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Teams & Riders Team Movistar-thread

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Son of Amsterhammer

Jun 29, 2015
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Re:

AlexNYC said:
I think it’s a combination of Sky having absurdly strong doms and Movistar GC guys not being strong enough. Landa looked bad... Is he hurt? And Quintana... Well, I’m not sure. GT cannot possibly be this much stronger. Tomorrow will tell the tale about him. He sounded pretty bad after the race, so I’m not optimistic.
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Landa is certainly not right from his crash. If he can limit his loses tomorrow, maybe he can still show some fight next week.
 
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Amazinmets87

May 12, 2015
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Moviestar did what the masses asked tactically: Sacrificed a rider with an early attack, forced Sky to work and isolated their GC contenders 5KM from summit.

In retrospect they'd have been better off following the train and either attempting attacks in the last 2KM or so or following attacks for ST or minimal losses. They've been derided for this approach previously but todays stage exemplified why it is optimal.
 
DFA123

DFA123

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Amazinmets87 said:
Moviestar did what the masses asked tactically: Sacrificed a rider with an early attack, forced Sky to work and isolated their GC contenders 5KM from summit.

In retrospect they'd have been better off following the train and either attempting attacks in the last 2KM or so or following attacks for ST or minimal losses. They've been derided for this approach previously but todays stage exemplified why it is optimal.
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Yeah, it looks like they have had the right tactics all along. Be convervative and limit losses in the first two weeks and hope Sky weakens enough in the third week that you can make a decisive attack stick. And it almost worked in 2015. It's just suicide doing anything else against them in this form.
 
DFA123

DFA123

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Red Rick said:
When it's close, tactics matter.

Today they didn't.
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Not sure about. When one team is massively superior, there are still tactics. You have to ride to limit your losses as best as possible, and hope the other team fades later. Movistar didn't do that today. Valverde, for example, could have been invaluable to helping Quintana in those last 4km - if he hadn't been wasted on a speculative attack. Now he has an extra 40 seconds to find somewhere in the final week if Sky do end up fading.
 
Escarabajo

Escarabajo

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Amazinmets87 said:
Moviestar did what the masses asked tactically: Sacrificed a rider with an early attack, forced Sky to work and isolated their GC contenders 5KM from summit.

In retrospect they'd have been better off following the train and either attempting attacks in the last 2KM or so or following attacks for ST or minimal losses. They've been derided for this approach previously but todays stage exemplified why it is optimal.
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+1.
And for a moment it looked like the perfect tactic if you ask me. But it backfired. I give them kudos for trying even if the failed miserably.
 
Koronin

Koronin

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All Movistar did today was shoot themselves in the foot. If you send someone up the road you NEED to have one of the other two attack while it's still USEFUL to attack. The only one to do that was Dumoulin. Today Valverde and Dumoulin are the only two who actually tried something.
From what I saw today, Landa is still hurting from the crash and as far as I'm concerned Quintana doesn't have it anymore.
 
Valv.Piti

Valv.Piti

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Soler did well, all the other 3 kinda disappointed. If Valverde had 2 minutes in the bottom with a little better legs, it might have turned differently out, but Bahrain chased him down, they lost time on the descent and Valverde was unfortunately mediocre as the rest of the three.

On to tomorrow. In retrospect, yes, bad move. Maybe they should have waited for tomorrow.
 
wheresmybrakes

wheresmybrakes

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So going with 3 leaders has not worked out for them so far. Landa knackered with bad back, Quintana not good enough and Valverde doing his own thing and keeping his legs turning ready for the Vuelta. Suppose it was never gonna work. Maybe, Quintana should have done the Giro, Landa the Tour and Valverde, whatever he wants, sending each one with a team that would work together to achieve the highest possible position in that race. It looks like they are at a loss as to what to do once the road starts to go upwards. Such a shame because on paper they have probably the second strongest team in the peleton.
 
