Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[The Hitch]

I couldn't help but call the guy out on his bull**** to his face.
What's the over/under on how long till he rages at me?

And these broadsheet newspapers pride themselves on having top quality "sports journalists" as if that wasnt an oxymoron.

Just shows that you can be a total idiot and work for the guardian.

 

[taiwan]

I like that post. The fix is in in soccer, so why not at Team Sky? Murdoch is the owner? Didn´t know that. He can buy everything and controls the media. That´s wayyy bigger than Armstrong. Untouchable.

We all might just ignore sky riders...

Thanks for quoting that, I hadn't read Maxiton's post the first time and I concur. You wonder if Armstrong's PR strategies might be employed also...

 

[El Pistolero]

One thing did occur to me. Did Dimspace, aka TeamSkyFans, leave the forum after last years Vuelta? If so, does anyone think his absence has anything to do with not copping ridicule for being a diehard Sky and Wiggins fan? In other words, he got out of here when he noticed the doping smoke signals and didn't want to face the inevitable?

He left CN in February and he's not a Wiggans fan. In fact Wiggans blocked him on twitter.

 

[Caruut]

And these broadsheet newspapers pride themselves on having top quality "sports journalists" as if that wasnt an oxymoron.

Just shows that you can be a total idiot and work for the guardian.

I love The Guardian and I know that.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The Murdoch empire were comfortable with hacking murdered school girls phones to get results they are the lowest of the low, so yeah the conspiracy is not far fetched at all imagine the PR sky will get delivering the UK with its first tdf winner

Yes. It´s all about the money. If Armstrong was the world of cycling, Murdoch is the universe. He´s too big to ever fall... Guys don´t expect anything to come out in the future, unless Walsh risks his life.

Thanks for quoting that, I hadn't read Maxiton's post the first time and I concur. You wonder if Armstrong's PR strategies might be employed also...

Welcome...
I couldn´t watch today, saw the replay at night in ESP, and couldn´t believe it. So i started reading the forum from page 39 on. You get some very good posts here....
I think it´s not Armstrong involved, but that the same PR strategies always work. They just had the blue print of Armstrong. No need to contact him. Murdoch has it all.

 

[red_flanders]

Where is this data from?

And is the set of riders"samples consistent through the xAxis?

 

[The Hitch]

David Walsh said in the press room during the 99 Tour when Lance won at Sestriere that many journalists were laughing cynically at Armstrong riding uphill at that speed.

I wonder what they and especially Walsh were thinking of today watching that.

Thats a good story. Where did he say that?

BTW i respect the way you were very pro wiggins in the months leading up to the tour but show doubt after today.

To have the open mindedness to be ready to alter ones positions is a quality imo

 

[asdfgh101]

Ok a couple of things,

1st: Dim left the forum after Wiggo crashed out last year, there were alot of rumors why he left, but the reason is this, he bet a huge sum of money on Wiggins to win, we're talking a 6 figure total, but he borrowed the money from some NE gangsters and I believe he's fled the country for his own safety.

2nd: Dim aka TeamSkyFans aka Howard Marks supplied and and in part funded Team Sky's doping programme, he's since stopped funding the team due to a twitter fallout between himself and Wiggins and the fact he wanted Froome to win the Vuelta and was furious that Sky went all out for Wiggins and handed the Vuelta to Cobo.

It's funny, now that i don't bet on my selections i 'win' far more often. Was tempted to bring a few accounts out of retirement at the start of August last year when the 2012 TDF route was leaked. Wiggins available at 25-1, congratulations to anyone who cleaned up (wonder if dim was on ).

 

[thehog]

I guess to put it another way;

If Sky aren't doping then you've just see the single greatest natural performance in the history of the Tour. Wiggins, Froome, Rogers and Porte were all pushing 480w+ clean. That's impressive. Probably the best the Tour has ever seen in history.

