Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[GoneWithTailWind]

The Tomolaris quote - exactly the kind of reference I see the commentators making to cue in anyone in the know that they are also suspicious. When you refer to a known doping event, the inference is there. It wasn't just USPostal, but many performances that are now known to have been doped.

The testing and the biopassport are good for some control, but obviously not all. Things may be cleaner, but too many people who can know still think it is not. As I said earlier - we have seen teams, pre-EPO, who had 2 riders on the podium, and 3 in the top 10. Look at Andy Hampsten's best performance. I would say, based on that race, that having a strong team boosts all the members, not just the captain. But to seemingly have 4 riders who could be top 10 placers is - "just too good to be true". Even having 3 is reason enough for suspicion. They don't need to test with EPO-era power levels to have a winning advantage.

Well, folks, it has been an interesting discussion today. Afaic, Sky has "some 'splainin' to do". Which is unlikely - so, unless something changes, they get an asterisk next to their name this year. (imo, of course)

I think you give Tomolaris too much credit. I suspect (as Stingray34 was saying) that he really is that dim.

Another one he came out with after the end of the stage reading his notes "Michael Rogers has said that at 65kg, he is the lightest he has been since he was 16 years of age"
[Edit: Chris85 beat me to it]

I do remember him taunting, Ok - teasing maybe, people online/on twitter about Armstrong last year before things started to get totally out of hand. Would be curious to know how far along he has come since then as he certainly sounded like a true believer.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

support
what a shame

You agree or are you making a mockery out of me? Remember, I 'm no native English speaking.

 

[Stingray34]

Yeah, Tomalaris is our very own Ron Burgundy, with possibly a little less self-awareness. But, come to think of it, I am kind of fond of him.

Well, I actually enjoyed that stage: great attacking and suffering and sublime scenery! The youngbloods come to the fore!

Oh, it's so hot...milk was a bad choice!

 

[hrotha]

This officially became hilarious today. When Froome went and dropped Wiggins, I was laughing out loud. When it was like 9 contenders left, including 4 Sky riders, I was just angry, but hey, gotta go with the flow. Enjoy the circus!

 

[mastersracer]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs...lle-la-toussuire-les-sybelles-148-km-16_sport

you should watch it again. Everyone except Wiggins reacts. Pinot is immediately on Froome's wheel, Nibali is closing the gap when Froome shuts it down. Pinot jumps as soon as Froome slows and gets a gap.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Damn.. Even people that barely watch cycling and only a few stages in the tour, think this Froome is cooked up on something... its pretty fun when casuals fans start to get annoyed aswell.

But I most say that what I dislike the most is all the commentators, today I heard stuff like

"Rogers is just very good, its no suprise he makes this lead" LOL

"Froome is such a good rider with a long record" WTF!!!

"Sky is one of the best teams and all their riders are in the tier 1" ..

I think I might need a break

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

1400m/hr VAM for the last 10km apparently.

It's like 1999, just 20% slower...

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Obvious that Sky aren't doping after today. Nothing to see here.

 

[Stingray34]

This officially became hilarious today. When Froome went and dropped Wiggins, I was laughing out loud. When it was like 9 contenders left, including 4 Sky riders, I was just angry, but hey, gotta go with the flow. Enjoy the circus!

The potential of intra-team rivalry is quite high after today. Froome is obviously stronger in the mountains and can match Muttonchops in the TTs.

Let's hope the Kenyan Killer's got a bit of mongrel ambition in him - cmon Froomey, you might be struck down with worms again and never be this strong!

 

[hrotha]

1400m/hr VAM for the last 10km apparently.

It's like 1999, just 20% slower...

Are you saying they can't dope themselves as much as they could before the EPO test? Here, have a cookie.

Now, what happens when you pick a bunch of average riders and dope them to the upper limit of what should be physically possible for a human being? Their numbers are still possible without doping, but they destroy the field, because the pack is not entirely made up of athletes who are almost as good as a human being can get.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Obvious that Sky aren't doping after today. Nothing to see here.

yes very Obvious... Its clear that Cadel and Menchov was the big dopers this tour...


I am certain you are a firm believer in the Parasite revomal exuse from SKY.

 

[maxmartin]

You agree or are you making a mockery out of me? Remember, I 'm no native English speaking.

support means I am with you my friend
I like cycling sports getting popular in UK, but SKY did oh well, just speechless

 

[Marco Pantani]

you should watch it again. Everyone except Wiggins reacts. Pinot is immediately on Froome's wheel, Nibali is closing the gap when Froome shuts it down. Pinot jumps as soon as Froome slows and gets a gap.

I proved you wrong, so don't ask ME to watch it again. When Froome stopped riding he had 15 metres on Nibali and 35 on VdB.
Stop telling nonsense please, everybody can see it.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Good to see everyone is now far too committed to their position for new evidence to move them.

Today's stage was flat out slow. Sky's domestiques rolled in way behind. The final climb was done at a glacial pace by Tour de France standards.

But we all know.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

1400m/hr VAM for the last 10km apparently.

It's like 1999, just 20% slower...

That means there is no dope? You are a fregging naive boy.

Next.

