Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[User Guide]

Shows you've never climbed a Col. The gradient measurements are an average for each kilometer. So 7% average can mean 200 meters at 18%, a 200 flatter section at 10% etc. it's not the one gradiant the entire way.

7% lol! Yeah right Ace. You know it all.

is this where I insert a facepalm? im not an expert on the etiquette of such matters.You did say 14% gradient mountain not ramp not sections ,plus was just getting the willy joke in.Take a chill pill no need for name calling without warrant.

 

[thehog]

shows you've never climbed the last 9kms of Toussuire. After a 4.5% section it has a nice flat section then some 5 and 7% sections until the last few kms at 4%. Nice power climb - and big ring climb for the finish.

stage 11 last climb to La Toussuire

So after 4.5% section it has a nice flat section? You want point where this so called flat section is? and 8.6% is not 5 or 7%.

And last few kilometers are 4%? Are you sure? A few kilometers or did you just mean the last 1km?

http://www.climbbybike.com/profile.asp?Climbprofile=La-Toussuire&MountainID=6880

I might remind you on the profile you imaged the values are rounded. There is no flat section what so ever.

You've never ridden this climb.... joker.

 

[Kender]

your posts recently hog are becoming more and more irrelevant. his figures are alot more accurate that your outrageous claim of 14%

 

[Galic Ho]

Ooooooo a bit of drama!

The girls are fighting!

Everyone likes a bit of girl on girl right?

Here is the crack. The ladies will get to their men. Haven't Sky watched soccer/football. The WAGS always mess team harmony up. Always. Best to keep them to the side.

The girls get catty and nasty over idle jealousy. The men, beat their chests, act like Gorillas and try and throw things. This could be great! Team Sky have a mechanical and we get to see thrown bikes! Brings back memories of Cav. I do wonder though with all the weight loss, whether the Sky riders other than EBH can actually lift up a bike and throw it more than a few feet.

On a serious note. Man, they should really leave Froome alone. He can derail the whole orchestra. He's clearly got the ability to. Mess with his head and watch him go. Go on Mrs Wiggins, get on twitter again. It was designed for people like you to do your life's calling. Take the team harmony down. Go on!

On a more serious note, how many women out there reading this thread would consider dating men with muttonchops, potty mouths and to top it off, the physiques of as Michael Rogers put it, 16 year old boys? Seriously, skinny is the new sexy? I heard fit and strong were the new sexy. I guess all those Facebook fitness pages were lying to me. My bad...I'll have to take note. No more weights mixed with high interval anaerobic work. Damn, maybe Sky really do have something to market to the average wannabe fitness fiend. Sexy, strong and skinny. Gold market right there. Man, they need to bottle it up and sell it.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

1 thing I am certain of,this is the cleanest GT I have seen in a long time maybe ever.

We indeed all have opinions and normaly I respect them, but this... this breaks it for me... Most people including kids!!! are joking about this doping tour and team sky (they call them team Vroom Vroom here) you should guess why..

Its that obivous!!!


But you know what. I think I wont be here much more either, I fear we will go into another US Postal era, just with UK Postal this time, so maybe I should just stick with some other sports for now.

This years tour is a done deal anyway, well atleast the first two position.

 

[Galic Ho]

That was me who said this.

All riders want to know about “enablement”.

It’s a package deal. Salary is generally a given but they want to know about what other “support” they’ll get in terms of medical staff and product selection. Porte would have had offers from several teams. He wanted to leave Saxo at the end of 2010. You’re right he choose Sky because he’d get the benefit of the “full package” and seeing how far he could push his talent. He’ll go shopping again end of 2013 and make sure he gets the same entitlements – exspect him to join GreenEdge with Matt “Del Morel” White making sure he gets the package deal.

If it was only about salary riders would join FDJ on 3 million euros and ride. The reason they go to Sky is they get 1.5million and the full back room deal.

Exactly. The salary is an interesting notion. Plenty of ideas support this. I studied 'contract theory' and what it stipulates certainly applies to what you said. It's the bonus aspects that draw you to a team. Porte is no fool. He chose wisely. Rogers I am more convinced was part of a larger group of former HTC riders poached. In essence he got lucky.

Rogers has had some good performances. Won a very weak Tour of California. Had the Shack not had Floyd spill all the beans the week before hand, Levi and Lance would have spanked him. Then there was his Romandie leaders jersey. He was disgracefully abandoned by all but one HTC rider. Lost the race because of it. Sky won't do that. It's not about Cav exclusively. Their program can guarantee success to many riders.

