Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[hrotha]

And here was me giving up all hopes of a lucid argument appearing in this thread. Posting daft photos is just so much easier.

Turn it round and ask, who in this field should have been beating Wiggins, Nibali & Taaramae? J VdB probably, but he was scuppered by a crash/mechanical. Some other top climbers are already out of GC contention so wouldn't be going full tilt.

I'm tired of this kind of argument. It's basically asking us to assume that ALL Sky riders were coincidentally at their best today.

 

[Gloin22]

You mean how Boonen en Terpstra demolished the field while hardly breaking a sweat? I'd say this is comparable

And what did they do right? Well, very "experienced" doctors on both teams.

If doped riders can be allowed into peleton like Scarponi, Basso etc and redeem themselves. Why can't the stuff too ?

 

[thehog]

Wiggins being up there isn't surprising or shocking or suspicious.

Froome, well, when he's on form you could expect it, after all he won a similar but steeper stage in the Vuelta last year. However, he is suspicious full stop.

Porte, now we're onto shaky ground. The guy has shown he's decent in the past, but last time we saw him climbing in a GT he was a useless domestique to Contador, and before that it was losing several minutes to the likes of Scarponi and Basso (who he shelled out the back door today), however they have a Giro in their legs and he doesn't. You start to be suspicious when, when he drops, there's only about four other riders in the group, and Rogers is chasing back up.

Rogers... now you're just taking the p*ss.

Fromme has been injured all year. He hasn't done anything else until today........ riiiiiiiggghhhhhht.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Did you watch Vuelta 2011 and all of this season btw ? For example.

Algarve. Parsi Nice. Romandie. Dauphine.

None of the caliber of Tour but seeing them like that was NOT unexpected.

Many people expected that before Tour, the UK postal train

At the same time, that makes it more suspicious. That's four stage races over five months, and they've not dropped form once.

The only stage races Wiggins hasn't won this year have been Algarve, when his teammate was up the road, and he won the ITT anyway, and Catalunya, where he, along with almost every other big name rider, dropped out for safety's sakes on the annulled Port-Ainé stage.

 

[frenchfry]

Sky was impressive at the Dauphiné, dominating the climbs as a team. But that wasn't the TDF so not the best indication.

This was the real deal, and 3 Skys leading a group of 9 was surreal.

Nice to see my favorites like Menchov, Bottle and other chaudières get dropped though. On ne peut pas avoir le beurre et l'argent du beurre (Can't have your cake and eat it too).

 

[Franklin]

I dont have anything against you but you are a huge fan of a suspended rider(I know that you dont believe him doping)
Just saying that its weird to accuse a team with no proper evidence

Seems I need to repeat my question: What's your opinion of the team doctor's of Sky?

 

[roundabout]

You mean how Boonen en Terpstra demolished the field while hardly breaking a sweat? I'd say this is comparable

And what did they do right? Well, very "experienced" doctors on both teams.

OPQS: Jose Ibarguren Taus, Yvan van Mol and Toon Cruyt
Sky: Tim Kerrison, Steve Peters and Geert Leinders

Look into their past and be as amused as I am that this is allowed by the UCI.

I especially advise the believers in this Brittish miracle to read their resumes before posting in this thread

Many teams have dodgy doctors.

Of course, not all dodgy doctors are equal.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Wiggins puts 42 seconds in to Zubeldia.

Obvious doping is obvious.

Tony Gallopin was 19th. Weird stage.

Climb time was nothing particularly amazing; lots of big names just seem to be **** nowadays. Impressive for Nibali to come back and close the gap to Froome so much since the Vuelta though.

 

[Fergoose]

Just a question, what's your opinion on Sky's medical staff?

I don't have enough knowledge of them to form an opinion on that one.

I do think if Sky were all doping, Wiggins would be a cut above Froome. That clearly hasn't been the case in the last two GCs yet Sky are clearly desperate that it is Wiggins and not Froome that lifts their first Grand Tour. How do people explain that?

I suspect doping by some member(s) of Sky, but I don't suspect systematic doping by the team, specifically, I find Wiggin's progression in recent years credible when tucked behind a "super" domestique.

I also continue to give riders like Nibali, Evans and Taaramae a big benefit of the doubt. Those assuming Wiggins is on the sauce must, on todays evidence, also cast their net wider.

 

[BillytheKid]

op is right, only contador is allowed to ride uphill that fast clean, anyone else must have swallowed/injected a whole pharmacy to do so

The all knowing, all seeing, eye has spoken.

