Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

[quote="King Boonen"

To answer your initial question, No. Tramadol is not on the banned list, I believe it is still being monitored though.[/quote]

Tramadol is not banned.

So, Benotti what rule has he broken? And was it with sky or previously?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

So, Benotti what rule has he broken? And was it with sky or previously?

ughhh
No, he didn't break any rules. However, it does look very bad. Sheesh, these Sky fanbois...

edit: break not broke

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

So, Benotti what rule has he broken? And was it with sky or previously?

ughhh
No, he didn't broke any rules. However, it does look very bad. Sheesh, these Sky fanbois...

Why?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Tramadol is not banned.

So, Benotti what rule has he broken? And was it with sky or previously?

Spudickers, Sky dont play by the rules. How can they when UCI doesn't enforce their own rules and breaks them at will for, I guess, whoever pays the piper picks the tune?

If Tramadol kills pain in order for a rider to ignore that pain and continue with his performance and not suffer the natural drop in performance due to the pain, I believe that is 'enhancement'.

Now if you want to bellow about rules, fire ahead, but UCI doesn't play by the rules.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

So, Benotti what rule has he broken? And was it with sky or previously?

ughhh
No, he didn't break any rules. However, it does look very bad. Sheesh, these Sky fanbois...

Why?

uhm, using Tramadol for a TT while you're not actually hurt

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

So, Benotti what rule has he broken? And was it with sky or previously?

ughhh
No, he didn't break any rules. However, it does look very bad. Sheesh, these Sky fanbois...

Why?

uhm, using Tramadol for a TT while you're not actually hurt

That's not an explanation of why.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

ughhh
No, he didn't break any rules. However, it does look very bad. Sheesh, these Sky fanbois...

Why?

uhm, using Tramadol for a TT while you're not actually hurt

That's not an explanation of why.

Maybe you should have made it more obvious which part of my post you were asking about then? I assumed you wanted clarification about "it does look very bad".

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

ughhh
No, he didn't break any rules. However, it does look very bad. Sheesh, these Sky fanbois...

Why?

uhm, using Tramadol for a TT while you're not actually hurt

That's not an explanation of why.

Maybe you should have made it more obvious which part of my post you were asking about then? I assumed you wanted clarification about "it does look very bad".

That's exactly what I wanted a clarification of. Tramadol is not a banned substance. Any rider can use it as long as they get it from a doctor. No rule has been broken so I fail to see how this can look "bad". Please explain why not breaking the rules is a bad thing.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

That's exactly what I wanted a clarification of. Tramadol is not a banned substance. Any rider can use it as long as they get it from a doctor. No rule has been broken so I fail to see how this can look "bad". Please explain why not breaking the rules is a bad thing.

If you can't see why a rider using Tramadol only to enhance performance while Tramadol abuse is a known issue in the peloton then I'm afraid I can't help you...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

That's exactly what I wanted a clarification of. Tramadol is not a banned substance. Any rider can use it as long as they get it from a doctor. No rule has been broken so I fail to see how this can look "bad". Please explain why not breaking the rules is a bad thing.

Why is taking a pain killer not a bad thing?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

That's exactly what I wanted a clarification of. Tramadol is not a banned substance. Any rider can use it as long as they get it from a doctor. No rule has been broken so I fail to see how this can look "bad". Please explain why not breaking the rules is a bad thing.

If you can't see why a rider using Tramadol only to enhance performance while Tramadol abuse is a known issue in the peloton then I'm afraid I can't help you...

No and it seems like you can't help yourself. I know the prevailing knowledge in the clinic is Sky are full of dopers, cheat with the backing of national and international federations and some probably even think they have access to amazing, unknown doping products others don't. But if you're going to start moaning about riders doing something that IS NOT AGAINST THE RULES, I'm afraid I'm going to point out how ridiculous that is.

Riders use a vast array of products to enhance performance, some of which are banned and some of which aren't. Complaining about the legal ones is pretty silly. I supposed if someone pops a couple of paracetamol and ibuprofen you'll jump about and say how that looks really bad as well?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

No and it seems like you can't help yourself. I know the prevailing knowledge in the clinic is Sky are full of dopers, cheat with the backing of national and international federations and some probably even think they have access to amazing, unknown doping products others don't. But if you're going to start moaning about riders doing something that IS NOT AGAINST THE RULES, I'm afraid I'm going to point out how ridiculous that is.