Escarabajo

Escarabajo

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wheresmybrakes said:
So going with 3 leaders has not worked out for them so far. Landa knackered with bad back, Quintana not good enough and Valverde doing his own thing and keeping his legs turning ready for the Vuelta. Suppose it was never gonna work. Maybe, Quintana should have done the Giro, Landa the Tour and Valverde, whatever he wants, sending each one with a team that would work together to achieve the highest possible position in that race. It looks like they are at a loss as to what to do once the road starts to go upwards. Such a shame because on paper they have probably the second strongest team in the peleton.
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Discussing the three leaders argument:

I can tell you that there were never three leaders as you have seen. There were two. That is obvious now. Landa was hampered by the crash. I think it was expected that either Landa or Quintana were going to be affected on the Pave. So nothing wrong with having two leaders in that situation. And Quintana does not have the legs.
 
Koronin

Koronin

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It was more like 1 team leader (Valverde) and 2 race leaders (Quintana and Landa). If you listened closely to some of Valverde's comments before the race started, he did make it obvious that he wasn't a race leader. He's truly there to get ready for the Vuelta and Worlds. He may be the first rider ever to actually go to the Tour with the intention of using it to get ready for later season goals as I've not heard of that being done before.
I agree that Valverde should just go stage hunting at this point. It's something he said he wanted to do two years ago and just never got around to it. So now's the perfect time to go for it.
I think Landa has the legs, but is just too injured. Hopefully he recovers before the Pyrenees so he might be able to do something there.
Quintana doesn't have the legs, and I have a feeling that after his performance at the Tour this year his days with Movistar are numbered. I do think Movistar had to give Quintana one final shot at the Tour, but they choose to hedge their bets and I do not think they believe in him anymore. Thus the signing of Landa.
 
roundabout

roundabout

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With Landa being one of only two (I think) active riders from Spain who finished on a GT podium, I think it would have have been silly to not make a move for him then. With Valverde's injury and doubts about Quintana beginning already at that point it made no sense to wait 2 or even 3 years for Landa's next contract to be up.
 
Koronin

Koronin

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roundabout said:
With Landa being one of only two (I think) active riders from Spain who finished on a GT podium, I think it would have have been silly to not make a move for him then. With Valverde's injury and doubts about Quintana beginning already at that point it made no sense to wait 2 or even 3 years for Landa's next contract to be up.
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I think you're correct. Landa and Valverde are the only two currently active Spaniards I can think of that have GT podiums. For that matter I think Soler and Ion Izagirre are possibly the only other two active Spaniards with one week stage race wins that I can think of off the top of my head.
Apparently they've wanted Landa for awhile and basically finally were able to get him. Yeah, having no idea if or how Valverde would return and Quintana had already fallen out of favor with management it made perfect sense to bring Landa in.
 
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rlntlssly

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Koronin said:
For that matter I think Soler and Ion Izagirre are possibly the only other two active Spaniards with one week stage race wins that I can think of off the top of my head.
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I think Luis León Sánchez is the only other.
 
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rlntlssly

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Koronin said:
rlntlssly said:
Koronin said:
For that matter I think Soler and Ion Izagirre are possibly the only other two active Spaniards with one week stage race wins that I can think of off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
I think Luis León Sánchez is the only other.
Click to expand...

He may. If there is one more, you're right it would be him.
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It depends what you're counting as a one-week stage win. Dani Moreno (Vuelta a Burgos), Rubén Plaza (Vuelta a Castilla e Leon/Vuelta a la Comunidad Valenciana) and Markel Irizar (Ruta del Sol) also have lower-ranked stage race victories.
 
Koronin

Koronin

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Re: Re:

rlntlssly said:
Koronin said:
rlntlssly said:
Koronin said:
For that matter I think Soler and Ion Izagirre are possibly the only other two active Spaniards with one week stage race wins that I can think of off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
I think Luis León Sánchez is the only other.
Click to expand...

He may. If there is one more, you're right it would be him.
Click to expand...
It depends what you're counting as a one-week stage win. Dani Moreno (Vuelta a Burgos), Rubén Plaza (Vuelta a Castilla e Leon/Vuelta a la Comunidad Valenciana) and Markel Irizar (Ruta del Sol) also have lower-ranked stage race victories.
Click to expand...


I was thinking more WT races. Ion Izagirre won Poland and Soler won Paris-Nice. However, to get more Spaniards who have won one week races you do have to go to smaller races. I think this also shows the state of cycling in Spain with the current generation between the one of Valverde and Contador and the one of Soler that is coming up now. However, it's unlikely they'll have another generation like the Valverde/Contador one again.
 
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