If Sky goes forward in such fashion, be prepared to explain Wiggins' sudden rise this year.

 

[Parrot23]

Would have been nice to be a fly the wall of the BMC car to witness John Lelangue--who doesn't exactly have a team clean pedigree--spilling his espresso when Froome went past Evans.

 

[burning]

Seems I need to repeat my question: What's your opinion of the team doctor's of Sky?

I am aware that he doesnt have the best reputation in the world but still lets wait for a while, If they are doping, something will come out sooner or later

 

[goggalor]

So how surprising is this? The riders that managed to stick with Froome and Wiggins were Evans and Nibali. Despite last year Evans has never been the BEST climber in the bunch. Nibali has always been fragile on the climbs. Ofcourse he has really good days.

Who are next? Taaramae. ZUBELDIA?!?.. Rolland.. ok big talent. Brajkovic, well he has never been a king in the mountains. Monfort...

What's this? The competition just seems to be rubbish?

My doubts come from riders like Rogers. Last few years he was always someone to get dropped fast in the climbs. Last time he did well in the mountains was during a certain era...


(I posted this an hour ago, but the forum went 404 for me)

The biggest thing for me is the ridiculous team performance. Actually that's the only thing, it was kind of hard to swallow Wiggins' transformation back in 09, but I expect him to be up there. (Hell, I even like the guy, at least I did before today.) Froome's transformation in the Vuelta last year was laughable, the same with Porte this season and I don't know whether to laugh or cry when Rogers suddenly finds his old climbing legsx10.

 

[Ferminal]

Rogers is the only one you can say is obviously doping. We can easily compare him to 2006.

The others may just be incredibly talented.

 

[roundabout]

The all knowing, all seeing, eye has spoken.

If Sky goes forward in such fashion, be prepared to explain Wiggins' sudden rise this year.

Context, dear boy, context.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Rogers is the only one you can say is obviously doping. We can easily compare him to 2006.

The others may just be incredibly talented.

It's a safe bet Rogers is climbing much slower than 2006 if he's only putting 40 seconds on Fabian.

 

[frenchfry]

Lol this is just too obvious.

Funny, just the other day someone brought up the famous Contador/Chicken sprint-fest up the alpine cols in 2007 as a classic example of excessive doping.

I will give you that I can't remember him being towed up the mountains by an incredible number of teammates, maybe he just didn't need that kind of help.

Sorry for going off topic, but gives perspective on unbelievable moments in cycling of which todays performance was one.

 

[Parrot23]

Did Porte do really well in the Giro one year as a Saxo rider?

 

[roundabout]

Wiggins puts 42 seconds in to Zubeldia.

Obvious doping is obvious.

Tony Gallopin was 19th. Weird stage.

Climb time was nothing particularly amazing; lots of big names just seem to be **** nowadays. Impressive for Nibali to come back and close the gap to Froome so much since the Vuelta though.

Sky seem to all of a sudden have the 2 most naturally talented riders in their ranks. Is that what you are implying?

In a cleaner field certain performances also stand out.

 

[burning]

It's a safe bet Rogers is climbing much slower than 2006 if he's only putting 40 seconds on Fabian.

Canc was way better than anybody expected, I expected him to lose 5-6 minutes but he almost passed Frankie

 

[issoisso]

The ITT will be hilarious if Wiggo's anglo-helpers go all out.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-de-france-2006/stage-7/results

 

[T_S_A_R]

i'm struggling to remember a team being so dominant in a stage since us postal.

can anyone recall seeing anything like that in the post 2005 era?

(other than the dauphine a month ago)

 

[UlleGigo]

Did Porte do really well in the Giro one year as a Saxo rider?

After going in a breakaway that took around 18 minutes because LeakyGas and Astana (??) refused to cooperate and the chase was called off.

So, no not really.

 

[burning]

Did Porte do really well in the Giro one year as a Saxo rider?

Yeah he did but it was largely due to that Aquila breakaway, he was dropped by a lot of riders in every mountain stage

 

[DirtyWorks]

I don't have enough knowledge of them to form an opinion on that one.

Get to know the good doctor. A sketchy character with close ties to doping if there ever was one.

I also continue to give riders like Nibali, Evans and Taaramae a big benefit of the doubt. Those assuming Wiggins is on the sauce must, on todays evidence, also cast their net wider.

Only deniers argue doping in the top-5 in the GT's is unlikely. The Sky train and the apparent lack of effort tells the whole story. There should be four Sky riders in the GC top-ten if it weren't for a flat tire earlier this week!