Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

was his son representing JTL?

that mighta been a problem.

inverted oedipus

I think McQuaid just lost it and wanted to hurt those who he felt completely betrayed by.

 

[sniper]

JTL was a parting shot from McQuaid. McQuaid obviously wants to stay in sport so didn't open the whole box of worms.......

I think McQuaid just lost it and wanted to hurt those who he felt completely betrayed by.

Those were/are my thoughts as well.
Perhaps the fact that mcwuaids son was/is(?) jtls manager speaks against this hypothsis, but perhaps thats the link that allowed phat to create and control/release this story in the first place.

 

[The Hitch]

...or maybe he just doped and got caught.

Seriously....happens all the time in cycling.

I know that doesnt fit in to the 'Brailsford is the dark overlord of cycling' narrative but it might just be true!

No it doesn't. Jtl could have been caught doping doing his own ****, and Brailsford could still be the lying ******* he constantly shows himself to be.

JTL was a parting shot from McQuaid. McQuaid obviously wants to stay in sport so didn't open the whole box of worms.......

That's very specific.

It's one thing to say you think Mcquaid played some role.

Its another to say you know exactly what Mcquaid did, and why he did it.

 

[DirtyWorks]

was his son representing JTL?
What peoblem?
that mighta been a problem.

inverted oedipus

What problem? It's perfectly consistent with the rest of the uci. The current leader's son has a job at BC/Sky.

If you want to see conflicts of interests, check out the lawyers who are on CAS panels and representing athletes at another CAS arbitration . IOC sport is loaded with the same conflicts.

 

[thehog]

If there are so many positive warnings going out, then how is it JTL is the one struck by lightning? How come more letters aren't made public? We all know how bad the sport is at keeping secrets.

No need to reply. I'm probably looking at it too hard.

You're not looking to hard at all.

It's all right there before our eyes. The Verbruggen system of calling riders in for a chat has been replaced by the passport and a letter. The latter exonerates the UCI if the *** goes down.

"What are your recyltes so high?"

"Altitude Sir and I was sick".

"No problems, be careful out there".

 

[Dear Wiggo]

You're not looking to hard at all.

It's all right there before our eyes. The Verbruggen system of calling riders in for a chat has been replaced by the passport and a letter. The latter exonerates the UCI if the *** goes down.

"What are your recyltes so high?"

"Altitude Sir and I was sick".

"No problems, be careful out there".

Altitude / sickness, etc details are captured at sample collection time for specifically this purpose.

I don't think there are that many letters going out, to be honest.

 

[thehog]

Altitude / sickness, etc details are captured at sample collection time for specifically this purpose.

I don't think there are that many letters going out, to be honest.

Your first passport test upon returning to altitude is disregarded from your profile.

My point is the UCI can control doping much better by sending a letter out. It acts as a warning to a rider to dial their doping back. They have no interest in stopping doping.

The passport is not anti-doping but dope control to ensure another Puerto doesn't occur.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Your first passport test upon returning to altitude is disregarded from your profile.

Returning to or returning from?

And where have you read this? Sounds a bit illogical.

 

[thehog]

Returning to or returning from?

And where have you read this? Sounds a bit illogical.

Right you are. Per WADA rules The rider has a 2 week period post altitude which will be recorded within a passport test.

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/g...bjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=NjA2NzM&LangId=1

The complicated part seems to be the manipulation of blood values so the rider can fool the bio-passport. Bertagnolli says Ferrari advised him on the timing, to extract blood just before going on an altitude training camp and then to re-infuse upon return, this way any swings in the values can be attributed to the the training camp rather than a bag.

http://inrng.com/2012/10/diy-dracula/

Is the blood module reliable?

Somewhat. For the passport to trigger a ban, testers like to show a pattern of manipulation. One instance of a high reticulocyte percentage could point to EPO, but also a recent trip to altitude; likewise, a higher-than-normal red blood cell percentage might mean a transfusion or that an athlete is dehydrated. To avoid these problems, athletes are instructed to say whether they’ve recently trained at altitude, and testers are not supposed to collect samples within two hours of a training session or a race. In an email, Dr. Wolfgang Jelkmann, Director of the Institute of Physiology at Germany’s University of Luebeck, who has studied the blood module, called these “methodological weaknesses,” that result in “a relative high risk of false-positive results.”

