Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/could-cycling-be-dropped-by-the-bbc-as-it-faces-150m-spending-cuts-200329

But wait. I thought Paul Weller winning the tdf made it Britains national sport?

Sir Paul Weller to you Mr Hitch.

Beeb dropping cycling after Cookson becoming pres, means even the beeb can see nothing has changed in cycling!

 

[TheSpud]

Re: dibble dabble

...........ffs doe's the viability of rapha's business model really impact on whether or

not team sky are dabbling.................?

Of course not. But the belief expressed by so many that Rapha "made a fortune" out of the Sky deal was worth questioning. A lot of people round here tend to just believe things without any evidence, and then choose to ignore the evidence when it contradicts their beliefs.

Best comment on here ever ...

 

[simoni]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/could-cycling-be-dropped-by-the-bbc-as-it-faces-150m-spending-cuts-200329

But wait. I thought Paul Weller winning the tdf made it Britains national sport?

Sir Paul Weller to you Mr Hitch.

Beeb dropping cycling after Cookson becoming pres, means even the beeb can see nothing has changed in cycling!

Not the case. It tells us about the shambles that is the BBC, and public broadcasting in Britain and virtually nothing about cycling.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/could-cycling-be-dropped-by-the-bbc-as-it-faces-150m-spending-cuts-200329

But wait. I thought Paul Weller winning the tdf made it Britains national sport?

Sir Paul Weller to you Mr Hitch.

Beeb dropping cycling after Cookson becoming pres, means even the beeb can see nothing has changed in cycling!

Not the case. It tells us about the shambles that is the BBC, and public broadcasting in Britain and virtually nothing about cycling.

Correct, but that doesn't fit the mantra for many people ...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/could-cycling-be-dropped-by-the-bbc-as-it-faces-150m-spending-cuts-200329

But wait. I thought Paul Weller winning the tdf made it Britains national sport?

Sir Paul Weller to you Mr Hitch.

Beeb dropping cycling after Cookson becoming pres, means even the beeb can see nothing has changed in cycling!

Not the case. It tells us about the shambles that is the BBC, and public broadcasting in Britain and virtually nothing about cycling.

Cycling is still a minority sport. Show us where that has changed? And shows where Cookson has brought in the new changes that mean the Beeb wont have invested in a sport where the winner might be disqualified in a year or 2?

Sorry cycling has an image problem, rightly so and Cookson has tried to change the image without changing the causes of what gives it that image?

No mantra, reality.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Beeb dropping cycling after Cookson becoming pres, means even the beeb can see nothing has changed in cycling!

Time for a reality check people:

The BBC has said it needs to make £150m of cost savings

The BBC has said that £35m of that saving will come from sports rights.

The BBC has not said how much of that rights savings will come from specific sports.

The Comic has taken this story and thrown out there the question: will cycling suffer?

Some have read that question and decided that the answer is yes. Without any evidence at all to support that decision.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Re: Re:

Beeb dropping cycling after Cookson becoming pres, means even the beeb can see nothing has changed in cycling!

Time for a reality check people:

The BBC has said it needs to make £150m of cost savings

The BBC has said that £35m of that saving will come from sports rights.

The BBC has not said how much of that rights savings will come from specific sports.

The Comic has taken this story and thrown out there the question: will cycling suffer?

Some have read that question and decided that the answer is yes. Without any evidence at all to support that decision.

Indeed. It's also completely unrelated to doping so no idea why it is being discussed in the clinic in the first place. I suppose people are bored as it's the off season.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Beeb dropping cycling after Cookson becoming pres, means even the beeb can see nothing has changed in cycling!

Time for a reality check people:

The BBC has said it needs to make £150m of cost savings

The BBC has said that £35m of that saving will come from sports rights.

The BBC has not said how much of that rights savings will come from specific sports.

The Comic has taken this story and thrown out there the question: will cycling suffer?

Some have read that question and decided that the answer is yes. Without any evidence at all to support that decision.

