Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Tonight GT still lost 1:08 to TJ despite being dragged most of the way up the hill by the walking Russian lab experiment Kiryienka, who some might remember as being a TT guy and not a climber...

"Some" might remember Kiryienka as a TT guy and not a climber, but clearly those "some" people don't remember him being the most combative rider not named "Emanuele Sella" in the 2008 Giro, being second on Pampeago and winning comprehensively on Monte Pora from breaks, or him riding Finestre-Sestriere solo to win in 2011, or his GC win in the Route du Sud, being 2nd at the Critérium International cos of his climb to the Col de l'Ospedale, being among the eight or so riders that could stay with the Sky train in the Morzine stage of the 2012 Dauphiné or being Valverde's personal minder through the 2009 Vuelta... Kiryienka can climb.

 

[The Hitch]

He can climb , I agree with that point, but lets take a skim read over your post- Sella 2008, super domestique for Valverde at Caisse 2009, outclimbing Rujano in Giro 2011, riding for Sky now,- the wider point of him being as dodgy as anyone is absolutely valid.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

He can climb , I agree with that point, but lets take a skim read over your post- Sella 2008, super domestique for Valverde at Caisse 2009, outclimbing Rujano in Giro 2011, riding for Sky now,- the wider point of him being as dodgy as anyone is absolutely valid.

I didn't object to the "lab experiment" part of the quote, just to the "he's a TT guy not a climber" part. This isn't a Sky transformation story compared to the guy he was dragging around, whether it be with dodgy teams and around dodgy riders or not, Kiryienka's not really changed his modus operandi at Sky - if anything it's his TT that's improved, not his climbing.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Why would Thomas risk prison time for a one-week stage race?

pro's risk everything.
that's why he's among the few hundreds of pros, and not one of the other tens of thousands of wannabe's.
willingness to take the risk is what defines the pro.

It's one thing to take the risk of a 2-year ban from cycling, and another to take the risk of prison time.

prison time?
is there a precedent for that?
it's not a real risk.

as if remi de gregorio or frank van denbroucke or raimondas rumsas or ricky riccio

only one who, no, two, are willy voet and edita rumsas, well, edita was just held for a while, i suppose in those terms, like millar and remi de gregorio, both... would be qualifying for my gaol metric...


point is, Fuentes, Monzano... no one, no one goes to jail. or gaol

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Tonight GT still lost 1:08 to TJ despite being dragged most of the way up the hill by the walking Russian lab experiment Kiryienka, who some might remember as being a TT guy and not a climber...

"Some" might remember Kiryienka as a TT guy and not a climber, but clearly those "some" people don't remember him being the most combative rider not named "Emanuele Sella" in the 2008 Giro, being second on Pampeago and winning comprehensively on Monte Pora from breaks, or him riding Finestre-Sestriere solo to win in 2011, or his GC win in the Route du Sud, being 2nd at the Critérium International cos of his climb to the Col de l'Ospedale, being among the eight or so riders that could stay with the Sky train in the Morzine stage of the 2012 Dauphiné or being Valverde's personal minder through the 2009 Vuelta... Kiryienka can climb.

did he win the scratch race on the track in 2004 Athens? Or Beijing? or was the scratch only a Worlds race, and he won a points race.

Kiryenka reminds me of Asle Arvesen and Hincapie, and the way he became a super domestique.

They call Stuey Mate, a super domestique and road captain. well.... not compared to the above three riders, Stuey Mate is manifest milquetoast alliterationz

i like his name too, Vasili, or Yasili Kiryenka

 

[Bumeington]

Re: Sky

"All of the guys did well this week and tried really hard for G. That was the plan and everyone gave up their own ambitions to do that. G was just lacking that final 10% to be up there," added Rasch.

Rasch needs a talking to from the sky PR team!

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

he walking Russian lab experiment Kiryienka, who some might remember as being a TT guy and not a climber...

Riding Russian lab experiment woudl sound better. Anyway, I think your memory betrays you. He always had some climbing abilities and in Suisse he wasn't standing against Contador, Quintana or Froome, there were second line contenders so nothing so alaraming about his performance. If he mixed it with them till the end of the stage, then it might be suspicious.

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

Sky's GC man GT gets dropped on a mountain top finish by a couple of Canondale lads and a bunch of others who were crawling up the mountainside. Doesn't really fit in with the narrative that some here would peddle. I guess maybe the Tour de Suisse isn't a big enough race for the team to risk doping? Or maybe there just isn't any data or results to suggest GT has ever doped?

Thomas never was Sky's GC GT man though. Or when was the last time Thomas was leader for Sky at GT? Remind me.

 

[TomLPC]

Re: Re:

Sky's GC man GT gets dropped on a mountain top finish by a couple of Canondale lads and a bunch of others who were crawling up the mountainside. Doesn't really fit in with the narrative that some here would peddle. I guess maybe the Tour de Suisse isn't a big enough race for the team to risk doping? Or maybe there just isn't any data or results to suggest GT has ever doped?

Thomas never was Sky's GC GT man though. Or when was the last time Thomas was leader for Sky at GT? Remind me.

By GT he means Geriant Thomas, sky's designated general classification man in the Tour De Suisse

 

[sniper]

There was some specilation last year that Sky might try to ditch Knaven for being too toxic.
He's one of the two managers for Sky this TdF (Portal the other).
Toxic, but too important to ditch?