In response, passport analysts use a complicated formula to account for altitude, the athlete’s genetic background, and other environmental factors when parsing passport data. But given the risk of false positives, the analysis is made deliberately insensitive. The current standard is a 1-in1,000 sensitivity, meaning the passport will only result in a false positive in 1 out of 1,000 analyses (over a series of samples, that means the risk of false positive becomes very, very low) but it will also yield many false negatives. A more sensitive analysis—a standard that would yield 1 false positive in 100 tests—would catch more cheaters. Testers may use this standard when deciding which athletes to target with drug tests, but it is the 1-in-1,000 sensitivity that is used to enforce doping bans. Since 2011, three cyclists have challenged the accuracy of the blood module in front of the Court of Arbitration for sport, and in each case the court upheld the cyclists’ bans.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...d-biking/What-is-the-Biological-Passport.html

 

[Granville57]

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...d-biking/What-is-the-Biological-Passport.html

The blood sample is cooled and then rushed to a testing lab for analysis. If samples aren’t analyzed within 36 hours of collection they become useless. (This has made testing in places like East Africa, which is far from all of WADA’s labs, quite a challenge.)

Huh.

 

[thehog]

Huh.

You got it. And the constant returning to and from altitude would make it a very hard passport to bring a case against.

Except say JTL who only has his first passport test in late September and didn't get the advantage of building a screwy profile like the rest of Sky.

A very good explanation here on youtube of Armstrong profile explaining the use of altitude to mask a bag/EPO/CO doping:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fck_OZDBE_o&sns=em

And a nice comparison to Wiggins blood profile which looks a lot like Armstrong's:

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/archive/wiggins-vs-armstrong-blood-values__o_t__t_3430.html

I hate to say it but Bradley's result from the 2nd Tour rest day looks funny. Hemoglobin should fall during the Tour but his rose. Here's whatantidoping expert Michael Ashenden had to say about Floyd Landis' hemoglobin results from the 2006 Tour:

"Going from 15.5 to 16.1 (in hemoglobin) is not that unusual when not competing," Ashenden said by phone from Australia. "But it is very unusual to see an increase after a hard week of cycling. You’d expect it to be the reverse. You’d expect that to fall in a clean athlete. An increase like this in the midst of the Tour de France would be highly, highly unlikely.

"There’s nothing where I could point to one value and say, ‘This guy definitely doped.’ But it raises red flags for me. I would definitely recommend to anti-doping authorities that an athlete presenting these values should be target-tested for blood doping."

Wiggins' hemoglobin result rose from about 14.4 on the first rest day to about 15.2 on the second rest day.

Apologies wouldn't be complete without a statement from Vaughters which is contradictory to what is presented:

"Brad is an exceptionally talented athlete and it was great to see him do so well in the Tour de France. He’s always been an outspoken advocate of clean cycling. He requested that we release his results after the Tour and his decision makes me and the entire team proud," said Jonathan Vaughters, CEO of Slipstream Sports.

The results of the testing noted that, "the trend during the 2009 Giro d'Italia and the 2009 Tour de France was downward, indicating a drop in blood parameters over the course of each race," an encouraging sign that professional cycling may be making a transition to cleaner times.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-values-point-to-cleaner-peloton

 

[happychappy]

 

[SeriousSam]

lol. thats now how you spell badzhilla tho

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I wonder if the teams being fielded for Wiggins and Froome are constructed based on relationships between the riders selected or not. If Wiggo goes will he get a couple of riders loyal to him or does Froome have more say / weight in terms of who gets selected.

Froome was quite clearly smacking Wiggo in the 2012 climbs, but Wiggo buried Froome in that final TT.

