Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[hiero2]

I thought the topic was "Sky", and the discussion is in the clinic because that's where the discussion needed to have room to go. The topic is not necessarily "Sky Doping".

The magical gains spoken about with regards to the bike will be used to explain why a d-grade pro can out climb the pro peloton. The gullible British public fall for super Daves bs once more.

Froomey can't be a cheat - it's his new bike designed by a car company that made him win. Go Dave, you're the greatest sporting manager the world has ever seen, how you can motivate and manage people to perform far above their normal performance is astounding.
. . .

I concur that discussion of marginal gains is on-topic, not off. Especially as it fits the behavior pattern that some have discerned as hmmmm - misleading? misdirecting? lieing?

Don't take me as agreeing with the belief that Sky is lieing. I don't agree. But I do agree it could be seen that way, and thus discussion of any aspects of same is part of the discussion, as it is part of the behavior pattern.

. . .
I bet super Dave also promises both Froome and Brad the leadership for the Tour and leaves it to his staff to sort out again.

Two Sky riders in 2012 Tour winner Bradley Wiggins and runner-up Chris Froome have previously stood on the final podium in Paris and, you never know, the disappointment of missing a shot at the Giro just may serve as added motivation for Porte, who is considered much more than a super domestique.

“That would be a dream but I know we’re going there for Chris and that makes sense,” he said. “I’m looking forward to the Tour. We’ve got a good team so hopefully I won’t have to sacrifice until a little bit later this year.”

I want a Sky 1-2-3 in Paris. The Internet will burn.

Oh, yes. It would, it would indeed.

You know, given the news coverage and interviews w/ Froome and Wiggins this year, a manipulative style of understatement appears to be par for the course for Brailsford management. Don't overestimate the significance of the word manipulative - all management is manipulative. Has to be. But, one method is to knowingly let, or even encourage, people to believe something to be true that in essence is not. I think we have a former Brit rider who posts here who could speak to this - and I think they would agree. It seems like Sky is pretty good at this sort of management style. Personally, I put this style in my "dirty tricks" column.

I also still think Sky is relatively clean, and has been. One of the problems cycling and anti-doping efforts face is that the products are not necessarily black and white, either in detection or in use. But I've said that before, in other words. So you guys probably already know I think that way. I also think Sky, like others, have been or are willing to indulge in grey-area products. Perhaps even stuff that "isn't illegal" - yet. This latest painkiller product is a perfect example. You notice this "style" also fits with the management behavior of not being absolutely transparent.

It is even possible, and possibly even likely, that the Sky management crew do not realize they mislead people through misdirection. It is certainly in the realm of typical human behavior to not be all that aware of what another person is thinking. Or to sufficiently care. I don't know any of the players. Like you, I just know what I read in the news. So, who knows - but I do think there is a consistency in the pattern that emerges.

 

[The Hitch]

Froomey can't be a cheat - it's his new bike designed by a car company that made him win. .

Well team Alonso now have their excuse for when Sagan or whoever becomes a mountain goat.

Though maybe not at the tour.

 

[bobbins]

Team sky are off on a trip around the roads of Yorkshire checking the Tours first couple of stages.

Froomes with them. Brad didn't get invited.

Make of that what you will.

If Brad doesn't get a ride I can't see the British public being very understanding.

Unless it's explained it's because they haven't for a new super fast bike in his size yet.

 

[Ferminal]

Probably still celebrating his California win?

 

[Archibald]

Team sky are off on a trip around the roads of Yorkshire checking the Tours first couple of stages.

Froomes with them. Brad didn't get invited.

Make of that what you will.

If Brad doesn't get a ride I can't see the British public being very understanding.

Unless it's explained it's because they haven't for a new super fast bike in his size yet.

re-occurence of the old knee injury, innit...

It is even possible, and possibly even likely, that the Sky management crew do not realize they mislead people through misdirection. It is certainly in the realm of typical human behavior to not be all that aware of what another person is thinking. Or to sufficiently care. I don't know any of the players. Like you, I just know what I read in the news. So, who knows - but I do think there is a consistency in the pattern that emerges.

makes sense, especially when you factor in a certain amount of arrogance

 

[King Boonen]

I wouldn't read too much into wiggo not being there. Technically they are local roads for him and he has no doubt ridden them many times. He's also just off his Cali win so is probably on a slightly different "programme" to the rest of the squad...

 

[Catwhoorg]

I wouldn't read too much into wiggo not being there. Technically they are local roads for him and he has no doubt ridden them many times. He's also just off his Cali win so is probably on a slightly different "programme" to the rest of the squad...

Ah "the Beer" program.

 

[meat puppet]

hey, a program by any other name would still be that!

#letwiggoride

 

[King Boonen]

Ah "the Beer" program.

The Blood and Epo Everywhere Rider programme?

hey, a program by any other name would still be that!

#letwiggoride

I read that as Le Twiggo ride

 

[Tinman]

I want a Sky 1-2-3 in Paris. The Internet will burn.

If Brainsford has balls he selects Sire Brad. A ****fight will make Rupert sell papers again, restore tv ad revenues, and most of all will pave the way for Brainsford to create a new English hero. Existing ego's have taken the limelight away from Brainsford, and some decent infighting will return the limelight back to the master to create the next chapter in marginal gains.

 

[del1962]

If Brainsford has balls he selects Sire Brad. A ****fight will make Rupert sell papers again, restore tv ad revenues, and most of all will pave the way for Brainsford to create a new English hero. Existing ego's have taken the limelight away from Brainsford, and some decent infighting will return the limelight back to the master to create the next chapter in marginal gains.

