinGT]

Seems like all is not well at Sky and he needs to step down from BC to wrap them back up in cotton wool.

 

[Bumeington]

Keep in mind he is the Dr interviewed by Walsh to give Froome's BP profile the all clear...

Wait what!?

That was Alan Farrell

 

[martinvickers]

Not cycling but linked it in as it's in reference to Dr. Steve Peters with Sky and British Cycling. Rodgers has warned other clubs from snatching him away from Liverpool and I seen last week his role has increased there with him turning up to games now in Liverpool gear. He's getting a lot of media attention at the moment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ds-off-Liverpools-mind-guru-Steve-Peters.html

I'd love to know what's the big deal with him in comparison to others. It's not as if sports psychologists are anything new to sport with guys like Willi Railo around.

I've seen respected journalists like Michael Calvin big him up as well.

He's not a psychologist. He's a psychiatrist, and one with a history of dealing with deeply abnormal minds. Given that he was dealing with the likes of Wiggins and Pendleton when he was brought in, I'm not altogether surprised they went hardcore on the mental side. seems to work, though - wouldn't want to overegg the pudding, but Liverpool have certainly improved markedly, especially their mid-range underachieving players like Henderson.

 

[del1962]

He's not a psychologist. He's a psychiatrist, and one with a history of dealing with deeply abnormal minds. Given that he was dealing with the likes of Wiggins and Pendleton when he was brought in, I'm not altogether surprised they went hardcore on the mental side. seems to work, though - wouldn't want to overegg the pudding, but Liverpool have certainly improved markedly, especially their mid-range underachieving players like Henderson.

I don't think Suarez has bitten anyone recently either

 

[martinvickers]

I don't think Suarez has bitten anyone recently either

A miracle worker, I tell ye!

Jesus, I wish #mufc had him. Ever a club needed psychiatric treatment....

 

[Digger]

A miracle worker, I tell ye!

Jesus, I wish #mufc had him. Ever a club needed psychiatric treatment....

We'll see on Sunday how it goes!!

Actually, on a sidenote, how you think Sunday's game will go?

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

He's not a psychologist. He's a psychiatrist, and one with a history of dealing with deeply abnormal minds. Given that he was dealing with the likes of Wiggins and Pendleton when he was brought in, I'm not altogether surprised they went hardcore on the mental side. seems to work, though - wouldn't want to overegg the pudding, but Liverpool have certainly improved markedly, especially their mid-range underachieving players like Henderson.

A doctor with a team with a history of turning donkeys into racehorses goes to another team and repeats the trick. Where's Digger when you need him, oh wait he's a LFC fan

 

[martinvickers]

We'll see on Sunday how it goes!!

Actually, on a sidenote, how you think Sunday's game will go?

I think Liverpool will win. City have the better players. Pool have the better team and coach. And the 'destiny' part of my brain says Gerrard is going to do a Robson - a career of dilligent service without a title, and then picking up one at the end.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That was Alan Farrell

We're both wrong

It was Richard Freeman.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...-froome-unfair-journalist-20130722-2qf3v.html

 

[Nathan12]

We're both wrong

It was Richard Freeman.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...-froome-unfair-journalist-20130722-2qf3v.html

"Before I could be satisfied, I spent two weeks re-examining all of his blood samples from his two seasons in our team and looked at all the information in his biological passport".

Bilharzia can't have affected his blood then, according to Freeman. But Froome says it feeds on RBCs. And Brailsford gave it as the reason for his inconsistencies. So what effect does it have on performance?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

"Before I could be satisfied, I spent two weeks re-examining all of his blood samples from his two seasons in our team and looked at all the information in his biological passport".

Bilharzia can't have affected his blood then, according to Freeman. But Froome says it feeds on RBCs. And Brailsford gave it as the reason for his inconsistencies. So what effect does it have on performance?

Doncha just love the consistency and the transparency?

 

[Catwhoorg]

"Before I could be satisfied, I spent two weeks re-examining all of his blood samples from his two seasons in our team and looked at all the information in his biological passport".

Bilharzia can't have affected his blood then, according to Freeman. But Froome says it feeds on RBCs. And Brailsford gave it as the reason for his inconsistencies. So what effect does it have on performance?

The main effect is a persistent fever and fatigue, form chronic inflammation around the eggs, something like a low grade flu that you just cannot shake. Coughs are common, WBC counts are elevated (just like any infection). Tough to be consistent, when recovery from exercise is affected.

There can be blood loss in urine and faeces, but its possible not certain.


We have been through this pretty thoroughly (here or the Froome thread I forget which, maybe even both)

Froome was flat out wrong, when he says it feeds of RBC, but then again he isn't a doctor and may not have had a full grasp of what it actually does.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Froome was flat out wrong, when he says it feeds of RBC, but then again he isn't a doctor and may not have had a full grasp of what it actually does.

The BS goes deeper than that, sorry.

Michelle Cound says he got the test for the parasite coz his brother with riddled with it - either here in the clinic or on twitter or somewhere equally public.

Froome says in a video interview he was told he had it by UCI BP test people, as if he had never heard of it.

Then there's the treatment that seems all kinds of wonky and fortuitously successful for a couple of years right before he needs to perform off the scale.

 

[Nathan12]

The BS goes deeper than that, sorry.

Michelle Cound says he got the test for the parasite coz his brother with riddled with it - either here in the clinic or on twitter or somewhere equally public.

Froome says in a video interview he was told he had it by UCI BP test people, as if he had never heard of it.

