Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Singer01]

Re:

the only thing Brailsfraud is good at is saying a lot of things that mean nothing. Kind of like David Brent I have no idea how he managed to con himself into a leadership position.

it clearly isn't the only thing is it? whatever you think of his methods his 2 projects have been phenomenally successful.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

the only thing Brailsfraud is good at is saying a lot of things that mean nothing. Kind of like David Brent I have no idea how he managed to con himself into a leadership position.

it clearly isn't the only thing is it? whatever you think of his methods his 2 projects have been phenomenally successful.

The story is pretty similar across the board.
Brailsfraud, Guardiola, Riis, Ivan Lendl, Joachim Low, Frank Rijkaard, Toni Nadal, Boris Becker, Vicente Del Bosque, Luis Aragones, Johan Bruyneel, you name them.
Not necessarily bright managerial talents, but nonetheless massively successful in their respective branch of prosport.
Frank Rijkaard is a great example. Won the Champions League with Barca right when Fuentes' business was peaking (and we know Barca was using his services). Even his biggest fans wouldn't argue that Frank is a managerial talent.
Aragones is another great example. Was wasting one great generation of Spanish soccer players after the other. Was about to go down as one of the worst managers ever in charge of the Spanish national squad. Suddenly, in the middle of the Fuentes-goes-soccer-era, his team is unbeatable. The fact that Del Bosque subsequently also won European and World Championship with Spain underscores that Luis Aragones had very little (if anything) to do with Spain's sudden succes.

Point being: most of these guys, Brailsford included, just get in at the right time and place.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Chris Carmichael was even more successful, right?

Right!?

 

[Tommy79]

Re: Re:

the only thing Brailsfraud is good at is saying a lot of things that mean nothing. Kind of like David Brent I have no idea how he managed to con himself into a leadership position.

it clearly isn't the only thing is it? whatever you think of his methods his 2 projects have been phenomenally successful.

The story is pretty similar across the board.
Brailsfraud, Guardiola, Riis, Ivan Lendl, Joachim Low, Frank Rijkaard, Toni Nadal, Boris Becker, Vicente Del Bosque, Luis Aragones, Johan Bruyneel, you name them.
Not necessarily bright managerial talents, but nonetheless massively successful in their respective branch of prosport.
Frank Rijkaard is a great example. Won the Champions League with Barca right when Fuentes' business was peaking (and we know Barca was using his services). Even his biggest fans wouldn't argue that Frank is a managerial talent.
Aragones is another great example. Was wasting one great generation of Spanish soccer players after the other. Was about to go down as one of the worst managers ever in charge of the Spanish national squad. Suddenly, in the middle of the Fuentes-goes-soccer-era, his team is unbeatable. The fact that Del Bosque subsequently also won European and World Championship with Spain underscores that Luis Aragones had very little (if anything) to do with Spain's sudden succes.

Point being: most of these guys, Brailsford included, just get in at the right time and place.

Saying people more successful than you were just in the right place at the right time is something people normally say to justify their own under achieving life.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

the only thing Brailsfraud is good at is saying a lot of things that mean nothing. Kind of like David Brent I have no idea how he managed to con himself into a leadership position.

it clearly isn't the only thing is it? whatever you think of his methods his 2 projects have been phenomenally successful.

The story is pretty similar across the board.
Brailsfraud, Guardiola, Riis, Ivan Lendl, Joachim Low, Frank Rijkaard, Toni Nadal, Boris Becker, Vicente Del Bosque, Luis Aragones, Johan Bruyneel, you name them.
Not necessarily bright managerial talents, but nonetheless massively successful in their respective branch of prosport.
Frank Rijkaard is a great example. Won the Champions League with Barca right when Fuentes' business was peaking (and we know Barca was using his services). Even his biggest fans wouldn't argue that Frank is a managerial talent.
Aragones is another great example. Was wasting one great generation of Spanish soccer players after the other. Was about to go down as one of the worst managers ever in charge of the Spanish national squad. Suddenly, in the middle of the Fuentes-goes-soccer-era, his team is unbeatable. The fact that Del Bosque subsequently also won European and World Championship with Spain underscores that Luis Aragones had very little (if anything) to do with Spain's sudden succes.

Point being: most of these guys, Brailsford included, just get in at the right time and place.