Riders use a vast array of products to enhance performance, some of which are banned and some of which aren't. Complaining about the legal ones is pretty silly. I supposed if someone pops a couple of paracetamol and ibuprofen you'll jump about and say how that looks really bad as well?

We don't even know if it happened at Sky (in fact it's very unlikely as Roche has only ridden a couple races for Sky) trying to make this all about sky

Tramadol abuse is a problem. Many teams, riders and authorities acknowledge this. How can you defend it?

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

That's exactly what I wanted a clarification of. Tramadol is not a banned substance. Any rider can use it as long as they get it from a doctor. No rule has been broken so I fail to see how this can look "bad". Please explain why not breaking the rules is a bad thing.

If you can't see why a rider using Tramadol only to enhance performance while Tramadol abuse is a known issue in the peloton then I'm afraid I can't help you...

No and it seems like you can't help yourself. I know the prevailing knowledge in the clinic is Sky are full of dopers, cheat with the backing of national and international federations and some probably even think they have access to amazing, unknown doping products others don't. But if you're going to start moaning about riders doing something that IS NOT AGAINST THE RULES, I'm afraid I'm going to point out how ridiculous that is.

Riders use a vast array of products to enhance performance, some of which are banned and some of which aren't. Complaining about the legal ones is pretty silly. I supposed if someone pops a couple of paracetamol and ibuprofen you'll jump about and say how that looks really bad as well?

in the short time i've been on here i've picked up a vibe. sky bad, bad bad bad, naughty bad sky, evil, no reason, i'm crazy, crazy paranoid, sky bad.

or something like that.

p.s. i'm british but not really xenophobic or particularly tubthumping, nor a particular fan of any team per se. but the sky haters on here are what the kids would call cray cray.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

That's exactly what I wanted a clarification of. Tramadol is not a banned substance. Any rider can use it as long as they get it from a doctor. No rule has been broken so I fail to see how this can look "bad". Please explain why not breaking the rules is a bad thing.

If you can't see why a rider using Tramadol only to enhance performance while Tramadol abuse is a known issue in the peloton then I'm afraid I can't help you...

No and it seems like you can't help yourself. I know the prevailing knowledge in the clinic is Sky are full of dopers, cheat with the backing of national and international federations and some probably even think they have access to amazing, unknown doping products others don't. But if you're going to start moaning about riders doing something that IS NOT AGAINST THE RULES, I'm afraid I'm going to point out how ridiculous that is.

Riders use a vast array of products to enhance performance, some of which are banned and some of which aren't. Complaining about the legal ones is pretty silly. I supposed if someone pops a couple of paracetamol and ibuprofen you'll jump about and say how that looks really bad as well?

in the short time i've been on here i've picked up a vibe. sky bad, bad bad bad, naughty bad sky, evil, no reason, i'm crazy, crazy paranoid, sky bad.

or something like that.

p.s. i'm british but not really xenophobic or particularly tubthumping, nor a particular fan of any team per se. but the sky haters on here are what the kids would call cray cray.

You have not read enough of the sky related threads and have no knowledge of the history of the sport and its doping. Otherwise you are trolling.

Sky lied. Sky do things with their riders that they cant or wont explain. Do some research.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

No and it seems like you can't help yourself. I know the prevailing knowledge in the clinic is Sky are full of dopers, cheat with the backing of national and international federations and some probably even think they have access to amazing, unknown doping products others don't. But if you're going to start moaning about riders doing something that IS NOT AGAINST THE RULES, I'm afraid I'm going to point out how ridiculous that is.

Riders use a vast array of products to enhance performance, some of which are banned and some of which aren't. Complaining about the legal ones is pretty silly. I supposed if someone pops a couple of paracetamol and ibuprofen you'll jump about and say how that looks really bad as well?

We don't even know if it happened at Sky (in fact it's very unlikely as Roche has only ridden a couple races for Sky) trying to make this all about sky

Tramadol abuse is a problem. Many teams, riders and authorities acknowledge this. How can you defend this?

You're in the Sky thread so don't be surprised is someone makes a general comment about them when addressing a comment to try and keep things vaguely on topic.

I'm not saying it is good or bad, I think trying to bring ethics into professional sports is ridiculous. I'm saying that it is not against the rules (so it can't be used to imply there would be other types of doping going on) and other than that it should be between him and his doctor.

