Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[abc987]

Re: Sky

which makes anti-doping yet again look like nothing more than PR fluff as we saw in the Dr Bonar case and Liz Armistead cases

You do realise that although UKAD messed up the first test, Armistead was caught bang to rights for the test she missed and her whereabouts reporting discrepancy don't you?

How can you tell if Wiggins TUE is invalid without access to his medical history? Of course it's possible that he was using a treatment without having an appropriate medical condition, but you and I have no way of proving that.

 

[B_Ugli]

Re: Sky

I can’t speak for somebody who has asthma but I can speak as someone who has had hayfever each summer for the past 20 years:

1. I pretty much know that from mid May to the end of June I will get hayfever if I am in the UK
2. Typical preventative is cetirizine, eye drops, nasal spray. Cetrizine on a good hayfever day, and all three on a high pollen day
3. If I travel to other areas of Europe during this time, often it’s not as bad as I suffer in the UK.
4. When I raced I used to just think I did bad in the summer, it wasn’t until after I stopped racing in my early 20’s I realised I was getting hayfever for 6 weeks in the summer.

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

I freely admit to enjoying the sweet elixir of schadenfreude.

Where are all those Sky defenders now? Very strangely silent about this news.

I want more of those accusations of us wearing tin foil hats and more demands for plain, common sense empirical evidence.

Still yet to see evidence of wrong doing, they followed the rules set out. We have no right to the medical records of anybody. The treatment was prescribed by a doctor outside the team and the TUE's issued within the rules. It's a bit of a PR headache for Sky but the news cycle being what it is it will eventually fade into the background.

You dont have any issue with the bunch of lies they told?

What else are they lying about?

This is not a PR headache. They have been caught doing what dopers did as Jaksche confirms, using the same drugs Armstrong used and Wiggins only used the injections prior to GT performance and not since? Was he cured of his asthma and pollen allergies?

It is doping if you dont have pollen allergies or asthma bad enough to warrant an injection. So while Sky fans and Wiggins point to doing what the system allows, well it only allows use of substance if you are ill and the use of injections into muscles is not the correct course of treatment! So again this is doping, enabled by a corrupt system, but as Brailsford kept stressing, Sky were different than the past, but he lied. So what else is he lying about?

So again, i repeat, Sky and Wiggins have been caught doping. Yes the anti-doping have accepted the TUEs without proper investigation if Wiggins needed them, which makes anti-doping yet again look like nothing more than PR fluff as we saw in the Dr Bonar case and Liz Armistead cases.

This treatment was recommended by a doctor independent of the team and confidentiality means we will likely never know what condition he was in. Later life onset of allergies is increasingly common and as Wiggins was suffering from allergies as different doctors confirm (WADA had a veto) then this a legitimate if uncommon treatment. There has to be allowances within any anti doping system for medical treatment otherwise your punishing people for getting sick.

The simple reason for a lack of TUE's since could anything from the type of pollen he was exposed to, the pollen count or his switch to an environment where the air is much cleaner aka the track. As for Brailsford again it's a massive no no to disclose your employees private matters, he as a duty to them much more than he has to me and you.

 

[ontheroad]

Re: Re:

I freely admit to enjoying the sweet elixir of schadenfreude.

Where are all those Sky defenders now? Very strangely silent about this news.

I want more of those accusations of us wearing tin foil hats and more demands for plain, common sense empirical evidence.

Still yet to see evidence of wrong doing, they followed the rules set out. We have no right to the medical records of anybody. The treatment was prescribed by a doctor outside the team and the TUE's issued within the rules. It's a bit of a PR headache for Sky but the news cycle being what it is it will eventually fade into the background.

You dont have any issue with the bunch of lies they told?

What else are they lying about?

This is not a PR headache. They have been caught doing what dopers did as Jaksche confirms, using the same drugs Armstrong used and Wiggins only used the injections prior to GT performance and not since? Was he cured of his asthma and pollen allergies?

It is doping if you dont have pollen allergies or asthma bad enough to warrant an injection. So while Sky fans and Wiggins point to doing what the system allows, well it only allows use of substance if you are ill and the use of injections into muscles is not the correct course of treatment! So again this is doping, enabled by a corrupt system, but as Brailsford kept stressing, Sky were different than the past, but he lied. So what else is he lying about?

So again, i repeat, Sky and Wiggins have been caught doping. Yes the anti-doping have accepted the TUEs without proper investigation if Wiggins needed them, which makes anti-doping yet again look like nothing more than PR fluff as we saw in the Dr Bonar case and Liz Armistead cases.