Saying people more successful than you were just in the right place at the right time is something people normally say to justify their own under achieving life.

Typically though, the worst underachievers are those who feel the only way they can add any meaning to their sad existence is by basking in the glory of famous people who they will never even meet, nonetheless deluding themselves into believing those triumphs are shared and then defending those triumphs, at all costs, as if they were their own.

 

[Tommy79]

Re: Re:

the only thing Brailsfraud is good at is saying a lot of things that mean nothing. Kind of like David Brent I have no idea how he managed to con himself into a leadership position.

it clearly isn't the only thing is it? whatever you think of his methods his 2 projects have been phenomenally successful.

The story is pretty similar across the board.
Brailsfraud, Guardiola, Riis, Ivan Lendl, Joachim Low, Frank Rijkaard, Toni Nadal, Boris Becker, Vicente Del Bosque, Luis Aragones, Johan Bruyneel, you name them.
Not necessarily bright managerial talents, but nonetheless massively successful in their respective branch of prosport.
Frank Rijkaard is a great example. Won the Champions League with Barca right when Fuentes' business was peaking (and we know Barca was using his services). Even his biggest fans wouldn't argue that Frank is a managerial talent.
Aragones is another great example. Was wasting one great generation of Spanish soccer players after the other. Was about to go down as one of the worst managers ever in charge of the Spanish national squad. Suddenly, in the middle of the Fuentes-goes-soccer-era, his team is unbeatable. The fact that Del Bosque subsequently also won European and World Championship with Spain underscores that Luis Aragones had very little (if anything) to do with Spain's sudden succes.

Point being: most of these guys, Brailsford included, just get in at the right time and place.

Saying people more successful than you were just in the right place at the right time is something people normally say to justify their own under achieving life.

Typically though, the worst underachievers are those who feel the only way they can add any meaning to their sad existence is by basking in the glory of famous people who they will never even meet, nonetheless deluding themselves into believing those triumphs are shared and then defending those triumphs, at all costs, as if they were their own.

Maybe..... but plenty of successful people will still be rabid supporters of a sports team. E.g the Gallaghers supporting Man City to give an example we can all detest.

 

[del1962]

Whats wrong with the Gallaghers supporting Man City, they supported them when Citeh where crap

Edit : I can see why ppl might detest Man C
I can also see why ppl my detest Gallaghers
But I can't see why ppl would detest them for supporting Man C

 

[Tommy79]

Re:

Whats wrong with the Gallaghers supporting Man City, they supported them when Citeh where crap

Edit : I can see why ppl might detest Man C
I can also see why ppl my detest Gallaghers
But I can't see why ppl would detest them for supporting Man C

Ah, I may not have been clear, I have no problem with them supporting Man City. It is them and Man City individually that grate on me.

And I think the Hitch was implying that getting emotionally involved in a sports team says something about you as a person.... it doesn't.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

the only thing Brailsfraud is good at is saying a lot of things that mean nothing. Kind of like David Brent I have no idea how he managed to con himself into a leadership position.

it clearly isn't the only thing is it? whatever you think of his methods his 2 projects have been phenomenally successful.

The story is pretty similar across the board.
Brailsfraud, Guardiola, Riis, Ivan Lendl, Joachim Low, Frank Rijkaard, Toni Nadal, Boris Becker, Vicente Del Bosque, Luis Aragones, Johan Bruyneel, you name them.
Not necessarily bright managerial talents, but nonetheless massively successful in their respective branch of prosport.
Frank Rijkaard is a great example. Won the Champions League with Barca right when Fuentes' business was peaking (and we know Barca was using his services). Even his biggest fans wouldn't argue that Frank is a managerial talent.
Aragones is another great example. Was wasting one great generation of Spanish soccer players after the other. Was about to go down as one of the worst managers ever in charge of the Spanish national squad. Suddenly, in the middle of the Fuentes-goes-soccer-era, his team is unbeatable. The fact that Del Bosque subsequently also won European and World Championship with Spain underscores that Luis Aragones had very little (if anything) to do with Spain's sudden succes.

Point being: most of these guys, Brailsford included, just get in at the right time and place.

being in charge of 2 separate projects, both of which showed clear improvements under his stewardship is not in any way a sign of being in the right place at the right time, whatever you think of brailsford.