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

[quote="bigcog[/url

Good work, keep it up! We believe in Sky!

I think you are going to gutted when the dawgs physiological study is published in a scientific journal.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1904985#p1904985

Considering there is no 2007 data in the study I really don't know how that would be the case. I read some Bike Radar posts who claimed the 2007 data nails it for them that Froome is clean, I assume many will be disappointed.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Kiri comes from Belarus not Russia.

 

[ontheroad]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03zxw1s

Podcast on the tour on BBC radio last night. Go to 11.40 where Brailsford neatly swerved the question and deflected any talk of doping and stated that the talk of motors seemed so ridiculous and he was shocked when the Belgian girl was caught with a motor!!

Also go to 18:00 where it is stated that Sky are going with double glazing on the team cars and taping up the sun roofs in anticipation of another public backlash!!

 

[Robert5091]

Re: Sky

Sky worried about the occasional "golden shower".

 

[thehog]

Re: Sky

Pinot marking it early that it will be a boring Tour...

It wasn’t so much the form of Froome and Quintana that caught Pinot’s attention, as their teams’ strength.

And he said it doesn’t bode well for attacking racing during the Tour. “When you see Sky’s armada — they had four or five riders [in the lead group] — so I don’t think we’ll see many attacks in this Tour.

We saw a battle of teammates, and I can tell you that the teammates of the leaders are very, very strong,” he said. “Whether it’s Movistar or Sky, they set a high tempo all day to reduce the peloton, and no one had fun on the final climbs.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/tour-de-france/pinot-froomes-sky-armada-will-snuff-attacks-at-tour_413507

 

[sniper]

Re: Sky

Pinot marking it early that it will be a boring Tour...

It wasn’t so much the form of Froome and Quintana that caught Pinot’s attention, as their teams’ strength.

And he said it doesn’t bode well for attacking racing during the Tour. “When you see Sky’s armada — they had four or five riders [in the lead group] — so I don’t think we’ll see many attacks in this Tour.

We saw a battle of teammates, and I can tell you that the teammates of the leaders are very, very strong,” he said. “Whether it’s Movistar or Sky, they set a high tempo all day to reduce the peloton, and no one had fun on the final climbs.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/tour-de-france/pinot-froomes-sky-armada-will-snuff-attacks-at-tour_413507

Brailsford 2009 announcing UK Postal:

"Yeah! We pretty much know what it takes to win the Tour – we've done our homework. We know the physiological and psychological requirements as well as what it needs from a team point of view."
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/feb/10/donald-mcrae-dave-brailsford-cycling

 

[Benotti69]

Sky train looks much better than the USPS train ever did.....

 

[thehog]

Re:

Sky train looks much better than the USPS train ever did.....

I don't see how anyone will be able to get a break in the mountains that could be sustained past Sky (& Movistar), its basically going to come down to a w/kg drag race between Froome and Quintana on each MTF.

Throw in the MTT and the race is decided.

Total bore fest for 21 days.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Sky train looks much better than the USPS train ever did.....

Yes but they are different.

Sky ride tactically smart while US Postals wasted energy by being tactically unsmart.

Swart says so.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Sky train looks much better than the USPS train ever did.....

Yes but they are different.

Sky ride tactically smart while US Postals wasted energy by being tactically unsmart.

Swart says so.

Very true, Wiggins and Sky pioneered drafting and having a team share the wind protecting their leader.

Before then, road cycling was very much an individual event. Luckily also, Sky fused science with sport, had not been done before. The term 'Sport Science' did not exist before 2012.

 

[Digger]

Sky as a team haven't quite been as dominant as 2012 - that year was mental! they did a diagram where one rider rode tempo for about 60km. Then another. Then another and then froome took over. That was the year when basso said it's impossible attack because of the speeds sky are riding when people asked why nobody attacks - he looked downcast and said how the hell are we meant to attack when we are barely hanging on, look at our powermeters and see we are pushing out about 500watts...

 

[kwikki]

Basso beaten at his own game.

 

[meat puppet]

Digger: think it was 400w. But nonetheless ridiculous.

 

[kwikki]

Re:

Sky as a team haven't quite been as dominant as 2012 - that year was mental! they did a diagram where one rider rode tempo for about 60km. Then another. Then another and then froome took over. That was the year when basso said it's impossible attack because of the speeds sky are riding when people asked why nobody attacks - he looked downcast and said how the hell are we meant to attack when we are barely hanging on, look at our powermeters and see we are pushing out about 500watts...

Somewhat ironically, and as a completely unintended consequence, you can probably attribute that at least in part to Sky's ZTP.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Sky's GC man GT gets dropped on a mountain top finish by a couple of Canondale lads and a bunch of others who were crawling up the mountainside. Doesn't really fit in with the narrative that some here would peddle. I guess maybe the Tour de Suisse isn't a big enough race for the team to risk doping? Or maybe there just isn't any data or results to suggest GT has ever doped?

You must have missed last years TDF where he climbed PDB faster than Armstrong.

Froome says he knew Ricco was doping in 2008 because his performance was too good but GT's 2015 2nd week made Ricco look like an amateur.

No serious person can say with a straight face that was clean