Then there's the treatment that seems all kinds of wonky and fortuitously successful for a couple of years right before he needs to perform off the scale.

This, basically. I'd also like to add, observationally, that it seems pretty odd for anyone, but especially an elite athlete, to have a disease for years and be that massively mistaken about its effects on his own body.

 

[Digger]

Had to look at Walsh's book again last night for research.
The bilharzia in the book. Summary. Froome had normal medicine. Stronger wasn't needed as it wasn't a bad enough case.
While he was visiting his brother in KENYA, the UCI performed a blood test. He asked them to look for something as he wasn't feeling good etc.
Walsh said the side effects of the drug are brutal as it wipes 'stuff' out. (His words)
For a week to ten days the patient is wiped out also.

He said the Bilharzia chomps your red blood cells, gives rashes, causes lethargy, headaches, fever and other things.

Walsh said Bilharzia subsided and he raced well in March and April of 2011. Then it returned.Took more Biltricide after TOS in 2011. And also his work with Julich on 'bike skills, life skills, and race skill' came to fruition.



And people wonder why we think Walsh sold out.

 

[sniper]

The BS goes deeper than that, sorry.

Michelle Cound says he got the test for the parasite coz his brother with riddled with it - either here in the clinic or on twitter or somewhere equally public.

Froome says in a video interview he was told he had it by UCI BP test people, as if he had never heard of it.

Then there's the treatment that seems all kinds of wonky and fortuitously successful for a couple of years right before he needs to perform off the scale.

In a June 27 Telegraph article by Ian Chadband, Froome’s brother is quoted as saying that they used to fish and hunt in rice fields in Kenya.

“Those fields were riddled with bilharzia,” Chadband writes, “the debilitating parasitic infection which affected all three brothers for years and which seriously stunted Chris’s first years as a professional.”

http://www.decodedscience.com/chris-froomes-parasite-what-is-bilharzia-anyway/33544/2
perhaps there is more in that chadband telegraph article. (no time to look for it now)

 

[Nathan12]

Had to look at Walsh's book again last night for research.
The bilharzia in the book. Summary. Froome had normal medicine. Stronger wasn't needed as it wasn't a bad enough case.
While he was visiting his brother in KENYA, the UCI performed a blood test. He asked them to look for something as he wasn't feeling good etc.
Walsh said the side effects of the drug are brutal as it wipes 'stuff' out. (His words)
For a week to ten days the patient is wiped out also.

He said the Bilharzia chomps your red blood cells, gives rashes, causes lethargy, headaches, fever and other things.

Walsh said Bilharzia subsided and he raced well in March and April of 2011. Then it returned.Took more Biltricide after TOS in 2011. And also his work with Julich on 'bike skills, life skills, and race skill' came to fruition.



And people wonder why we think Walsh sold out.

Sweet Jesus that's a load of crap. Is he simply not worried about his professional reputation any more? For a start- what does he mean by 'normal' medicine. Praziquantel is what you take to cure bilharzia, mild infection or not. But a 'mild case' would not keep appearing! Froome's case, since it reoccurs multiple times (to the point where he should be a medical marvel), must be a serious infection- which, according to medical studies, lowers haemoglobin Yet the Sky doc Freeman said no change in his blood values.

 

[Nathan12]

http://www.decodedscience.com/chris-froomes-parasite-what-is-bilharzia-anyway/33544/2
perhaps there is more in that chadband telegraph article. (no time to look for it now)

It directly contradicts the UCI screening story, for one thing.

 

[Digger]

Sorry just for clarification. I used the word normal. That was my fault. I should have used the word 'conventional'.
The point being that baltricide was the conventional one to use and his condition wasn't bad enough as to require anything stronger.

The treatment left him feeling bad for a week or so after, but nothing too bad.

Also emphasises how the eggs can get trapped within different organs.


The annoying thing is that he speaks in general terms about Bilharzia. Not from Froome's perspective. Was Froome's blood levels affected? If so why wasn't his biopassport different?
And if his blood was not affected, I don't see how it was such a bad case as to warrant this transformation.

None of this makes any sense.

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

Sweet Jesus that's a load of crap. Is he simply not worried about his professional reputation any more? For a start- what does he mean by 'normal' medicine. Praziquantel is what you take to cure bilharzia, mild infection or not. But a 'mild case' would not keep appearing! Froome's case, since it reoccurs multiple times (to the point where he should be a medical marvel), must be a serious infection- which, according to medical studies, lowers haemoglobin Yet the Sky doc Freeman said no change in his blood values.

Have you got a link for the lowering of the haemoglobin, as I'm sure Science is Cool linked a paper showing it didn't. Could be wrong though.

 

[Nathan12]

Have you got a link for the lowering of the haemoglobin, as I'm sure Science is Cool linked a paper showing it didn't. Could be wrong though.

Here. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9297696

And here. http://www.plosntds.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pntd.0000241

 

[Benotti69]

Sky has posted 10 the PR points that their riders live by.


http://en.blog.zyncro.com/2013/02/04/10-rules-that-an-incompetent-professional-follows/

 

[Nathan12]

Have you got a link for the lowering of the haemoglobin, as I'm sure Science is Cool linked a paper showing it didn't. Could be wrong though.

Point is in serious cases, haemoglobin is lowered. And Froome would appear to have had a serious case. If the case was mild, and there was no change in haemoglobin- then Sky still have serious questions to answer over how he improved so quickly.