Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Netserk]

Out of interest, is the attack on Landis by Wiggins you're all arguing over the one where Wiggins says he wants to see an investigation establish the truth of the accusations?

No .

 

[BYOP88]

Out of interest, is the attack on Landis by Wiggins you're all arguing over the one where Wiggins says he wants to see an investigation establish the truth of the accusations?

No it was where Wiggans said something on these lines "He's got a grudge, he's unstable, he's a drunk, he's doing it for money since he's got no more"

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Good day Martin?

He and I switched login information today...

 

[ChewbaccaD]

What a load of bull. Amazing how you continue to distort reality to defend Wiggins.

Wiggins didn't choose between two dopers. Wiggins didn't choose to stay on the right side of the wrong person.

Wiggins knew for a fact that Armstrong doped, and that Landis was telling the truth. Yet he felt the need to pile **** on Floyd and praise a rider he knew doped. He chose omerta over anti-doping.

This is reality, and the reason Wigans is total scum in my book.

 

[RownhamHill]

No .

Care to tell me which one it was then?

 

[Granville57]

Care to tell me which one it was then?

It's been rehashed, multiple times, but an article that covers much of this actually appears in the OP of the Kimmage on Wiggans, Sky thread
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=17966

A few pertinent quotes from Wiggo's own book:

But three days later, his joy was tarnished when it was announced that Landis had tested positive. In his autobiography, In Pursuit of Glory, Wiggins records the moment vividly:

‘I felt physically sick when I heard the news. My first reaction was purely selfish and related only to me. “You b****** Landis,” I thought. “You have completely ruined my own small achievement of getting around the Tour de France and being a small part of cycling history. You and guys like you are p***ing on my sport and my dreams. Why do guys like you keep cheating? How many of you are out there, taking the p*** and getting away with it? Sod you all. You are a bunch of cheating b******* and I hope one day they catch the lot of you and ban you all for life. You can keep doing it your way and I will keep doing it mine. You won’t ever change me, you sods. B******s to all of you. At least I can look myself in the mirror”.’

‘I think they have to take a strong look at who they invite to the race in the next few years; if there is one per cent suspicion or doubt that a team is involved in doping, or (are) working with certain doctors who are under suspicion of doping, then they shouldn’t be invited to the Tour de France, it’s as simple as that. They shouldn’t even be given a racing licence until they can prove that they are not involved in wrongdoing.’

But the headlines that July were dominated by another returning star — the seven-time champion, Lance Armstrong.

In his book this is how Wiggins described what happened next…

‘To spend virtually three weeks alongside him, competing directly with him for a podium place, was not something I had ever envisaged in my career, especially after he retired in 2005. It was the stuff of dreams and we began to develop a decent rapport, enjoying a gossip early in the day before the racing kicked off properly.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2177405/Bradley-Wiggins-battle-cyclings-drug-demons--Paul-Kimmage.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

 

[RownhamHill]

No it was where Wiggans said something on these lines "He's got a grudge, he's unstable, he's a drunk, he's doing it for money since he's got no more"

Pretty sure what you've described isn't mutually exclusive with saying that the courts should decide the truth of it? I'm just interested because the 'famous' Wiggins omerta interview with cycling news has always seemed fairly mild to me, so I always wonder if I've missed something elsewhere.

 

[Granville57]

I always wonder if I've missed something elsewhere.

Hey, I'm trying my best here, but ya' gotta look up.

 

[RownhamHill]

Hey, I'm trying my best here, but ya' gotta look up

Yeah sorry, just got to that post and read the link.

I'm pretty sure the reaction to Floyd testing positive in 2006 isn't what was being discussed though. Unless you're suggesting that reacting that way in 2006 was siding with Lance?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

How long was Herety GB team manager ? Did you ever have to experience him first hand ?

In the public domain - he was sacked for taking part of the bribe for Wegelius and Southam to ride for Italy.

This is nothing about what tactics were good or bad in a race [or a football match] - the point being made was "because Herety said Ellingworth would not be associated with drugs, it was somehow given gravitas." When you have a guy who is the only GB team manager from any sport, to my knowledge, to have been sacked, whilst still in post, for bribe taking, being held up as the source of wisdom, in an issue with ethics at the heart, is not a sound basis for progress.

The fact that the point was made, was testament to the power of the media image and the disinfecting balm brought by regular popular appearances.

Herety like Riis should not be allowed anywhere near the sport and that they remain connected, simply because they have no other life and keep on showing up, is a reflection of why problems remain with the sport. That the media pander to these individuals is just as bad as the BBC hiring a guy who would assault a team-mate.

"It's sport so we can suspend reality." No, these are criminals who should be treated as criminals.

Thanks for that - your knowledge of the time lends it some colour too, much appreciated for the name. Sounds like an interesting story?

 

[Granville57]

Yeah sorry, just got to that post and read the link.