If they pull the Tour win off unscathed with no sanctions, everything is up for grabs. Literally every race, the longer variety, they can win. Postal had Azevedo, Heras, Bottle and Landis. All talented enough to win a GT on the right program or at least podium. Froome clearly has the goods. Porte? He'll be given the Giro. Almost guaranteed. On the stuff Froome and Wiggins are on, he'd have obliterated Purito, Hesjedal and de Gendt in May. Absolutely destroyed them. Worse, he wouldn't have had to do it by much for people to think it was within the realm of being clean.

Unless something happens to the entire peloton, or Contador and Schleck take it back up a notch or two, Sky will run away with every GT next season. Every single one. Oh and most of the week long stage races.

Long term? Uran is naturally really good. But that's not the aim. Thomas. Geraint Thomas. He is their man. Track to road demon program works. Aussies will not take this lying down. Greenedge will fight back. Anyone want to take a punt on the odds of Rohan Dennis and Jack Bobridge under going their own GC transformations. Do note, the Giros he has raced, Bobridge was second last on GC both years I checked. Plus unlike Wiggins, they are world junior road medallists and champions. Someone better stop this muck before the doping race really goes nuclear. Australia won't take Great Britain making a mockery of other nations. They'll fight back. Porte to mentor these young Aussie guys in a few years if Sky doesn't get busted. Greenedge only need to borrow some doctors and it's a done deal.

 

[Big Doopie]

i don't know if this has already been posted, but this pretty much says it all re: sky as far as i am concerned:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12357/Kimmage-disappointed-in-Wiggins-and-Team-Sky-over-transparency.aspx

 

[simo1733]

Exactly. The salary is an interesting notion. Plenty of ideas support this. I studied 'contract theory' and what it stipulates certainly applies to what you said. It's the bonus aspects that draw you to a team. Porte is no fool. He chose wisely. Rogers I am more convinced was part of a larger group of former HTC riders poached. In essence he got lucky.

Rogers has had some good performances. Won a very weak Tour of California. Had the Shack not had Floyd spill all the beans the week before hand, Levi and Lance would have spanked him. Then there was his Romandie leaders jersey. He was disgracefully abandoned by all but one HTC rider. Lost the race because of it. Sky won't do that. It's not about Cav exclusively. Their program can guarantee success to many riders.

If they pull the Tour win off unscathed with no sanctions, everything is up for grabs. Literally every race, the longer variety, they can win. Postal had Azevedo,
Heras, Bottle and Landis. All talented enough to win a GT on the right program
or at least podium. Froome clearly has the goods. Porte? He'll be given the Giro.
Almost guaranteed. On the stuff Froome and Wiggins are on, he'd have
obliterated Purito, Hesjedal and de Gendt in May. Absolutely destroyed them.
Worse, he wouldn't have had to do it by much for people to think it was within the realm of being clean.

Unless something happens to the entire peloton, or Contador and Schleck take it back up a notch or two, Sky will run away with every GT next season. Every single one. Oh and most of the week long stage races.

Long term? Uran is naturally really good. But that's not the aim. Thomas. Geraint Thomas. He is their man. Track to road demon program works. Aussies will not take this lying down. Greenedge will fight back. Anyone want to take a punt on the odds of Rohan Dennis and Jack Bobridge under going their own GC transformations. Do note, the Giros he has raced, Bobridge was second last on GC both years I checked. Plus unlike Wiggins, they are world junior road medallists and champions. Someone better stop this muck before the doping race really goes nuclear. Australia won't take Great Britain making a mockery of other nations. They'll fight back. Porte to mentor these young Aussie guys in a few years if Sky doesn't get busted. Greenedge only need to borrow some doctors and it's a done deal.

Rohan Dennis is going to Sky if rumours are true.

 

[BroDeal]

I feel bad for Evans. I was never a big fan but he largely won me over with his 2010 season. He was a credible Tour champion. He is struggling against a team of jokers with more suspicion than the blue train of old. It is sickening.

 

[Galic Ho]

You mean anyone who disagrees with your point of view?

You do know what the Clinic is right? Are you suggesting your mind wasn't perturbed by seeing a Sky thread in the Clinic? Because a brand new forumist, with 9 posts at this time, who goes out of his way to label his locations as being the UK, doesn't raise a flag or two?