So what is "very bad" about it? Just the fact that he is using a pain killer? That's been going on since pain killers were discovered and unless you're going to drag up a load of research to show that low use tramadol in professional athletes is a serious health concern I'm failing to see what it is, apart from possibly implying that because he does this he'll no doubt fill himself full of illegal dope too?

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

That's exactly what I wanted a clarification of. Tramadol is not a banned substance. Any rider can use it as long as they get it from a doctor. No rule has been broken so I fail to see how this can look "bad". Please explain why not breaking the rules is a bad thing.

If you can't see why a rider using Tramadol only to enhance performance while Tramadol abuse is a known issue in the peloton then I'm afraid I can't help you...

No and it seems like you can't help yourself. I know the prevailing knowledge in the clinic is Sky are full of dopers, cheat with the backing of national and international federations and some probably even think they have access to amazing, unknown doping products others don't. But if you're going to start moaning about riders doing something that IS NOT AGAINST THE RULES, I'm afraid I'm going to point out how ridiculous that is.

Riders use a vast array of products to enhance performance, some of which are banned and some of which aren't. Complaining about the legal ones is pretty silly. I supposed if someone pops a couple of paracetamol and ibuprofen you'll jump about and say how that looks really bad as well?

in the short time i've been on here i've picked up a vibe. sky bad, bad bad bad, naughty bad sky, evil, no reason, i'm crazy, crazy paranoid, sky bad.

or something like that.

p.s. i'm british but not really xenophobic or particularly tubthumping, nor a particular fan of any team per se. but the sky haters on here are what the kids would call cray cray.

And posters like martinvickers and joachimp are the voices of reason?

people hate sky for a reason. They started a new doping arms race and made a joke of the sport again.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

No and it seems like you can't help yourself. I know the prevailing knowledge in the clinic is Sky are full of dopers, cheat with the backing of national and international federations and some probably even think they have access to amazing, unknown doping products others don't. But if you're going to start moaning about riders doing something that IS NOT AGAINST THE RULES, I'm afraid I'm going to point out how ridiculous that is.

Riders use a vast array of products to enhance performance, some of which are banned and some of which aren't. Complaining about the legal ones is pretty silly. I supposed if someone pops a couple of paracetamol and ibuprofen you'll jump about and say how that looks really bad as well?

We don't even know if it happened at Sky (in fact it's very unlikely as Roche has only ridden a couple races for Sky) trying to make this all about sky

Tramadol abuse is a problem. Many teams, riders and authorities acknowledge this. How can you defend this?

You're in the Sky thread so don't be surprised is someone makes a general comment about them when addressing a comment to try and keep things vaguely on topic.

I'm not saying it is good or bad, I think trying to bring ethics into professional sports is ridiculous. I'm saying that it is not against the rules (so it can't be used to imply there would be other types of doping going on) and other than that it should be between him and his doctor.

So what is "very bad" about it? Just the fact that he is using a pain killer? That's been going on since pain killers were discovered and unless you're going to drag up a load of research to show that low use tramadol in professional athletes is a serious health concern I'm failing to see what it is, apart from possibly implying that because he does this he'll no doubt fill himself full of illegal dope too?

Nico Roche admits to taking tramadol to enhance a TT performance. This is ok?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

You're in the Sky thread so don't be surprised is someone makes a general comment about them when addressing a comment to try and keep things vaguely on topic.

I'm not saying it is good or bad, I think trying to bring ethics into professional sports is ridiculous. I'm saying that it is not against the rules (so it can't be used to imply there would be other types of doping going on) and other than that it should be between him and his doctor.

So what is "very bad" about it? Just the fact that he is using a pain killer? That's been going on since pain killers were discovered and unless you're going to drag up a load of research to show that low use tramadol in professional athletes is a serious health concern I'm failing to see what it is, apart from possibly implying that because he does this he'll no doubt fill himself full of illegal dope too?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tramado ... ng-peloton

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Nico Roche admits to taking tramadol to enhance a TT performance. This is ok?

It's not illegal so it's ok. It does not matter if WADA and UCI think it is a really big issue because it's not illegal

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

No and it seems like you can't help yourself. I know the prevailing knowledge in the clinic is Sky are full of dopers, cheat with the backing of national and international federations and some probably even think they have access to amazing, unknown doping products others don't. But if you're going to start moaning about riders doing something that IS NOT AGAINST THE RULES, I'm afraid I'm going to point out how ridiculous that is.