 

[sniper]

what separate projects?

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

Whats wrong with the Gallaghers supporting Man City, they supported them when Citeh where crap

Edit : I can see why ppl might detest Man C
I can also see why ppl my detest Gallaghers
But I can't see why ppl would detest them for supporting Man C

I would detest them a lot more if they supported team sky.

 

[del1962]

haha you think I care what you think

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

what separate projects?

he probably means BC (Olympics) track squad (Hayles is one example) and Team Sky kick ass at the Tour in 2012 / 2013 (JTL, Henao? Leinders, de Jongh, etc).

Alas Wiggo 2009 was as strong as Wiggo 2012, so that's taken care of, right?

And Froome 2013 is dodgy as all get out.

The assumption here is that Dave has direct control over the lives of the riders and / or those riders are all squeaky clean.

Neither of which is a believable proposition for me.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

what separate projects?

he probably means BC (Olympics) track squad (Hayles is one example) and Team Sky kick ass at the Tour in 2012 / 2013 (JTL, Henao? Leinders, de Jongh, etc).

Alas Wiggo 2009 was as strong as Wiggo 2012, so that's taken care of, right?

And Froome 2013 is dodgy as all get out.

The assumption here is that Dave has direct control over the lives of the riders and / or those riders are all squeaky clean.

Neither of which is a believable proposition for me.

you are correct, i did meant the track and road teams. the assertion above was that the brailsford was only good at saying things which mean nothing (can't quote directly). i was pointing out that clearly that wasn't the case as he had been in charge of 2 very successful teams. whatever the crazies on here choose to read into that is up to them.
even if he did stumble into it, continuing success is evidence of competence. many a manager has taken over a successful team in any number of sports and turned them into dogsh!t within months, being able to avoid this, even if that was all he had done is evidence of competence.
and even if he is masterminding the greatest doping conspiracy ever, the fact that he has been so successful, and none of his riders have been caught, again is evidence of a very competent person.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

what separate projects?

he probably means BC (Olympics) track squad (Hayles is one example) and Team Sky kick ass at the Tour in 2012 / 2013 (JTL, Henao? Leinders, de Jongh, etc).

Alas Wiggo 2009 was as strong as Wiggo 2012, so that's taken care of, right?

And Froome 2013 is dodgy as all get out.

The assumption here is that Dave has direct control over the lives of the riders and / or those riders are all squeaky clean.

Neither of which is a believable proposition for me.

you are correct, i did meant the track and road teams. the assertion above was that the brailsford was only good at saying things which mean nothing (can't quote directly). i was pointing out that clearly that wasn't the case as he had been in charge of 2 very successful teams. whatever the crazies on here choose to read into that is up to them.
even if he did stumble into it, continuing success is evidence of competence. many a manager has taken over a successful team in any number of sports and turned them into dogsh!t within months, being able to avoid this, even if that was all he had done is evidence of competence.
and even if he is masterminding the greatest doping conspiracy ever, the fact that he has been so successful, and none of his riders have been caught, again is evidence of a very competent person.

...or the success if directly proportional to the budget. Now he may or may not be responsible for the large budget in which case he would get some marks for that...but a lot of schoolboy errors in the team as well...what happens on the ground rarely matches the lingo...

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

what separate projects?

he probably means BC (Olympics) track squad (Hayles is one example) and Team Sky kick ass at the Tour in 2012 / 2013 (JTL, Henao? Leinders, de Jongh, etc).

Alas Wiggo 2009 was as strong as Wiggo 2012, so that's taken care of, right?

And Froome 2013 is dodgy as all get out.

The assumption here is that Dave has direct control over the lives of the riders and / or those riders are all squeaky clean.

Neither of which is a believable proposition for me.

you are correct, i did meant the track and road teams. the assertion above was that the brailsford was only good at saying things which mean nothing (can't quote directly). i was pointing out that clearly that wasn't the case as he had been in charge of 2 very successful teams. whatever the crazies on here choose to read into that is up to them.
even if he did stumble into it, continuing success is evidence of competence. many a manager has taken over a successful team in any number of sports and turned them into dogsh!t within months, being able to avoid this, even if that was all he had done is evidence of competence.
and even if he is masterminding the greatest doping conspiracy ever, the fact that he has been so successful, and none of his riders have been caught, again is evidence of a very competent person.