Welcome to the forum. By all means, do take the time to learn how doping works. Especially blood doping. I'll give you a freebie and one I know you won't debate at all. Nobody here will dispute this man. Not a single sould has on this forum. Ever.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2012/behind-scenes-contador-cas-hearing-michael-ashenden

Then to top off your schooling, I'd suggest reading 'LA to Landis.' Maybe reading Dr Ashenden's other nyvelocity article about LA doping in 1999, then a refresher course in Wiggins personal history and his very public and widely circulated stances to doping. Stances that are now contradictory, even alien, to his current ramblings. Ask a serious question or two in between and extrapolate a rational answer. Then go back, review the 1980s, watch Lemond and Hinault, read about power outputs, and the dynamics behind it. In other words, go over the mathematical measurements. The real data. Quantify it for us. The stuff one cannot fudge. Then compare to the 1990s, LA's reign, the aftermath and finally todays new 'clean era.' You will find, todays times are slower than the EPO era, even Lance's day, but are far from clean. Far from the pre-epo 80s times, when a few steroids and pain reducing drugs were the best on offer. No, you'll find blood vectoring is still all the rage. Add in human growth hormones, with the corticoid steroids, and various blood boosting drugs and weight loss super pills, how could cycling say it's clean? How could the times be on par with the 80s? They couldn't and as shown by the still ridiculous times Sky are doing, they are not clean. Not even close.

One more thing. Lemond and Hinault when asked, gave up their physiological data without question. Dropped it instantaneously along with the quantitative measurements for power output. No modern rider even offers. They instead talk about a desire to do so, a cheap illusionary trick, then do the opposite. They reveal nothing and rely on the gullibility of observes who they pray don't follow up and ask questions. Remind you of anyone? You've heard of one recently...been calling people all kinds of nasty unsavoury names.

 

[Galic Ho]

Rohan Dennis is going to Sky if rumours are true.

Wow. I wonder why? Kid is uber talented. More so than Wiggins. Gosh, with Geraint Thomas and him on the team, they've got long line of wins set up.

Arrggghhh. Yes. Team Sky has had many Aussies there. Many DS's, some left...I wonder why? Journos should push them. They left before the messy stuff was hitting the road. Telling. Very revealing. Plus who can forget the Rupert element.

 

[mastersracer]

So after 4.5% section it has a nice flat section? You want point where this so called flat section is? and 8.6% is not 5 or 7%.

And last few kilometers are 4%? Are you sure? A few kilometers or did you just mean the last 1km?

http://www.climbbybike.com/profile.asp?Climbprofile=La-Toussuire&MountainID=6880

I might remind you on the profile you imaged the values are rounded. There is no flat section what so ever.

You've never ridden this climb.... joker.

do you even know how to read the charts you posted? What is the average gradient between km 10 and 11 (hint: the chart has a 0 under it). The second last km is 4.5% and not 4% - you're right. that .5% difference definitely shows Sky is doped. Nice work detective. 17km climbs with 14% sections and the Tour gives it a cat 1 - there's probably a conspiracy in there too.

 

[thehog]

do you even know how to read the charts you posted? What is the average gradient between km 10 and 11 (hint: the chart has a 0 under it). The second last km is 4.5% and not 4% - you're right. that .5% difference definitely shows Sky is doped. Nice work detective. 17km climbs with 14% sections and the Tour gives it a cat 1 - there's probably a conspiracy in there too.

Sorry mate as I told you the chart you provided us rounding down the numbers.

My chart stands and for your information 10 - 11 is actually 4% and the 12th km is 0.6%.

Nice work Ace.

http://www.climbbybike.com/profile.asp?Climbprofile=La-Toussuire&MountainID=6880

 

[mastersracer]

Sorry mate as I told you the chart you provided us rounding down the numbers.

My chart stands and for your information 10 - 11 is actually 4% and the 12th km is 0.6%.

Nice work Ace.

http://www.climbbybike.com/profile.asp?Climbprofile=La-Toussuire&MountainID=6880

except your charts have different starting points and aren't aligned. The flat section I mentioned is between km 11 and 12 in the linked chart. See how the altitude goes from 1294 to 1288 over that km. Now where are those 14% sections, and - more importantly - how does your hysterics about Froome work out with the power data for this climb? Good luck with that one...

 

[Galic Ho]

You don't need a dope test for all of this. It doesn't pass the straight face test. Its just absurd.

Minus Wiggins and Froome in the Tour it would actually be a very good race.

You've all been robbed at seeing a really good contest. Its simply become a joke.