Riders use a vast array of products to enhance performance, some of which are banned and some of which aren't. Complaining about the legal ones is pretty silly. I supposed if someone pops a couple of paracetamol and ibuprofen you'll jump about and say how that looks really bad as well?

We don't even know if it happened at Sky (in fact it's very unlikely as Roche has only ridden a couple races for Sky) trying to make this all about sky

Tramadol abuse is a problem. Many teams, riders and authorities acknowledge this. How can you defend this?

You're in the Sky thread so don't be surprised is someone makes a general comment about them when addressing a comment to try and keep things vaguely on topic.

I'm not saying it is good or bad, I think trying to bring ethics into professional sports is ridiculous. I'm saying that it is not against the rules (so it can't be used to imply there would be other types of doping going on) and other than that it should be between him and his doctor.

So what is "very bad" about it? Just the fact that he is using a pain killer? That's been going on since pain killers were discovered and unless you're going to drag up a load of research to show that low use tramadol in professional athletes is a serious health concern I'm failing to see what it is, apart from possibly implying that because he does this he'll no doubt fill himself full of illegal dope too?

Nico Roche admits to taking tramadol to enhance a TT performance. This is ok?

Please see the bolded section.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Nico Roche admits to taking tramadol to enhance a TT performance. This is ok?

Please see the bolded section.

Are performance-enhancing products OK in your opinion?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Nico Roche admits to taking tramadol to enhance a TT performance. This is ok?

Please see the bolded section.

Are performance-enhancing products OK in your opinion?

please see the bolded section in the post you removed. OK implies an ethical or moral judgement.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

No and it seems like you can't help yourself. I know the prevailing knowledge in the clinic is Sky are full of dopers, cheat with the backing of national and international federations and some probably even think they have access to amazing, unknown doping products others don't. But if you're going to start moaning about riders doing something that IS NOT AGAINST THE RULES, I'm afraid I'm going to point out how ridiculous that is.

Riders use a vast array of products to enhance performance, some of which are banned and some of which aren't. Complaining about the legal ones is pretty silly. I supposed if someone pops a couple of paracetamol and ibuprofen you'll jump about and say how that looks really bad as well?

We don't even know if it happened at Sky (in fact it's very unlikely as Roche has only ridden a couple races for Sky) trying to make this all about sky

Tramadol abuse is a problem. Many teams, riders and authorities acknowledge this. How can you defend this?

You're in the Sky thread so don't be surprised is someone makes a general comment about them when addressing a comment to try and keep things vaguely on topic.

I'm not saying it is good or bad, I think trying to bring ethics into professional sports is ridiculous. I'm saying that it is not against the rules (so it can't be used to imply there would be other types of doping going on) and other than that it should be between him and his doctor.

So what is "very bad" about it? Just the fact that he is using a pain killer? That's been going on since pain killers were discovered and unless you're going to drag up a load of research to show that low use tramadol in professional athletes is a serious health concern I'm failing to see what it is, apart from possibly implying that because he does this he'll no doubt fill himself full of illegal dope too?

Nico Roche admits to taking tramadol to enhance a TT performance. This is ok?

Please see the bolded section.

Nothing to do with ethics it is to do with mentality and culture of riders and UCI. Riders and teams are always looking for performance enhancement and will take anything and everything they think can help and cannot be detected. Roche admitted to Tramadol andL-Carnitine, but what else is he taking? Why stop at those 2?

 

[TailWindHome]

Re: Re:

Why stop at those 2?

Fundamentally, because not stopping there breaks the rules and is doping/cheating.
That's why the rules exist.

Whether you think Roche has crossed that line is a separate discussion.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Nothing to do with ethics it is to do with mentality and culture of riders and UCI. Riders and teams are always looking for performance enhancement and will take anything and everything they think can help and cannot be detected. Roche admitted to Tramadol andL-Carnitine, but what else is he taking? Why stop at those 2?

He will, like almost everyone else, be taking whatever he can that will give him an edge within the rules (and maybe beyond, who knows).

Why stop at those two? Because they are not banned? The implication that he'll happily take anything, banned or not, just because he has taken tramadol, is akin to saying that I'm likely to use steroids just because I took a couple of ibuprofen a day after a really long ride.

Whether he should or not is an ethical and moral discussion.