This treatment was recommended by a doctor independent of the team and confidentiality means we will likely never know what condition he was in. Later life onset of allergies is increasingly common and as Wiggins was suffering from allergies as different doctors confirm (WADA had a veto) then this a legitimate if uncommon treatment. There has to be allowances within any anti doping system for medical treatment otherwise your punishing people for getting sick.

The simple reason for a lack of TUE's since could anything from the type of pollen he was exposed to, the pollen count or his switch to an environment where the air is much cleaner aka the track. As for Brailsford again it's a massive no no to disclose your employees private matters, he as a duty to them much more than he has to me and you.

You should apply for a job with the Sky PR department, you are making a much better fist of it than they are at present. To give them the benefit of the doubt in the manner that you are suggesting would involve taking a huge leap of faith bordering on delving into fantasy land. The fact that the revelations have been greeted by a deathly silence is very telling in itself.

 

[veji11]

Again the main issue is that TUE for potent medication shouldn't be delivered. Simply. If you need medication to compete because of a health issue, and if it can be cured by a medicine that might contain prohibited molecules but in such a low quantity as to not affect performance, than that's what a TUE in competition should be for : it explains why a substance is in your body, and confirms that it shouldn't have an effect on your overall performance.

If a substance can really alter your performance, it should NOT be allowed. Period. No TUE. If you really have to take it, you have to be put on some sort of inactive list for a while.

 

[BYOP88]

Re:

Again the main issue is that TUE for potent medication shouldn't be delivered. Simply. If you need medication to compete because of a health issue, and if it can be cured by a medicine that might contain prohibited molecules but in such a low quantity as to not affect performance, than that's what a TUE in competition should be for : it explains why a substance is in your body, and confirms that it shouldn't have an effect on your overall performance.

If a substance can really alter your performance, it should NOT be allowed. Period. No TUE. If you really have to take it, you have to be put on some sort of inactive list for a while.

Just ask Franck Bouyer about that 'inactive' list.

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

Again the main issue is that TUE for potent medication shouldn't be delivered. Simply. If you need medication to compete because of a health issue, and if it can be cured by a medicine that might contain prohibited molecules but in such a low quantity as to not affect performance, than that's what a TUE in competition should be for : it explains why a substance is in your body, and confirms that it shouldn't have an effect on your overall performance.

If a substance can really alter your performance, it should NOT be allowed. Period. No TUE. If you really have to take it, you have to be put on some sort of inactive list for a while.

Just ask Franck Bouyer about that 'inactive' list.

The whole point is that that inactive list should apply to all equally, but at some point if the only way an athlete can keep competing in spite of a health issue is by taking substances in quantities that could demonstrably increase his performance, than he just can't compete anymore... Any other way and you open the door to the very problems you see here.

EDIT : btw, as opposed to the Bouyer case in this precise Wiggins case those substances are very well known for their strong positive (and risky side effects) effect on performance.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Tramadol

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/team-sky-use-tramadol-121314

John Swanson

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Remember that this was the same time frame as no TUEs. If you're sick, you don't ride.

Quote: "The Team Sky principal, Sir Dave Brailsford, likened doping to recreational drug use last year and his squad's no-Tramadol policy was reiterated at the team's training camp last November. "It is similar to someone having their first joint and then moving on to ecstasy or whatever," said Brailsford last year. "Then the next thing you know everyone is on crack cocaine.""

John Swanson

 

[ScienceIsCool]

And then Saint Millar of Garmin has a go at Sky: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2016/09/19/drugs-used-by-sir-bradley-wiggins-should-be-banned-says-david-mi/

John Swanson

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

And then Saint Millar of Garmin has a go at Sky: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2016/09/19/drugs-used-by-sir-bradley-wiggins-should-be-banned-says-david-mi/

John Swanson

This was either orchestrated via sister Fran, Sky Press officer, or Millar put his foot in his mouth. I can't imagine Millar having a dig at his mate Brailsford.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

And then Saint Millar of Garmin has a go at Sky: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2016/09/19/drugs-used-by-sir-bradley-wiggins-should-be-banned-says-david-mi/

John Swanson

This was either orchestrated via sister Fran, Sky Press officer, or Millar put his foot in his mouth. I can't imagine Millar having a dig at his mate Brailsford.

It's an interesting coincidence.
David Walsh, Jeroen Swart and David Millar all singing from the exact same sheet.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

And then Saint Millar of Garmin has a go at Sky: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2016/09/19/drugs-used-by-sir-bradley-wiggins-should-be-banned-says-david-mi/

John Swanson

This was either orchestrated via sister Fran, Sky Press officer, or Millar put his foot in his mouth. I can't imagine Millar having a dig at his mate Brailsford.