Indeed. It's also completely unrelated to doping so no idea why it is being discussed in the clinic in the first place. I suppose people are bored as it's the off season.

Hush your mouth. Anything that even remotely links cycling and Britain is doping related, didn't you know that?

 

[simoni]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/could-cycling-be-dropped-by-the-bbc-as-it-faces-150m-spending-cuts-200329

But wait. I thought Paul Weller winning the tdf made it Britains national sport?

Sir Paul Weller to you Mr Hitch.

Beeb dropping cycling after Cookson becoming pres, means even the beeb can see nothing has changed in cycling!

Not the case. It tells us about the shambles that is the BBC, and public broadcasting in Britain and virtually nothing about cycling.

Cycling is still a minority sport. Show us where that has changed? And shows where Cookson has brought in the new changes that mean the Beeb wont have invested in a sport where the winner might be disqualified in a year or 2?

Sorry cycling has an image problem, rightly so and Cookson has tried to change the image without changing the causes of what gives it that image?

No mantra, reality.

I haven't the faintest idea where you're come from or are going with this argument. None at all.

 

[oldcrank]

Re: Re:

Rapha made a fortune.

Could someone help me here and quantify what a fortune is in this case? Is a fortune here a couple of hundred thousand pounds or is it millions of pounds? Just how much money do people think the Sky deal made for Rapha and what impact do you think it's had on their bottom line?

Sorry, my friend, I cannot quantify what a fortune is in this case,
but in the words of Mr. Fausto Pinarello: ''We could sponsor four
other profesional teams for the same money, but SKY is the best
in the world and the best with feedback.' So it appears that the benefits
of sponsoring SKY are huge, but perhaps they are difficult to quantify monetarily.
http://www.cyclist.co.uk/pinarello/607/fausto-pinarello-on-aerodynamics-suspension-and-fluoro-paint

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Rapha made a fortune.

Could someone help me here and quantify what a fortune is in this case? Is a fortune here a couple of hundred thousand pounds or is it millions of pounds? Just how much money do people think the Sky deal made for Rapha and what impact do you think it's had on their bottom line?

Sorry, my friend, I cannot quantify what a fortune is in this case,
but in the words of Mr. Fausto Pinarello: ''We could sponsor four
other profesional teams for the same money, but SKY is the best
in the world and the best with feedback.' So it appears that the benefits
of sponsoring SKY are huge, but perhaps they are difficult to quantify monetarily.
http://www.cyclist.co.uk/pinarello/607/fausto-pinarello-on-aerodynamics-suspension-and-fluoro-paint

That's not a very good example. Pinarello outsourced manufacturing to China to increase their margins. Increase in revenues would be down to the frame not longer being made in Italy rather than the "Sky factor".

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

I cannot quantify what a fortune is in this case,
but in the words of Mr. Fausto Pinarello: ''We could sponsor four
other profesional teams for the same money, but SKY is the best
in the world and the best with feedback.' So it appears that the benefits
of sponsoring SKY are huge, but perhaps they are difficult to quantify monetarily.

Pinarello could sponsor four Novo-Nordisk type teams and receive a tiny fraction of the media exposure they get courtesy of Sky. But if you want people to believe your brand is the best in the business, you have to get the best in the business supporting it. Right now - in terms of media exposure, which is very much Tour-driven - Sky is undoubtedly that team. So I'm not quite sure what point you are struggling to make.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

That's not a very good example. Pinarello outsourced manufacturing to China to increase their margins. Increase in revenues would be down to the frame not longer being made in Italy rather than the "Sky factor".

But Pinarello have been outsourcing the manufacture of their frames to China for a long time now, a long time that pre-dates the existence of Sky.

And a reduction in costs does not equate to an increase in revenues. An increase in sales - volume or price or a mix of both - drives an increase in revenue.

Also, nothing in that quote from Pinarello Jnr says that revenues have increased. He merely said that the sponsorship budget could be spent on one Team Sky or four Team No One Ever Heard Ofs.