Do we have an estimate about those numbers, w/kg for the entire climb?
It must be very high because they killed the entire peloton with their pace

If it would actually be around those numbers and according to them "still not too the limit" .. well .. we're back to US Postal time no

Also, Froome ............... come oooooooon ?!

Wiggins quoted himself at 480w knowing that was the magical number to kill everyone else off.... he just dialed the team into 480w and the rest dropped. No fun in that!

I was taking the p1ss of course. Because if they're clean then they have 5 if not 6 of the most naturally talented cyclists on one team!

 

[Maxiton]

Wiggins quoted himself at 480w knowing that was the magical number to kill everyone else off.... he just dialed the team into 480w and the rest dropped. No fun in that!

I was taking the p1ss of course. Because if they're clean then they have 5 if not 6 of the most naturally talented cyclists on one team!

The other day before the Tour started i read a quote from wiggins where he said, "I've had a look at the numbers. Going by what i see, I am untouchable in the mountains" or something to that effect. It was remarkably arrogant, even if true. Anyone recall where that interview can be found?

 

[nighttrain]

Wonder what Matt Decanio thinks of today's finish? Wasn't his concerns about the doping habits of Micheal Rogers' during the 2002 Tour de Beauce the beginning of the end for the young whistleblower? Decanio seemed like such a fringe element back then but all he claimed now appears likely or has been proven as fact.

 

[thehog]

Wonder what Matt Decanio thinks of today's finish? Wasn't his concerns about the doping habits of Micheal Rogers' during the 2002 Tour de Beauce the beginning of the end for the young whistleblower? Decanio seemed like such a fringe element back then but all he claimed now appears likely or has been proven as fact.

Rogers was part of the Freiburg Musketeers at T-Mobile. Dont worry about him.

 

[BroDeal]

Wonder what Matt Decanio thinks of today's finish? Wasn't his concerns about the doping habits of Micheal Rogers' during the 2002 Tour de Beauce the beginning of the end for the young whistleblower? Decanio seemed like such a fringe element back then but all he claimed now appears likely or has been proven as fact.

Decanio was a nut, but I remember his writing about doing a race with Rogers. Decanio yelled at Rogers that he was riding clean. Rogers gave him the stink eye.

If Rogers is performing well then you know that something is up. He is the Australian Leipheimer, only a lot less successful.

 

[Parrot23]

Different team different Doctor.

Lotto's Doctor from last year went to OmegaPharma QuickStep this year.

Boonen last year crap. Gilbert last year great

Boonen this year great. Gilbert this year crap

Doping doctor.

Okay, got it. Thanks.

I had thought he would be using someone out of the team, but I'm obviously wrong. That's one thing that's anomalous with Wiggins: his breakthrough clearly dates from his time at Garmin, but everybody here is arguing it's Sky team doping. If it dates from Garmin, as it does, he has to have had an outside doctor the whole time, but no one here has alleged that. Doesn't add up. It's all about Sky, a U.K. team. Spanish rider/team supporters are evidently p1ssed at always being the dopee supporters of the peloton.

And this stuff about Murdoch is ridiculous. I don't like the guy but he wouldn't know the front of a bike from the back. He couldn't care less. The fact Sky is sponsoring a cycling team probably hasn't even crossed his mind. He doesn't know or care. It's like complaining about Garmin because they were formed when Georgie Bush was prez, whatever. Just doesn't wash.

 

[nighttrain]

True but it took a nutter like Decanio to break the omertà in the US peloton.

 

[Parrot23]

I guess to put it another way;

If Sky aren't doping then you've just see the single greatest natural performance in the history of the Tour. Wiggins, Froome, Rogers and Porte were all pushing 480w+ clean. That's impressive. Probably the best the Tour has ever seen in history.

Hog, I'm not sure why they mention the watts. Do you know?

 

[Parrot23]

Something I've noticed is that Sky has almost completely stopped flagging themselves as a "clean team". .

Yes, I've noticed that too.

 

[Parrot23]

Post of the day.

