Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[JMBeaushrimp]

Actually your post was horribly offensive. There was an era of Armstrong et al where dope was indeed the oil in the engine Of tht there is no doubt.
However, we have moved into a new era and your post was a nasty cynical and unwarranted slur on an honourable person in the shape of Wiggins. Remember the pain he went through when the Cofidis team was dragged away by the police because one idiot doped? Do you really think that Sky and the British Cycling Team could get away with cheating when they are under so much scrutiny? Don't you think that given a scientific approach to training with new thinking and new ideas may just be the game changer here? Do you really think that continually insulting Brailsford and his team's collective intelligence and the hard work of a very talented and gifted rider is the way to proceed here? In fact do half you guys think at all before putting pen to paper or keys to computer?
For once in your life you collective non-achievers should open your eyes and praise the success of others and stop insulting those who have managed to get it together. Indeed if half of the cycling nations in the world took the no-nonsense approach taken by British Cycling and Sky, persuaded their governments to invest pubic money and so on, then you'd have greater success from many countries on the world stage. I can only look at the abysmal organisation of the Thai Cycling Association - a country that should be producing great climbers and rouleurs - to know just how much truth their is in my statement.
So instead of sitting there and writing putrid nonsense why don't you go out there and start organsing in the way that Brailsford and British Cycling has done? Or perhaps its easier just to sit there and write nonsense and showing disrespect to those this nonsense are loners with autism who do not understand the meaning of the words 'work' and 'success'. Wiggins referred to you lot as something beginning with "W:. He was being too kind.

Nothing like fighting against generalities with more generalities.

How's that working for ya?

 

[blackcat]

The Cobra

so fast up the mtn they named a car alarm after him. respect

 

[Zam_Olyas]

This is LOLtastic. The great thing is that you don't even have to write it yourself. Just take a post from a jingoistic Armstrong supporter from about 2004; do a search and replace to convert Armstrong to Wiggins, Disco to Sky, and Bruyneel to Brailsford; and, voila, new post that covers every talking point. It could be easily automated for robo posting.

He himself is a lance fanboy. lol

 

[User Guide]

Actually your post was horribly offensive. There was an era of Armstrong et al where dope was indeed the oil in the engine Of tht there is no doubt.
However, we have moved into a new era and your post was a nasty cynical and unwarranted slur on an honourable person in the shape of Wiggins. Remember the pain he went through when the Cofidis team was dragged away by the police because one idiot doped? Do you really think that Sky and the British Cycling Team could get away with cheating when they are under so much scrutiny? Don't you think that given a scientific approach to training with new thinking and new ideas may just be the game changer here? Do you really think that continually insulting Brailsford and his team's collective intelligence and the hard work of a very talented and gifted rider is the way to proceed here? In fact do half you guys think at all before putting pen to paper or keys to computer?
For once in your life you collective non-achievers should open your eyes and praise the success of others and stop insulting those who have managed to get it together. Indeed if half of the cycling nations in the world took the no-nonsense approach taken by British Cycling and Sky, persuaded their governments to invest pubic money and so on, then you'd have greater success from many countries on the world stage. I can only look at the abysmal organisation of the Thai Cycling Association - a country that should be producing great climbers and rouleurs - to know just how much truth their is in my statement.
So instead of sitting there and writing putrid nonsense why don't you go out there and start organsing in the way that Brailsford and British Cycling has done? Or perhaps its easier just to sit there and write nonsense and showing disrespect to those this nonsense are loners with autism who do not understand the meaning of the words 'work' and 'success'. Wiggins referred to you lot as something beginning with "W:. He was being too kind.

As the father of autistic twins,I could take offence that you use their condition in a derogatory manner;however ill choose to believe your just misinfomed.

 

[ianfra]

One terrible issue with the British Media is that they've had nothing good to talk about cycling wise ever, so they're definitely not going to start being skeptical about Sky's performance, they're trying to create a market there.

I'm French, and there's one thing we do, and that's to crucify our athletes when they do something wrong. Virenque was loved by everyone and he did not get away with it. Heck I don't even understand how the british media can praise or even tolerate wiggins' language or attitude throughout this tour. But when they take it to the point where they claim this is the first clean team/win in the history of the sport.... Then that's just lying to our faces.

If I was Wiggins I would react in the same way. When you work so hard to achieve something and you get stupid ignorant journalists desparate to muck rake and find a story that does not exist then you would respond in the same way. Wiggins is clean . Sky is clean. Wiggins is honorable. Sky is honorable. But you cannot say that about beer swilling, whisky drinking and probably cocaine taking journalists. How dare they question Sky in this way? Do they think they are God or something?

 

[ianfra]

As the father of autistic twins,I could take offence that you use their condition in a derogatory manner;however ill choose to believe your just misinfomed.