 

[oldcrank]

Re: Re:

I cannot quantify what a fortune is in this case,
but in the words of Mr. Fausto Pinarello: ''We could sponsor four
other profesional teams for the same money, but SKY is the best
in the world and the best with feedback.' So it appears that the benefits
of sponsoring SKY are huge, but perhaps they are difficult to quantify monetarily.

Pinarello could sponsor four Novo-Nordisk type teams and receive a tiny fraction of the media exposure they get courtesy of Sky. But if you want people to believe your brand is the best in the business, you have to get the best in the business supporting it. Right now - in terms of media exposure, which is very much Tour-driven - Sky is undoubtedly that team. So I'm not quite sure what point you are struggling to make.

Feedback on their products, from the best riders in the world, is also
very important to certain sponsors, but it is difficult to precisely
quantify that benefit in ''bottom line'' terms, my friend.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Feedback on their products, from the best riders in the world, is also
very important to certain sponsors, but it is difficult to precisely
quantify that benefit in ''bottom line'' terms, my friend.

I should imagine Pinarello are gaining more from the feedback Jaguar offers than anything any of Sky's riders have to say. And Pinarello Jnr more or less makes that exact point in the cited interview, if you read it.

Am I to assume that your point is that - with Pinarello as the example - it is difficult to quantity the benefit to Rapha of its Sky deal? This would ignore the point that it is possible to actually quantify the effect the Sky deal had on a portion of Rapha's revenues - the first half of 2013. In other words, there is a clear base upon which to work (whereas with Pinarello we don't even have the company's annual turnover across the length of the Sky deal before we can start plucking numbers out of the air for the benefit of the sponsorship tie up).

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

I cannot quantify what a fortune is in this case,
but in the words of Mr. Fausto Pinarello: ''We could sponsor four
other profesional teams for the same money, but SKY is the best
in the world and the best with feedback.' So it appears that the benefits
of sponsoring SKY are huge, but perhaps they are difficult to quantify monetarily.

Pinarello could sponsor four Novo-Nordisk type teams and receive a tiny fraction of the media exposure they get courtesy of Sky. But if you want people to believe your brand is the best in the business, you have to get the best in the business supporting it. Right now - in terms of media exposure, which is very much Tour-driven - Sky is undoubtedly that team. So I'm not quite sure what point you are struggling to make.

Feedback on their products, from the best riders in the world, is also
very important to certain sponsors, but it is difficult to precisely
quantify that benefit in ''bottom line'' terms, my friend.

This conversation is not clinic material, unless there's a point that has yet to be discussed revolving doping.

Please post comments in applicable threads.

 

[oldcrank]

Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/could-cycling-be-dropped-by-the-bbc-as-it-faces-150m-spending-cuts-200329

But wait. I thought Paul Weller winning the tdf made it Britains national sport?

Not to worry, my friend, Eurosport is stepping up it's cycling coverage!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT1_O4LoPLY

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/could-cycling-be-dropped-by-the-bbc-as-it-faces-150m-spending-cuts-200329

But wait. I thought Paul Weller winning the tdf made it Britains national sport?

Not to worry, my friend, Eurosport is stepping up it's cycling coverage!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT1_O4LoPLY

EuroSport, a Discovery Channel owned channel?! That is awesome! Ripe for Mudoch to relaunch his bid?

Sky, in which Murdoch's News Corporation has a 39% stake, is believed to have joined forces with fellow pay-TV group Discovery Communications to buy the channel that airs Big Brother, Neighbours and Angelina Ballerina.

The offer was one of several for the broadcaster when the second round of bids closed this week. Discovery is understood to be planning to take a 70% stake and Sky the remaining 30%.

The channel would hand both Discovery and Sky a valuable free-to-air platform on which to promote their paid-for content. Under Desmond's ownership the ad breaks have been filled with advertisements for his Daily Express and Daily Star newspapers.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/could-cycling-be-dropped-by-the-bbc-as-it-faces-150m-spending-cuts-200329

But wait. I thought Paul Weller winning the tdf made it Britains national sport?