There's also this:
Sky rider discusses Armstrong and Landis
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-calls-for-biological-passport-data-to-be-made-public

and this:
Wiggins: "It was easier to spit out from the tent than spit into it"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-it-was-easier-to-spit-out-from-the-tent-than-spit-into-it

 

[RownhamHill]

There's also this:
Sky rider discusses Armstrong and Landis
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-calls-for-biological-passport-data-to-be-made-public

and this:
Wiggins: "It was easier to spit out from the tent than spit into it"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-it-was-easier-to-spit-out-from-the-tent-than-spit-into-it

Yeah that first one is exactly the article I was thinking of, the one where he says it's up to the investigation to find the truth of the matter. But according to Netserk that's not the interview in question (hence me asking him to link to the real one!). So I'm still none-the-wiser.

Thank you for trying anyway!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

(Allegedly) JV told Wiggo and all new Garmin cyclists the truth about his doping and doping in general.

Wiggo says this:

“I’ve always been a bit of a fan of Lance and have sided on the side of innocent until proven guilty with him. There isn’t an athlete or a cyclist out there that isn’t more tested than he is, certainly since his comeback, he’s probably been the most tested cyclist in the pro peloton and you take that on face value and that he’s never failed a drugs test and until he does he’s clean. That’s how I’ve always had as a stance on Lance.”

Landis tells the truth, and Wiggo says this:

“I think you have to question Landis’ credibility because he lied under oath before and the stories that you hear about him drinking and things like that and you know, [making] telephone calls to people I know, threatening them with things, you just think that the guy appears to not all be there. So when you see these kinds of claims in the press you have to question his credibility because it’s almost like it’s coming from a mad man, but at the same time maybe that’s all borne out of frustration and things.

And you read those quotes but your summary of the article is this:

Yeah that first one is exactly the article I was thinking of, the one where he says it's up to the investigation to find the truth of the matter. But according to Netserk that's not the interview in question (hence me asking him to link to the real one!). So I'm still none-the-wiser.

Surely those glasses are rose coloured? Deep crimson, and 15 inches thick?

 

[Avoriaz]

How long was Herety GB team manager ? Did you ever have to experience him first hand ?

In the public domain - he was sacked for taking part of the bribe for Wegelius and Southam to ride for Italy.

My understanding is that Herety resigned following an enquiry. 2005 WC and the plan was to ride for Roger Hammond. Wegelius, riding for an Italian team, thought this daft (Hammond had no chance) and, like many other riders before and after him, helped out his trade team colleagues, who happened to be Italian. In effect, what he and Southam did was barely different o what they would have done for Hammond - they were just a bit too blatant. Hammond finished 41st

I believe (sorry, read Wegelius' book last summer) they told Herety of their intentions, but there was no bribe that involved Herety and Herety received no cash. Having ridden on the continent himself, he would hardly have been surprised.

Herety resigned following review by a certain Mr Brailsford.

 

[martinvickers]

fair enough...

I was trying to be provocative

Yep, that's usually called trolling. Best avoided.

 

[martinvickers]

No it was where Wiggans said something on these lines "He's got a grudge, he's unstable, he's a drunk, he's doing it for money since he's got no more"

All of which, according to a number of informed people (Barry?), was actually true at the time.

The problem frankly isn't what he said about Landis, so much as his sticking up for Armstrong.

 

[martinvickers]

Wiggins and lance - been covered already.

Then Wiggins and Contador.


For a guy who was outdone for a podium place by these guys, who he knew full well were doping, he was very tranquilo for a 'clean' rider.


BTW it's one thing to want to stay on the right side of someone. It's another thing to tell everyone you love that guy. And to deride someone you know full well is telling the truth.


Wiggins and Omerta.

I don't disagree. I just don't give that the evidential value others seem to.

 

[martinvickers]

He and I switched login information today...

I knew that was you, you cheeky monkey.

 

[ralphbert]

The problem frankly isn't what he said about Landis, so much as his sticking up for Armstrong.

Eh, I don't know. If you attack the messenger when you know the message is the truth then it indicates to me that you have something to hide.

 

[The Hitch]

I don't disagree.

Glad we could convince you.

 

[Catwhoorg]

No it was where Wiggans said something on these lines "He's got a grudge, he's unstable, he's a drunk, he's doing it for money since he's got no more"

Was Wiggo looking in a mirror when he said that ?


(I like the guy, but he does have 'issues'. I seriously hope he doesn't go the way of his father in a few years.)

 

[42x16ss]

Well to be fair I don't think you can find anyone from any other country (eg Spain, France, etc.) that has blown the whole thing wide open.

Oh and Millar would count as a Brit so no need to add in Scottish separately (until October perhaps ...)

Jesus Manzano?

He needed a near death experience to give him the push but he did it. Without him there probably would never have been an Op Puerto.

 

[martinvickers]

Glad we could convince you.

Don't kid yourself.

 

[martinvickers]

Eh, I don't know. If you attack the messenger when you know the message is the truth then it indicates to me that you have something to hide.

I honestly think that would have a lot more purchase if Landis had been making allegations about Wiggins; but he wasn't - it was f*** all to do with wiggins, frankly. And I don't think Landis has forgotten that, either.

 

[Hugh Januss]

It does vary. Pretty f***ing significantly.

Yes it does, I'm right and your....................posting an awful lot.