"your"
you are
"ill choose"
ill chosen.
As a former professional in the field of Autism, I know what I was saying. There are degrees of autism on the spectrum and it is without doubt that many people who hide their identities on the internet and in forums are somewhere on the spectrum. I know. I've worked with them.

 

[MartinGT]

oh its you're = you are


Just saying

 

[Franklin]

"your"
you are
"ill choose"
ill chosen.
As a former professional in the field of Autism, I know what I was saying. There are degrees of autism on the spectrum and it is without doubt that many people who hide their identities on the internet and in forums are somewhere on the spectrum. I know. I've worked with them.

And yet you used it in a derogatory manner?

CUTE

 

[Mr Pumpy]

If you just don't know if they are or if anyone else is, you can't make the condition that " if they are then everyone else is", although it's a convenient justification. You need to wait and play that card if/when they get busted.

Now that is hilarious. You, and others are yapping away with serious, libellous, accusations without any credible evidence and here you are trying to tell me what I can and cannot say.

Comedy gold.

 

[PedalPusher]

Actually your post was horribly offensive. There was an era of Armstrong et al where dope was indeed the oil in the engine Of tht there is no doubt.
However, we have moved into a new era and your post was a nasty cynical and unwarranted slur on an honourable person in the shape of Wiggins. Remember the pain he went through when the Cofidis team was dragged away by the police because one idiot doped? Do you really think that Sky and the British Cycling Team could get away with cheating when they are under so much scrutiny? Don't you think that given a scientific approach to training with new thinking and new ideas may just be the game changer here? Do you really think that continually insulting Brailsford and his team's collective intelligence and the hard work of a very talented and gifted rider is the way to proceed here? In fact do half you guys think at all before putting pen to paper or keys to computer?
For once in your life you collective non-achievers should open your eyes and praise the success of others and stop insulting those who have managed to get it together. Indeed if half of the cycling nations in the world took the no-nonsense approach taken by British Cycling and Sky, persuaded their governments to invest pubic money and so on, then you'd have greater success from many countries on the world stage. I can only look at the abysmal organisation of the Thai Cycling Association - a country that should be producing great climbers and rouleurs - to know just how much truth their is in my statement.
So instead of sitting there and writing putrid nonsense why don't you go out there and start organsing in the way that Brailsford and British Cycling has done? Or perhaps its easier just to sit there and write nonsense and showing disrespect to those this nonsense are loners with autism who do not understand the meaning of the words 'work' and 'success'. Wiggins referred to you lot as something beginning with "W:. He was being too kind.

Wiggo is that you? Can't sleep?

 

[MartinGT]

I am trying to look at this from all angles, try and not just be focused on "Sky (be it an individual or as a team) are dopers!"

I have re-watched yesterdays stage and the stage before. Spartacus looks spent, he looks ill. I am not trying to find any excuses for the man, but he really does. I wouldnt be suprised if the lad got Pneumonia or Bronchitus!

Martin has a broken wrist and had a puncture. He isnt running great.

I just think or would like to think Wiggo & Froome are just running better on a weaker field. Added to that Skys prep has been meticulous as always.

Maybe, just maybe, they are clean......

 

[Mr Pumpy]

Well according to the yappy big mouths, we've moved on to a total acceptance that not only are Sky clearly outrageous dopers, but so were the GB track team that spanked everyone at the 08 Olympics.

 

[pugdog]

Yapping poodles Mr Pumpy?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I kinda liked this sport, till 22 years ago that is.

To see again a Tour de Farce were donkeys are turned into racehorces is just hilarious. These Sky boys must be superhumans. Destroying Cancellara like an amateur time trialler. Ergo, also look at the Jose Ibarguren boys, for that matter.

Who do they think they are kidding? Come on. Nothing to see here, just walk through people. It's all about dedication, the Sky boys are just more dedicated than all off the other. Seeing Evans almost falling of his TT bike after the finish compared to the almost 'fresh' Wiggins: must be the dedication folks.

Froome? I'm not even going to comment on that fallguy. Seeing him sprinting uphill in la Vuelta last year as if he was the reincarnation of M. Rasmussen said enough. Geert Leinders once again did the trick and kept him out of trouble. Always conveniend to be having a blooddisease so your blood is able to fluctuate....

Sky = Rabo 2007
BMC = Phonak [at least they learned to not overdo it]

So we are lead to believe Wiggo and Vrooom are the new Hinault and LeMond, how about that.

 

[thrawn]

Froome & Wiggins beating Cancellara? F**king joke.

 

[Mr Pumpy]

I just think or would like to think Wiggo & Froome are just running better on a weaker field. Added to that Skys prep has been meticulous as always....