Not to worry, my friend, Eurosport is stepping up it's cycling coverage!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT1_O4LoPLY

Thats great news, more Carlton Kirby alike commentators who can inform the ill informed on how marginal gains where discovered by Team Sky/British Cycling.

 

[MatParker1711]

Apparently Pinarello has to pay that to keep Sky as Specialised and Trek were throwing money at them. At one point Sky were apparently very close to signing with Trek.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Apparently Pinarello has to pay that to keep Sky as Specialised and Trek were throwing money at them. At one point Sky were apparently very close to signing with Trek.

in summer 2012 there were talks about SKY riding Specy from 2013.
their initial contract was 3 years (2010-11-12) so Pinarello added 1 more year (2013) and it looks the rumors about risking to lose them were true.
they then re-upped for 3 years (2014-15-16) in autumn 2013.

2016 is their last contract year with Pinarello and Kask (for the moment no other renewal news)

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

Apparently Pinarello has to pay that to keep Sky as Specialised and Trek were throwing money at them. At one point Sky were apparently very close to signing with Trek.

That would complete the UKPostal circle. Dagnabit for not happening!!

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Feedback on their products, from the best riders in the world, is also
very important to certain sponsors, but it is difficult to precisely
quantify that benefit in ''bottom line'' terms, my friend.

when the world market has shifted away from the classic italian framebuilders, p'raps the branding of being on the winning rider in july is absolutely vital. Gios and Bianchi sill have a cache, Colnago still have the cache, but that is not selling the frames and the pricepoints and margins. The consolodation of the big producers in China/Taiwan hurts the old family-name firm brands. And makes them vulnerable for the future, and planning for the next decade.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Sky

Maybe Gios is still Italian, but Bianchi isn´t anymore, and they produce in Taiwan too

It has been part of Cycleurope Group, the Swedish company of Grimaldi Industri AB, since May 1997

I would buy a Bianchi Specialissima (like LottoJumbo´s) over a Dogma Pinarello though

 

[Benotti69]

Article :Has Team Sky kept the promises it made on doping?

http://www.stickybottle.com/blogs/opinion-has-team-sky-kept-the-promises-it-made-on-doping/

Launched with big anti doping promises and with its reason for being largely to show what can be done by racing clean, Team Sky has attracted admiration and doubt in equal measure.

As Chris Froome prepares to release the results of his physiological testing, Cillian Kelly of Irish Peloton recalls exactly what the team’s anti doping promises were at the start, and whether it has kept them.


Team Sky’s reaction to the power data debate was summed up nicely by Eoin McDevitt, host of the Irish Times Second Captains podcast.

He said during this year’s Tour de France shortly after Team Sky released a smattering of Froome’s data from his effort on Stage 10:

“Sky argue that their critics use whatever data they want to suit their own agenda and yet Sky’s own idea of full transparency is to do exactly the same thing”

If Brailsford is genuine when he states that the whole point of the team is to try and demonstrate that it is possible to cycle clean and compete at the highest level, Team Sky have set their own agenda and have consistently failed to deliver on it.

In the media, they are held to a higher standard than other teams, but this is of their own making. They have literally asked for this.

During the 2013 Tour de France, Brailsford appeared to lose patience with the constant questioning and issued a challenge to the media:

“Rather than asking us all the time to come up with some creative way to prove that we’re innocent, why couldn’t you… get yourselves together … and you tell me, what would prove it for you, what could we do?

“Get your heads together and come to me and say, well this is what we think we would like in order to prove to you beyond reasonable doubt that we are not doping.”

Considering this very issue is the entire reason the team exists, it’s a wonder why Brailsford appears at such a loss as to how to address it.

It should be his number one priority, every day of his working life.

Given all the commitments that have fallen by the wayside over the years, releasing power data, all of it, seems like a good way to get back on track.

Not bad.

It also points out that Richard Moore already was in bed with Sky from way back and now he is the guy to write about Froome's data due out soon. hahaha!