OGE is talking about Wiggo.
If Alonso got his act together before / by the Tour and both Wiggo and Froome are there, we might see some real efforts.

I'd like a power meter free, radio free Tour. Let's see real racing and may the best prepared rider win.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

And Froome has turned into one of the most unlikeable characters I've seen in some time. Wiggo is no treasure, especially when he starts going on about ****ers and "fruit 'n" stuff. But at least Wiggo seems honest and to have a basic respect for others - mostly.

Wow.

Short memory some people must have.

Please point out any evidence of Froome suggesting someone should suck him off because they have a posh mouth (voice?).
Please point out Froome worshipping Lance in the media, villifying Landis or putting the general public down (your w*nkers pass).
Please point out where Froome is withholding Tour winnings bonuses from riders that effectively won the race for him.

What is it that Froome has done exactly, that is so repulsive.

Good effing grief.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I wonder if the teams being fielded for Wiggins and Froome are constructed based on relationships between the riders selected or not. If Wiggo goes will he get a couple of riders loyal to him or does Froome have more say / weight in terms of who gets selected.

Froome was quite clearly smacking Wiggo in the 2012 climbs, but Wiggo buried Froome in that final TT.

OGE is talking about Wiggo.
If Alonso got his act together before / by the Tour and both Wiggo and Froome are there, we might see some real efforts.

I'd like a power meter free, radio free Tour. Let's see real racing and may the best prepared rider win.

The Dauphine team is certainly Froome's inner-circle and most likely to ride the Tour, with one or two from the Suisse tea. I seriously doubt Wiggins will start, I think Froome will veto it, if he possibly can. No Eisel, and him as a experienced Road captiain is what the shambles of a Sky team lacked last year.

Then Wiggins to OGE, personally I think that's a great move, linking up with the Yates brother's, who are both precocious talents.

 

[Tinman]

Then Wiggins to OGE, personally I think that's a great move, linking up with the Yates brother's, who are both precocious talents.

Wiggins to OGE is like an old world pommy crim to the new colony.

 

[Benotti69]

Then Wiggins to OGE, personally I think that's a great move, linking up with the Yates brother's, who are both precocious talents.

Wiggin's has really shown himself as the perfect cyclist most riders would like to aspire too......

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Wiggins to OGE is like an old world pommy crim to the new colony.

Sir Wiggo on his way...

Fresh-shaven.

 

[JimmyFingers]

And yet again the debate degenerates into nonsense

 

[Benotti69]

And yet again the debate degenerates into nonsense

Your contributions are so elevated............

 

[Will Carter]

You got it. And the constant returning to and from altitude would make it a very hard passport to bring a case against.

Except say JTL who only has his first passport test in late September and didn't get the advantage of building a screwy profile like the rest of Sky.

A very good explanation here on youtube of Armstrong profile explaining the use of altitude to mask a bag/EPO/CO doping:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fck_OZDBE_o&sns=em

And a nice comparison to Wiggins blood profile which looks a lot like Armstrong's:

http://justcycling.myfastforum.org/archive/wiggins-vs-armstrong-blood-values__o_t__t_3430.html



Apologies wouldn't be complete without a statement from Vaughters which is contradictory to what is presented:



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-values-point-to-cleaner-peloton

Well if you look at the graph TECHNICALLY Vaughters is right - the trend line shows a downward slope (as it does on all of the graphs) even though there is that spike. Does anyone know which day that corresponds to in the Tour? ie flat or mountain, or a few days after (I will look it up but I'm sure someone on here will know the info and post it quicker than I can find it )

 

[the sceptic]

And yet again the debate degenerates into nonsense

what debate?

 

[thehog]

Well if you look at the graph TECHNICALLY Vaughters is right - the trend line shows a downward slope (as it does on all of the graphs) even though there is that spike. Does anyone know which day that corresponds to in the Tour? ie flat or mountain, or a few days after (I will look it up but I'm sure someone on here will know the info and post it quicker than I can find it )

The rest day.

 

[sniper]

The rest day.

What a coincidence!