I've been thinking this since the weekend and subsequently the ITT. Minus the two top Sky riders, this Tour would have been great to watch. A real race. Plus it would have been close.

To those people dropping names like Pinot. Just last week it was Taaramae used to refut the claims Sky aren't doping. 'They were there as well.' True, but are they there every day? Do they put their neck in the wind and ride tempo for everyone? For 50km, like Michael Rogers?

Go and ride a bike. GT racing is about recovery. One day out front, with a bigger effort has to be paid with a lull and drop in your performance somewhere else. Guys who manage to stay on one day, they don't come back the next. Where was Voeckler last night? Where has Rolland been?

Evans should not even try to take time back. He cannot physically do it. Froome and Wiggins have vastly more power to give than he does. Nibali should team up with Evans. Downhill. Get to Brad's ego and try and get him to make a handling error. Push him there. Even if anyone takes time, the Sky boys can roll it all back in and more in the final ITT. They'll be at least 5-6 minutes ahead of third by Paris.

 

[blackcat]

false dichotomy.

tous tout toute dopage GallicHo

 

[Galic Ho]

This is the most ridiculous thing I think I've ever read on this forum and that includes the LA crazies..... you are basically insinuating that Richie Porte is untrustworthy, and therefore guilty of doping, because he comes from Tasmania? Dude stop frothing at the mouth and get a reality check. If you want to bring politics into it then maybe take a look at who owns Team Sky....

If Tassie born Richie Porte is a tree hugging latte sipping muppet, then Rupert Murdoch is the devil incarnate.

That's humour. But yes, Rogers is a well known liar and LA nut hugger. That boy contradicts himself as often as Wiggins does. Fits well with the Sky model. He's a trusted figure. Omerta supporter 101 class. Top of class, Mick Rogers.

Porte, well he only road for Bjarne Riis. I never heard of him before that. Rogers has been well known for donkeys ages. And Richie blabbed on about "learning how to ride a GT from Alberto." Want to hear what another Aussie said about him? Click the link. Not just any Aussie, arguably the foremost anti doping expert in the world. Join the dots, Richie ain't trust worthy. Like most Tasmanians. But you'd know that being an Aussie, wouldn't you? Oh and the snippet about Murdoch...duh, most people know that. Not helping your point. Proving mine. Thanks for making my case for me.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2012/behind-scenes-contador-cas-hearing-michael-ashenden

 

[blackcat]

the climb in the Tasmanian tours, Porte had the record equal with Evans. guess you have some homework to catch up on when not doing post grad studies in accounting theory

 

[blackcat]

Wow. I wonder why? Kid is uber talented. More so than Wiggins. Gosh, with Geraint Thomas and him on the team, they've got long line of wins set up.

Arrggghhh. Yes. Team Sky has had many Aussies there. Many DS's, some left...I wonder why? Journos should push them. They left before the messy stuff was hitting the road. Telling. Very revealing. Plus who can forget the Rupert element.

go and ask Dale Parker what the kids in Adelaide take GH.

 

[thehog]

I've been thinking this since the weekend and subsequently the ITT. Minus the two top Sky riders, this Tour would have been great to watch. A real race. Plus it would have been close.

To those people dropping names like Pinot. Just last week it was Taaramae used to refut the claims Sky aren't doping. 'They were there as well.' True, but are they there every day? Do they put their neck in the wind and ride tempo for everyone? For 50km, like Michael Rogers?

Go and ride a bike. GT racing is about recovery. One day out front, with a bigger effort has to be paid with a lull and drop in your performance somewhere else. Guys who manage to stay on one day, they don't come back the next. Where was Voeckler last night? Where has Rolland been?

Evans should not even try to take time back. He cannot physically do it. Froome and Wiggins have vastly more power to give than he does. Nibali should team up with Evans. Downhill. Get to Brad's ego and try and get him to make a handling error. Push him there. Even if anyone takes time, the Sky boys can roll it all back in and more in the final ITT. They'll be at least 5-6 minutes ahead of third by Paris.

I've been in this situation many a time in a bike race. I've been riding in climbs where they're go so fast I'm at my limit just holding a wheel. You can't attack.

It's the same with Sky. You can't attack early because Rogers and Porte are going at such a speed consistently that you can't get away. Even if you do they don't actually chase you but their speed eventually picks you up.

You're right. The only way is to force them into error. Theres no other way. But to do that you have to take extreme risks and early. Tomorrow would be a good time to do it. When the peloton is still thick with riders which what causes crashes.