Cannot respond to those new English cycling fans anymore, really, go back to your track thing idiots.

support means I am with you my friend

Ok then, wasnt sure. Thanks matey Going back to track isnt for u then, lol.

 

[hrotha]

Good to see everyone is now far too committed to their position for new evidence to move them.

Today's stage was flat out slow. Sky's domestiques rolled in way behind. The final climb was done at a glacial pace by Tour de France standards.

But we all know.

It was so slow that the leader's group was reduced to some 8 guys with 50 km to go, and 4 OF THEM WERE SKY RIDERS.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

That means there is no dope? You are a fregging naive boy.

Next.

Cannot respond to those new English cycling fans anymore, really, go back to your track thing idiots.

So you're saying the dope doesn't lead to any improvement but they continue to take it anyway. You couldn't make this **** up!

 

[roundabout]

1400m/hr VAM for the last 10km apparently.

It's like 1999, just 20% slower...

It's probably close to 1530 if you remove the flat km.

 

[Stingray34]

Okay, so Sky don't dope like it's 1999, but they do party that way.

I was dreaming when I wrote this, so forgive me if I speak too fast...

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Everyone who has cycled knows 'the second breath'. Nibali had it today, Froome had a fourth, rest my case. Froome is doped to the gills or he is the second best rider I have ever seen, behind Greg that is. Just not possible.

It's comedy Lance all over again.

 

[mastersracer]

Are you saying they can't dope themselves as much as they could before the EPO test? Here, have a cookie.

Now, what happens when you pick a bunch of average riders and dope them to the upper limit of what should be physically possible for a human being? Their numbers are still possible without doping, but they destroy the field, because the pack is not entirely made up of athletes who are almost as good as a human being can get.

This entirely misses the point. Their performance is entirely consistent with two scenarios:

1. they stack the team with good riders and have more depth than other teams (no one really knows what Sky's budget is except that they can afford to double Cav's salary when he moved over).

2. They are taking some unknown substance that no other team has access to. Whatever it is, it is not efficacious enough to raise their performance above pre-EPO performances.

 

[Bala Verde]

Last year's Stage 14: Saint-Gaudens - Plateau de Beille 168km
Vanendert tops Plateau de Beille AVG SPEED: 32.16Km/hr

1 Jelle Vanendert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 5:13:25
2 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 0:00:21
3 Andy Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek 0:00:46
4 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:00:48
5 Rigoberto Uran Uran (Col) Sky Procycling
6 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Saxo Bank Sungard
7 Thomas Voeckler (Fra) Team Europcar
8 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek
9 Jean-Christophe Peraud (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale
10 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar
11 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale
12 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre - ISD 0:01:27

Today: Stage 11: Albertville - La Toussuire - Les Sybelles 148km; AVG SPEED 31.27Km/hr

1 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar 4:43:54
2 Thibaut Pinot (Fra) FDJ-Big Mat 0:00:55
3 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling
4 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Lotto Belisol Team 0:00:57
5 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale
6 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Sky Procycling
7 Chris Anker Sörensen (Den) Team Saxo Bank-Tinkoff Bank 0:01:08
8 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Astana Pro Team 0:01:58
9 Vasili Kiryienka (Blr) Movistar Team 0:02:13
10 Frank Schleck (Lux) RadioShack-Nissan 0:02:23
11 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team
12 Tejay van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team
13 Christopher Horner (USA) RadioShack-Nissan 0:03:53

Today's stage had a faster succession of climbs though; both mid tour; both with a medium mountain stage the day before. Rest day in the 2011 stage was on 11 July, 3 days prior, as compared to this year's stage.

 

[hrotha]

This entirely misses the point. Their performance is entirely consistent with two scenarios:

1. they stack the team with good riders and have more depth than other teams (no one really knows what Sky's budget is except that they can afford to double Cav's salary when he moved over).

2. They are taking some unknown substance that no other team has access to. Whatever it is, it is not efficacious enough to raise their performance above pre-EPO performances.

No, you're missing the point. Even with a wonder drug, you can't dope to go above theoretical human limits, because it'd be too obvious. Look at the flak Contador got at Verbier. Back in the 90s and early 00s, very few people talked about W/kg, but now that figure is widely known.

Your first scenario is extremely unlikely. Froome didn't even had a contract during the 2011 Vuelta. Rogers was a has-been when they signed him. Porte came from a terrible season. All the best riders in the world just happen to be Anglo-Saxons with a sudden burst of performance?

The scenario that makes the most sense is good ol' team doping to put their riders closer to the upper limit of human capability without tripping the wire.

 

[Bala Verde]

This entirely misses the point. Their performance is entirely consistent with two scenarios:

1. they stack the team with good riders and have more depth than other teams (no one really knows what Sky's budget is except that they can afford to double Cav's salary when he moved over).

2. They are taking some unknown substance that no other team has access to. Whatever it is, it is not efficacious enough to raise their performance above pre-EPO performances.

I heard 20M euro

 

[roundabout]

There were probably close to 100 people at the bottom of PdB in the yellow jersey group. Today in Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne there were, uh, 25?

Cycling sure cleaned up fast.

BTW, using VAM I get almost 5.9 W/kg for Froome. Not amazing, but also not glacial.