And how do we have the 2012 figures when the year is not even half done, doofus?

 

[Parrot23]

Freshly updated stats from sportsscientists.com. Hot off the presses.

Right, like those who say the inflation rate has risen based on a few months' data. Economist always laugh at idiocy like that, in the media esp. The data certainly won't be recent. There may be 1-2 months' data there max. Data are always updated with a long lag, and initial data are rarely correct in anything. Revisions are always made.

 

[thehog]

Hog, I'm not sure why they mention the watts. Do you know?

It's the magical number. The one number that can kill everyone. Quote 480 and the other teams already know they can't win. No one can hold 480+ longer than 15 minutes bar Sky. It's a reminder to all the other teams not to try anything early. Just hold on otherwise we'll hunt you down.

What we saw today will only do one thing...... the doping arms race will get stepped up again. To combat Sky next year every other team will have to get programs. Just when teams were beginning to mix and match riders again we're about to see a return to single leader teams.

Nothing about today was positive for cycling. It was a step back. I can guarantee that no Sky rider will test positive. We have to hope the French Police do their jobs.

If you're looking for the Floyd Landos whistleblower on Sky I'd say Cav will blow the hat of proceedings in 2-3 years time. He knows it's bullsh1t what they're doing.

 

[function]

Right, like those who say the inflation rate has risen based on a few months' data. The date certainly won't be recent. There may be 1-2 months' date there max.

That was BroDeal's Joke, the real graph doesnt have that last bit at the end

 

[BroDeal]

That was BroDeal's Joke, the real graph doesnt have that last bit at the end

 

[function]

I guess to put it another way;

If Sky aren't doping then you've just see the single greatest natural performance in the history of the Tour. Wiggins, Froome, Rogers and Porte were all pushing 480w+ clean. That's impressive. Probably the best the Tour has ever seen in history.

Except they weren't all pushing 480W+

 

[Parrot23]

It's the magical number. The one number that can kill everyone. Quote 480 and the other teams already know they can't win. No one can hold 480+ longer than 15 minutes bar Sky. It's a reminder to all the other teams not to try anything early. Just hold on otherwise we'll hunt you down.

Okay, thanks. Appreciated.

But I see there's this, ostensibly by Vaughters in the past in the Power Data Estimates thread, indicating that Wiggo at Garmin could hold 480 watts for an 18min TT.

"That said: CVV can produce about 5.9 watts per kg in peak form for 40+ minute climbs, Wiggo is a bit more at 6.1 w/kg for this length of effort.
From the pre-Tour tests both riders have done up Rocacorba (a 33 minute climb) I know that Wiggo was at 6.1w/kg and CVV was 5.7 w/kg (He was off form a bit in June). However, Wiggo did a local 10 mile TT in GB about 2 weeks before the Tour, or 5 days before the Rocacorba test. He posted a time of 18mins flat (and was disqualified for using a 1080 wheel...funny rules over there). Anyhow, his power was 482 watts, so using his Tour weight of 72 kgs, so 6.7 w/kg. So, anecdotally, there's about a 9% decrease in power when going from a 20 min effort to a 40+ min effort. At 6.7 w/kg you certainly can climb at a VAM of 1750, but at 6.1 you wont even hit 1700 (again, anecdotal based on experience).
The last TT in the Tour Wiggo averaged 434 watts, consistent with his previous tests of 40+ minutes and just about 6.1 w/kg. I dont have any data for Wiggo up climbs in the Tour, as he didnt use a PowerTap.

JV"

This is hardly Armstrong and Ullrich pulling 500 watts for 45mins. Short climb today.

I wonder what Cancellara was pushing at 82kgs and not far back, including ahead of Basso, Scarponi, Horner, Gesink, Vellits, etc.

 

[Parrot23]

Okey dokey! Hearsay passes as fact here, so I was fooled. Actually, thought it was creative work with MS Paint, but didn't want to make the accusation of lying.