Alas Nibs wants to hold onto 3rd so he'll stay with Sky on the remaining stages.

 

[Maxiton]

I feel bad for Evans. I was never a big fan but he largely won me over with his 2010 season. He was a credible Tour champion. He is struggling against a team of jokers with more suspicion than the blue train of old. It is sickening.

Yep. And last year was a credible Tour, the most credible I've seen. The only reason it didn't look like this year, though, was because mutton chops broke his collar bone. Otherwise we'd have been saying then what we're saying now.

Evans should be ****ed off. This was probably his last chance to win. For myself, I feel I was robbed. Robbed of seeing a great Tour like last year, and robbed of the $29.99 I paid NBC Sports to watch it. I haven't watched since Stage 7, and don't plan to watch. I'd rather have my eyes gouged out with empty CERA vials than watch this.

 

[mastersracer]

I've been thinking this since the weekend and subsequently the ITT. Minus the two top Sky riders, this Tour would have been great to watch. A real race. Plus it would have been close.

To those people dropping names like Pinot. Just last week it was Taaramae used to refut the claims Sky aren't doping. 'They were there as well.' True, but are they there every day? Do they put their neck in the wind and ride tempo for everyone? For 50km, like Michael Rogers?

Go and ride a bike. GT racing is about recovery. One day out front, with a bigger effort has to be paid with a lull and drop in your performance somewhere else. Guys who manage to stay on one day, they don't come back the next. Where was Voeckler last night? Where has Rolland been?

Evans should not even try to take time back. He cannot physically do it. Froome and Wiggins have vastly more power to give than he does. Nibali should team up with Evans. Downhill. Get to Brad's ego and try and get him to make a handling error. Push him there. Even if anyone takes time, the Sky boys can roll it all back in and more in the final ITT. They'll be at least 5-6 minutes ahead of third by Paris.

are you even paying attention to this Tour? Rogers is 32 minutes back and Porte is 47 back. I guess your point is that it's impossible to have 2 riders on the same team finish 1 and 2 or be on the podium. Oh wait. That happened last year.

 

[the asian]

I'd love to see Froome on a different team next year. Then we cam have a much better assessment on whether he's one of the biggest dopers or a genuinely talented cyclist.

 

[Galic Ho]

the climb in the Tasmanian tours, Porte had the record equal with Evans. guess you have some homework to catch up on when not doing post grad studies in accounting theory

I've never head that before. Never. Rogers and Evans have two and a half years age difference between them. Heard their figures before.

Heck I've never even heard Evans has been to Tasmania. I know the name of the big hill in Tasmania, but it's not on the tip of my tongue at this moment. It's not easy. 10km @ nearly 10% gradient if I remember.

My point was Evans is the benchmark for the Aussie guys. Heard the comparisons with Rogers many times. Porte? Never heard a thing. You must have missed my point a few pages back. I literally had heard nothing about him till he popped up at Saxo.

It's a lot easier to find stuff on the AIS guys. The track program guys. VO2max figures, FTP numbers when they are 20-22. From what I remember, Porte wasn't even riding at 20.

 

[joe_papp]

I feel bad for Evans. I was never a big fan but he largely won me over with his 2010 season. He was a credible Tour champion. He is struggling against a team of jokers with more suspicion than the blue train of old. It is sickening.

Kinda how I feel too. I don't know if SKY riders are doping or if there's management complicity in a doping program or if this USPSv2.0 is marginal gains all added-up over several years (including changing the medical staff). But rather than allowing Wiggins to embarrass himself, his team and their sponsors spouting off vulgarities in a press conference after being asked about doping, Sky mgmt should've mandated the team accommodate a journo like Kimmage to ensure the transparency that might've neutralized much of the doping suspicion. Instead, they do the opposite, while turning in performances that simply don't look credible to an informed fan.

are you even paying attention to this Tour? Rogers is 32 minutes back and Porte is 47 back. I guess your point is that it's impossible to have 2 riders on the same team finish 1 and 2 or be on the podium. Oh wait. That happened last year.

Unless I misunderstood, it seems you're being disingenuous here... While I agree that it's simply not fair to make declarative statements like "Sky is definitely doping," likewise it's bogus to point to Porte and Roger's GC deficits and suggest they imply...what, exactly? That if they were doping they'd be closer to top-10? They're domestiques, so of course they're going to be down in the standings, doped or not. Right?