If I were Wiggo I'd feel right pissed. Despite his obvious doping Sky are ready to cut him loose. No one is bigger than the Sky team. They will now hitch their train to the Froome express and leave Wiggo as a forgotten memory. Sky most likely know what else Fancy has up its sleeve (via WADA security team) and they have to make him look like the lone gunman in the book depository rather than part of a team doping effort. Cycling just goes in circles, always the rider, not he team.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

And then Saint Millar of Garmin has a go at Sky: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2016/09/19/drugs-used-by-sir-bradley-wiggins-should-be-banned-says-david-mi/

John Swanson

This was either orchestrated via sister Fran, Sky Press officer, or Millar put his foot in his mouth. I can't imagine Millar having a dig at his mate Brailsford.

It's an interesting coincidence.
David Walsh, Jeroen Swart and David Millar all singing from the exact same sheet.

That's very true. Even Jeremy Whitte is now on the new "message", by Team Mafia Sky.

 

[sniper]

Would like to hear Sutton's view on Wiggins' injections.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Would like to hear Sutton's view on Wiggins' injections.

Shane would probably like to avoid being sued.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Would like to hear Sutton's view on Wiggins' injections.

Shane would probably like to avoid being sued.

Shane Sutton worried about what he might say? Haha, lol! When has that stopped him before?

 

[70kmph]

Wiggo took a bigger risk, how was he to know the data would get hacked
Froome also stiffed the competition out of 2 wins, well done Chris

Team Sky are now proven to be steroid abusers
Probably part of a larger program, we see the tip of the iceberg

 

[bigcog]

Re:

Wiggo took a bigger risk, how was he to know the data would get hacked
Froome also stiffed the competition out of 2 wins, well done Chris

Team Sky are now proven to be steroid abusers
Probably part of a larger program, we see the tip of the iceberg

Froome's TUEs were already known ... Wiggins wasn't, and what he took was a lot more powerful apparently.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Wiggo took a bigger risk, how was he to know the data would get hacked
Froome also stiffed the competition out of 2 wins, well done Chris

Team Sky are now proven to be steroid abusers
Probably part of a larger program, we see the tip of the iceberg

Froome's TUEs were already known ... Wiggins wasn't, and what he took was a lot more powerful apparently.

Without the leak and hack we never would have known. It would have been ZTP - Marginal Gains all the way.

It's clear what Sky say and do are very different things... how different? Well, I know this bear...

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

Wiggo took a bigger risk, how was he to know the data would get hacked
Froome also stiffed the competition out of 2 wins, well done Chris

Team Sky are now proven to be steroid abusers
Probably part of a larger program, we see the tip of the iceberg

Froome's TUEs were already known ... Wiggins wasn't, and what he took was a lot more powerful apparently.

Without the leak and hack we never would have known. It would have been ZTP - Marginal Gains all the way.

It's clear what Sky say and do are very different things... how different? Well, I know this bear...

I'm not disagreeing on that, just saying Wiggins has lot more to answer than Froome in this particular instance.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Wiggo took a bigger risk, how was he to know the data would get hacked
Froome also stiffed the competition out of 2 wins, well done Chris

Team Sky are now proven to be steroid abusers
Probably part of a larger program, we see the tip of the iceberg

Froome's TUEs were already known ... Wiggins wasn't, and what he took was a lot more powerful apparently.

Without the leak and hack we never would have known. It would have been ZTP - Marginal Gains all the way.

It's clear what Sky say and do are very different things... how different? Well, I know this bear...

I'm not disagreeing on that, just saying Wiggins has lot more to answer than Froome in this particular instance.

No, they both have a lot to answer for. They are two of the most absurd transformations in our living time at the same time on one team - what are the chances? Yes their TUE drugs are different but there is something up with how the both of them went from being decidedly average on the road to becoming very very good.

 

[DanielSong39]

At this rate Nibali may become the winner of the 2012 Tour de France...

Not sure what's behind this latest controversy. It's not like it's exactly a surprise; you have to dope to be competitive...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Wiggo took a bigger risk, how was he to know the data would get hacked
Froome also stiffed the competition out of 2 wins, well done Chris

Team Sky are now proven to be steroid abusers
Probably part of a larger program, we see the tip of the iceberg

Froome's TUEs were already known ... Wiggins wasn't, and what he took was a lot more powerful apparently.

Interesting how Froome was much stronger than Wiggins with no TUE, yet Wiggins of full of cortisone injections.

 

[Benotti69]

This is worth a read again

http://www.stickybottle.com/uncategorized/opinion-has-team-sky-kept-the-promises-it-made-on-doping/

It really shows Sky have been lying through their teeth.