Of course it's a weaker field. No Contador, no Schleck. It amazes me that people are amazed by Wiggins TT win. Anybody with any understanding will know that Wiggins tactics were always going to be to try and hold Cadels wheel in the hills and get an advantage in the TT. He'd clearly done that TT route many times, as he will have done the next one.

Wiggins and Evans have always looked liked clean riders, they never launch massive succesful attacks because they can't. There is no comparison with Armstrong.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Froome & Wiggins beating Cancellara? F**king joke.

Yes, Cancellara has never been beaten in a time trial at a Grand Tour before. It's not like Froome and Wiggins have beaten him in a time trial before, the whole thing stinks.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

. He'd clearly done that TT route many times, as he will have done the next one.QUOTE]

Yes - because rehearsing on the actual route a few times is proven to increase wattage dramatically.

After all Lance used to know where the corners were on the climbs, and that helped him ride up them at 495w (I guess he knew when to brake)

 

[Mr Pumpy]

You've never ridden a bike in your life have you.

 

[MartinGT]

Wiggo & Froome did the same to Spartacus in last years Vuelta ITT.

Martin won, but he didnt have the problems with his wrist / bike and he isnt having a great season.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

You've never ridden a bike in your life have you.

I was an elite without contract rider in NL / BE for several years.

Rode plenty of TT's. Even checked out the course a few times too.

You?

 

[hrotha]

I was an elite without contract rider in NL / BE for several years.

Rode plenty of TT's. Even checked out the course a few times too.

You?

Me, I only ride with my friends on an MTB like once or twice a week. I bet some people here have never touched a bike.

And yet, I feel we're all more qualified than Mr Pumpy to discuss this.

 

[yourwelcome]

Do you really think that Sky and the British Cycling Team could get away with cheating when they are under so much scrutiny?

Yes, absolutely.

Let's face it, at this point we can safely say the team they namedrop as their model did for seven tours.

Don't you think that given a scientific approach to training with new thinking and new ideas may just be the game changer here?

It would be a lovely thought, but in a word, no.

That's exactly what we were told last time. SSDD.

Until a positive test comes in or somebody spills the beans, which we know could take years or never happen at all, I realise that it's a tempting and relatively plausible hook on which to hang your hopes. As is the idea that in a happy coincidence, all of the opposition are injured, out of condition, too lazy or too stupid to compete.

It's just that it's such a long shot I wouldn't bet five dollars on it let alone my house.

Wiggins offering nothing but aggression to counter suspicions also doesn't inspire hope against the odds.

 

[yourwelcome]

Well according to the yappy big mouths, we've moved on to a total acceptance that not only are Sky clearly outrageous dopers, but so were the GB track team that spanked everyone at the 08 Olympics.

Really? I'm going to have to look up that GB track team thing. I guess that would make sense, yes. Thanks for alerting me!

 

[Fergoose]

Also, why the hell is Rui Costa coming in for questioning? He's about 15th and has been picked up by the cameras roughly never. Why WOULD we be questioning him the same way as we're questioning a guy who is a 30+ year old trackie who has turned himself into an unstoppable machine besting the climbers on the climbs and losing 10kg yet improving his TT power too, and a guy who was on the verge of losing his pro contract when he suddenly got over an illness to become one of the best climbers and TTers in the world for three weeks... only to then contract that same illness again for another 6 months only to suddenly get over it in time to become one of the best climbers and TTers in the world for another three weeks?

I'm just making a point that if the exploits of folk like Cobo and Rui Costa go past undebated then there clearly is not a witchhunt against non-anglophone riders on this forum. I'm also making the point that if people think the only above average performances in the TdF thus far are in Sky jerseys, they are kidding themselves. Finally, I’d make the further point that if posters focus on some above average performances, but consistently wilfully ignore other above average performances because they are made by someone on another team, or of another nationality, then they are going to struggle to be taken seriously.

Rui Costa is the third best GC rider on Movistar at best. If he was the third best GC rider on Sky I would wager his performance this week would be commented on by many on this thread, not least given his previous suspension (1 year reduced to 5 months on appeal) for taking a proscribed substance. He currently lies 11th overall and came within seconds in the ITT to the likes of Nibali, Menchov, Tony Martin and wasn’t far off Evans. All this on his TdF debut.

Although Rui Costa is surprisingly thumping his much vaunted team mates Valverde and the reigning Vuelta champ, I agree with your suggestion that its not too suspect unless he does special things in the mountain. So he doesn't merit his own clinic thread based on the TdF so far. One to watch though arguably given his previous drugs related suspension and extremely impressive performance irrespective of his country of origin or team colours.

*ban later reduced on appeal as he succeeded where slalom skier Alain Baxter failed and convinced authorities it had been taken accidentally.