Its not the greatest doping conspiracy ever. Its just a normal doping conspiracy same as many others.

Doping your athletes to wins while paying doctors to get them through the tests has been pretty routine accross sport for a number of decades now.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yeah the wheel change for Porte kinda flies in the face of his purported brilliance, innit?

 

[Tommy79]

Re:

Yeah the wheel change for Porte kinda flies in the face of his purported brilliance, innit?

Not really, you can poke holes anyone with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

Yeah the wheel change for Porte kinda flies in the face of his purported brilliance, innit?

Not really, you can poke holes anyone with the benefit of hindsight.

no one needed the benefit of hindsight to say that Brailsford is a moron and that marginal gains is a lie

 

[Tommy79]

Re: Re:

Yeah the wheel change for Porte kinda flies in the face of his purported brilliance, innit?

Not really, you can poke holes anyone with the benefit of hindsight.

no one needed the benefit of hindsight to say that Brailsford is a moron and that marginal gains is a lie

Indeed, no need to wait for facts or evidence against them, you can say anything you like.

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

Yeah the wheel change for Porte kinda flies in the face of his purported brilliance, innit?

Not really, you can poke holes anyone with the benefit of hindsight.

no one needed the benefit of hindsight to say that Brailsford is a moron and that marginal gains is a lie

To be fair, Brailsfraud only needs a bunch of morons to believe him.

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

Yeah the wheel change for Porte kinda flies in the face of his purported brilliance, innit?

Not really, you can poke holes anyone with the benefit of hindsight.

no one needed the benefit of hindsight to say that Brailsford is a moron and that marginal gains is a lie

To be fair, Brailsfraud only needs a bunch of morons to believe him.

that's the beauty of having a large following of clueless worshippers. You can get away with everything.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Yeah the wheel change for Porte kinda flies in the face of his purported brilliance, innit?

Not really, you can poke holes anyone with the benefit of hindsight.

no one needed the benefit of hindsight to say that Brailsford is a moron and that marginal gains is a lie

Indeed, no need to wait for facts or evidence against them, you can say anything you like.

Is this a comment on Brailsford?

Yeah the wheel change for Porte kinda flies in the face of his purported brilliance, innit?

Not really, you can poke holes anyone with the benefit of hindsight.

no one needed the benefit of hindsight to say that Brailsford is a moron and that marginal gains is a lie

To be fair, Brailsfraud only needs a bunch of morons to believe him.

that's the beauty of having a large following of clueless worshippers. You can get away with everything.

Its not that large.

 

[The Hitch]

Posted in the Giro thread that DA selected as his favourite rider - lance Armstrong.

Its quite interesting to me that for a team that was allegedly so anti doping and leading the cycling peloton on the anti doping front, pretty much everyone on the team from their TDF victories idolized Lance Armstrong.

Wiggins -biggest Lance fan ever.
Brailsford - modelled his team on Armstrong (even calling it UK Postal) and hired all of Lance's staff.
G Thomas - big Armstrong fan and defender. Complained that USADA should leave Lance alone.
Davide Appolinio - another Lance Armstrong fan.
JTL - another guy who selected Lance as his favourite rider.

There was also that rider, forget which one who after the reasoned decision tweeted something about Lance being a hero and DB made him go on a PR - "actually I hate Lance" Tour the next day.

 

[Tommy79]

Re:

Posted in the Giro thread that DA selected as his favourite rider - lance Armstrong.

Its quite interesting to me that for a team that was allegedly so anti doping and leading the cycling peloton on the anti doping front, pretty much everyone on the team from their TDF victories idolized Lance Armstrong.

Wiggins -biggest Lance fan ever.
Brailsford - modelled his team on Armstrong (even calling it UK Postal) and hired all of Lance's staff.
G Thomas - big Armstrong fan and defender. Complained that USADA should leave Lance alone.
Davide Appolinio - another Lance Armstrong fan.
JTL - another guy who selected Lance as his favourite rider.

There was also that rider, forget which one who after the reasoned decision tweeted something about Lance being a hero and DB made him go on a PR - "actually I hate Lance" Tour the next day.

Yeah, guys who don't dope are going to suck at knowing who is doping.