Not anywhere near as much as success (or a fight within) of the England football team

 

[lemoogle]

If Brainsford has balls he selects Sire Brad. A ****fight will make Rupert sell papers again, restore tv ad revenues, and most of all will pave the way for Brainsford to create a new English hero. Existing ego's have taken the limelight away from Brainsford, and some decent infighting will return the limelight back to the master to create the next chapter in marginal gains.

I know right, with wiggo as well, they can have a legit 1-2 without having to worry about the whole " why is this domestique dropping everyone like flies" reaction

 

[Benotti69]

That Froome and Porte both rocked up the Madone faster than Armstrong to me means that Sky are running the program.

If Sky were running a clean team with some riders doing their own thing, well they would have to drop Froome and Porte, wouldn't they, but they wont because this is a Sky run program and there is no shadow of doubt in my mind that Sky are dirty like the rest.

How will Brailsford explain this one? Will this July be closed press conferences? Are they drawing up a black list right now?

 

[blackcat]

That Froome and Porte both rocked up the Madone faster than Armstrong to me means that Sky are running the program.

If Sky were running a clean team with some riders doing their own thing, well they would have to drop Froome and Porte, wouldn't they, but they wont because this is a Sky run program and there is no shadow of doubt in my mind that Sky are dirty like the rest.

How will Brailsford explain this one? Will this July be closed press conferences? Are they drawing up a black list right now?

feel sorry for JTL he was a good rider, and a good doper, but just not quite good enough in both to be protected.

if he could only have been as good as Wiggo.

but i still reckon, the best climber Sky never had is Jamie Burrow. He could still drop Froome-dawg if they got him on the program

 

[DirtyWorks]

How will Brailsford explain this one? Will this July be closed press conferences? Are they drawing up a black list right now?

He'll be too busy planning the winner's party at the grand departe to care. Cookson will be there. Just like old times!

I don't know that Brailsford is so good at making a good inter-team drama. Sir Brad does not seem like a reliable actor too.

Everyone would win if Sky could keep Brad on script.

 

[DirtyWorks]

feel sorry for JTL he was a good rider, and a good doper, but just not quite good enough in both to be protected.

I still wonder how JTL got the knife in the back. McQuaid? Verbruggen? Someone else at the UCI? "Fired" by Sky?

 

[deviant]

I still wonder how JTL got the knife in the back. McQuaid? Verbruggen? Someone else at the UCI? "Fired" by Sky?

...or maybe he just doped and got caught.

Seriously....happens all the time in cycling.

I know that doesnt fit in to the 'Brailsford is the dark overlord of cycling' narrative but it might just be true!

 

[thehog]

I still wonder how JTL got the knife in the back. McQuaid? Verbruggen? Someone else at the UCI? "Fired" by Sky?

JTL was stuffed because it was leaked that he had a letter.

Letters go out all year. It appears most of the time they are explained away and no one is the wiser.

 

[Benotti69]

I still wonder how JTL got the knife in the back. McQuaid? Verbruggen? Someone else at the UCI? "Fired" by Sky?

JTL was a parting shot from McQuaid. McQuaid obviously wants to stay in sport so didn't open the whole box of worms.......

 

[DirtyWorks]

...or maybe he just doped and got caught.

Seriously....happens all the time in cycling.

I know that doesnt fit in to the 'Brailsford is the dark overlord of cycling' narrative but it might just be true!

Where are these WT positives that happen all the time?

 

[blackcat]

JTL was a parting shot from McQuaid. McQuaid obviously wants to stay in sport so didn't open the whole box of worms.......

cant get JV get JTL

fat Pat and his Paddie brain got a few initials wrong in the name.

acronyms aint the strongest suit of the irish. they arent green painted for starters

 

[DirtyWorks]

Letters go out all year. It appears most of the time they are explained away and no one is the wiser.

If there are so many positive warnings going out, then how is it JTL is the one struck by lightning? How come more letters aren't made public? We all know how bad the sport is at keeping secrets.

No need to reply. I'm probably looking at it too hard.

 

[Benotti69]

cant get JV get JTL

fat Pat and his Paddie brain got a few initials wrong in the name.

acronyms aint the strongest suit of the irish. they arent green painted for starters

No defo aimed at Sky. I guess McQuaid did a lot of 'work' for Sky and then when Cookson threw his hat in the ring, McQuaid felt betrayed by Brailsford. Throwing JTLs anomaly out into the public sphere was taking the knife out of his back and sticking it in Sky's. It is a pity McQuaid didn't do it with Wiggo's values

 

[blackcat]

If there are so many positive warnings going out, then how is it JTL is the one struck by lightning? How come more letters aren't made public? We all know how bad the sport is at keeping secrets.

No need to reply. I'm probably looking at it too hard.

you need to take an anamorphous pov.

just stair thru the bloc. its like one of the visual perceptions where you put your nose on the paper, and keep staring, and pull the paper back, and look thru the picture.

you dont need the details and the nuances to get a better truth on the whole shebang

 

[blackcat]

No defo aimed at Sky. I guess McQuaid did a lot of 'work' for Sky and then when Cookson threw his hat in the ring, McQuaid felt betrayed by Brailsford. Throwing JTLs anomaly out into the public sphere was taking the knife out of his back and sticking it in Sky's. It is a pity McQuaid didn't do it with Wiggo's values

was his son representing JTL?

that mighta been a problem.

inverted oedipus